Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='K']I deleted a reply from NORMA...not you..unless you are now admitting you ARE Norma??? :-? :[/quote] If you search with "norma" it says she posted on this thread, but the post is missing. I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Another nice post Ravyn... She said she wasnt gonna come back. Wanna put bets down on how long it will take for her to return? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='Ravyn']If Norma's not you, how did you even discover that? I've been following this thread pretty closely and I had no idea she even posted, let alone was deleted. So how did you come by that fact so quickly? [/quote] She knows about it because I told her. It was posted long before the thread became a flame fest. Had V&M seen it, maybe it would have saved all of you the aggravation I guess K didn’t want V&M or anyone else to see it. I don’t know what she was afraid of. How much damage could that post do? This is the post that was deleted. Hopefully it will stay long enough for all to see this time. [quote] You won’t have any success trying to educate these people here. They are beyond help. They are set in their ways and no matter how much sense you make and how logical your points and arguments are, you will get better result talking to a wall then to these close-minded ignorant bigots. No matter what you say, you will never stand up to their unrealistic expectations. I tried to educate them and open their eyes to the real world. I gave them a rare glimpse in to the mind of a REAL breeder and got kick out for it. They don’t want to know the truth. They don’t want their bubble burst. They don’t want to know how the real world works. They rather stick their head in the sand and pretend their way is the only way. Ignorance is bliss, and they are as blissful and they come. If you will continue, you will surely get banned too.” [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 A glimps in the mind of a REAL BREEDER?? What kinda crock of crap is that?? REAL BREEDERS dont throw two dogs together just cause they like their dogs. REAL BREEDERS dont breed for money. REAL BREEDERS do health tests. REAL BREEDERS have contracts. REAL BREEDERS make sure their pups go to good homes. REAL BREEDERS know what to put their pups on to keep them clean. REAL BREEDERS dont breed pups under 2 years of age. You guys are the ones who need educating. Not the people here at Dogo. It is because of people like you that the shelters are overrun. You know what... You all need to stop attacking K. She is a great mod and what she chooses to delete is right on. I agree with her in deleting what you trolls have to say. I really dont think we need the likes of you people coming here, getting ticked off and attacking us for giving our opinions, then turn around and say we are the ones doing the attacking. I think you all come here to get everyone stirred up. You all know how BYBs are viewed here, you know when you are one of them and you know how people here will react. If you all dont like it here... Get the hell out. Noone is forcing, or even asking you to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='banished'] This is the post that was deleted. Hopefully it will stay long enough for all to see this time. [quote] You won’t have any success trying to educate these people here. They are beyond help. They are set in their ways and no matter how much sense you make and how logical your points and arguments are, you will get better result talking to a wall then to these close-minded ignorant bigots. No matter what you say, you will never stand up to their unrealistic expectations. I tried to educate them and open their eyes to the real world. I gave them a rare glimpse in to the mind of a REAL breeder and got kick out for it. They don’t want to know the truth. They don’t want their bubble burst. They don’t want to know how the real world works. They rather stick their head in the sand and pretend their way is the only way. Ignorance is bliss, and they are as blissful and they come. If you will continue, you will surely get banned too.” [/quote][/quote] It is really sad when a post is getting deleted because of who posted it rather then what it said. It tells you volumes about the true mentality in here. I see now that most of what was said in that post was right on. By deleting that post, you validated everything she said about you. What are you afraid of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Real breeders prove their dogs and breed to maintain the breed... Dont get defensive just cause I put in the cardinal rule to not breed a dog under the age of two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='Kiwi']In addition to that, REAL BREEDERS don't fight their dogs.[/quote] Nor breed a bitch under two years, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='Kiwi'][quote name='Hmmmm']Real breeders prove their dogs and breed to maintain the breed... Dont get defensive just cause I put in the cardinal rule to not breed a dog under the age of two...