schippsmom Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 :Dog_run: Here's the problem...Re-Run and my son Allen are best buddies about 95% of the time, however the past few weeks have been strange. We can all be sitting in the living room watching TV and out of the blue Re will start growling at Allen. It's his "this is my house and you don't belong here" growl. He gets worse when he is sitting on my lap or Scott's. He hasn't bitten Allen (Scott & I have decided that if that happens he will be put down, no second chance), but he seems like he is ready to at times. When Scott and I aren't home, they are best friends, normal play, all is right in Re-Run's world. As soon as we are all in the living room, only once in my bedroom, it's like Re doesn't know who Allen is. I have noticed that it's usually dim in the room when it happens. This has us all upset and we're not sure what to do. Now that I think of it, there was a power struggle when Re-Run was about six months old. He seemed to out grow that and it wasn't growling, just barking and grabbing Allen's jeans. We have gone back to Allen controlling Re's food and snacks but tonight as soon as Re ate his dinner he came in the living room sat on my lap, got up, went to the door, Allen went to let him out and Re growled at him. Every time Re growls at Allen, Allen will pull his hand back rather quick and look to me or Scott for help. I think I've explained everything and I try to check back often so if anyone has questions, I'll try to reply soon. Thanks everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokipups Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Dominance/posession aggression, get the dog off of your lap and on the floor at all times, immediately. NILIF big time, no toys, meals, affection without doing something to earn it. Everytime Rerun is up on your lap, you're elevating his position in the pack, literally. Plus, by being on your lap, he's treating you as his most prized possession and is seeing your son as a threat. The dog needn't be put down if he did snap at your son, especially for something that you've unwittingly fostered by giving him better status in the family than he deserves. A good dose of hardcore NILIF should straighten out his snotty attitude fairly quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 GO Lokipops... they need an attitude adjustment. you need to provide it as Alpha. NILIF should take care of it. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I agree. No more lap, couch, or bed for Re-Run. Maybe have Allen work with him on his commands as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 remind me again, schippsmom, how old is your son allen? when re-run is growling what is allen doing (ie looking at re, minding his own, eating, sitting where re sits?) my gut feeling is that re is exhibiting some resource guarding behavior and you and hubby are the resources he chooses to guard. i think he might also view allen as more of a peer. nilif, or say please, is a good method to remind him what is his place. don't forget tho to address specifically these instances of guarding. have allen sit across the room and see how re reacts. if he is calm praise and treat him. have allen move closer and closer with lots of treats for calm behavior and over time hopefully re will accept that allen can be close to mom or dad. always treat him for good calm behavior when allen is around. does he guard anything else? toys, food, bed? does he ever get rude with the adults or other adult guests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schippsmom Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 Before I answer questions, I want to make it clear that I will not put re down for snapping, only a bite. If I can't trust him around the kids, that's not good. Hopefully that will not have to happen. Let's start with tonight's behavior-Allen (13) came up behind me to get the newspaper and re growled. Allen made kissing noise to him and as re was growling at Allen he was also kissing Allen. :o Not sure what that was about. What is NILIF? Re only guards us, no toys, or food. Normally Re is fine with Allen, they are playing now, so they can be in the same room. Allen started yesterday making him "work" for what he wants. He is basically re's lifeline right now. Allen is also the only person in the house who gives re people food, a very rare treat. I'm getting confused right now, my daughter ( soon to be 16) just got home and we are interrogating her. New friends, some are pot smokers and there is a 19 year old that really likes her. UGH!!! I know what I wanted to ask. Is Re-run allowed to sleep with Allen on his bed? What we do is have his crate in our room, he will fall asleep in there and sometime during the night he comes up on the bed with us. We will move his crate into Allen's room but is he allowed up with Allen?? I need to finish with Steph now, thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schippsmom Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 :Dog_run: Ahhh, I get it. So basically Re-Run should think Allen is god. Boy is gonna like that. I'm going to assume that Allen is to be in controll of everything for Re. We shall see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 sorry more questions: do you or your husband play with re? when allen and re play who initiates that play? allen should always initiate play. how do they play? there should be no mouth play or 'play' biting in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schippsmom Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 :Dog_run: Sometimes Scott and I play with Re, but mostly he plays with Steph and Allen. There is no play biting allowed. Allen stops playing immediately if Re "bites" We had that problem when Re was younger. Most of the time Allen will initiate play, it's usually at the same time every day so Re knows when it should start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 so allen is starting to train with re a little bit right? if the only interaction re and allen have is play then in re's mind allen is nothing more than an overgrown play toy. even if he just makes re work simple stuff (sit down stay) for 5-10 minutes a day this will help elevate allen's pack status. does re know any tricks? that's one fun thing kids can do is pick a trick and try to teach it (under your watchful eye of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Very VERY good advice already, but I just wanted to add another item. Some people do not like "tug of war" because it can create possession/dominance issues over an item. This is true IF the dog wins the item. Tug of war is perfect for elevating confidence and demoting them as well. Have your son play tug with the dog, but the dog NEVER wins. Get the dog good and into it and then have Allen stop all motion and tell him to sit and out (or whatever command you use to tell re to drop it). the best way to deal with these things is to combine as many aspects of demotion as possible. assuming that he sees you and your husband as superior to himself, you can (and should) scold re when he growls at your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 i have to disagree with jweissg on the tug thing. if you are already having problems -- i think tug is a bad idea. don't get me wrong i think tug is a great game but there are some pre-requistes and very structured rules and it goes beyond 'never letting the dog win.' the dog must give freely (all things even high value) reliably before you can play - this probably needs work. owner must always initiate play. play ceases immediately if teeth make contact with human skin or if dog gets too aroused. if re already thinks he is higher in status he may play rougher and rougher and rougher to keep his status -- we don't want that. sometimes too kids have a hard time identifying and enforcing the rules. heck most of the time adults don't enforce the rules let alone a kid. for now i would say have allen work on training and say please. let him walk the dog (parents supervise) but hold off on tug. that's just my advice use it how you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 on second thought, I am going to have to agree with Rott. I may have jumped the gun a little bit and I just recommended what I do with my dog. This may not work in your case and especially with children involved--I didnt even think about the situation having your son enforce relatively strict rules with the dog. scratch my advice and maybe save it for later! Joseph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schippsmom Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 :Dog_run: No growling or today and Re went to Allen for dinner, I guess he catches on quick when it comes to food. We will be at the cabin for the weekend, we'll see how it goes there. Thanks everyone for the great advise, hopefully this will do the trick :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 actually, the tug is a good thing, providing the dog never wins. it demotes them quickly, and thourougly. he must NEVER win however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schippsmom Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 :Dog_run: I would be afraid to let Allen try that, I'm sure Re would win once or twice. At least until Allen got serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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