[/quote] Yes, I find it halirious you take the moral high ground in critisising my breeding practices (and others) when you admit to fighting your dogs. Hypocritical much? At least none of my dogs have died from such practices. Furthermore I am not ignorant enough to suggest I know all there is about breeding (unlike some people here) - especially when it comes to other breeds. But what I have learnt and understand there is no cut and dried rule for age of breeding. Some breeds are better off being bred earlier and retired earlier, some later and retired later. I have done my research and am happy with all of my decisions.[/quote] :lol: Thats pretty funny. Nothing about what I am saying is hypocritical. I prove my dogs and breed them the way they have been and are meant to be bred. Make whatever excuses you want for breeding an underage dog. I could care less about your excuse, or "reasons". You are just trying to turn it around on me. Im not a byb, but you can think what you want. I could care less. All you are doing is the same thing the other bybs who have been here do... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Like I said.. I could care less. Youre a BYB to me. Anyone breeding young dogs is, regardless of breed. I donate a lot of time and a lot of money to help my breed. I fight BSL. I never claimed to be an expert on breeding but I do know the ins and outs. You dont, as you have proven already. You bred a young dog and are AGAIN attacking me for my breeding practices. :lol: I was taught by the best APBT breeders, thats what I have. I was taught by people who have bred dogs their entire lives and are well respected for it, as am I. But... I am done defending myself to the likes of you. You are wrong for breeding a young dog. Continue to attack me if it makes you feel better about what you did and if it makes you feel right about your BYB breeding practices. You are cracking me up as much as those other BYBs and their arguements. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='Kiwi']I think if Hmmmm is allowed to stay on this board (Which btw I have no problems with, I believe as long as someone isn't being downright abusive with their postings, they should be allowed to state their opinions) so should Norma etc. [EDIT] Typos whoops :oops:[/quote] You should be banned as well then. You are a BYB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 :lol: I dont care why you elected to breed her at such a young age. There is NO reason, or excuse, to breed a dog under 2. Titles dont matter if you are breeding a PUPPY. there are people here who know who I am, where I am, and everything else. just cause you dont know doesnt mean crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='Kiwi'][quote name='Hmmmm'][quote name='Kiwi']I think if Hmmmm is allowed to stay on this board (Which btw I have no problems with, I believe as long as someone isn't being downright abusive with their postings, they should be allowed to state their opinions) so should Norma etc. [EDIT] Typos whoops :oops:[/quote] You should be banned as well then. You are a BYB.[/quote] Pot calling kettle..... :lol:[/quote] Ummm yeah... Wanna take a vote on that? Lets see who the BYB is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I definitely dont agree to breeding a bitch under 2 years. I dont exactly agree to fighting dogs, but thats another issue. I know Hmmmm's dogs are healthy whereas, Kiwi, your defense to some of my questions for you were how lines in the Bull Terrier have problems because of health issues. Im glad theyre not being bred but why would you involve yourself in a breed full of so many problems? I dont know why anyone would want to bring dogs into the world knowing that their chances of serious health problems will be very high. :-? To me, thats very irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Hmmmm fights dogs???????? And this board is fine with this???????? Unbelievable!!!!!! Hmmmm, you have some nerve saying all the crap you have to me! You purposefully hurt dogs (my breeding w/o tests does not mean my dogs come up with disorders. It just means there is a possibility). Fighting to to rip apart dogs and one usually ends up [u]dead[/u]![b]You [/b]break the law.[i] My breeding is not illegal!!!! [/i] You had no right to flame me the way you have. You are a criminal! And to the others on this board, now you really have no room to chastize me when you allow members into illegal activity. <shaking head> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [quote name='newfiemom']Neom, do you know the story behind Norma?[/quote] I did come here in time to catch that thread right before she was gone, so I do know about her. From what I remember she did have several titled dogs and used to show. She said she tested all her dogs before breeding and did not breed her dogs before 2 years. If I remember correctly she had labs, so I highly doubt she bred them for fighting. From what I gather, the main issues you had with her was that no matter what she said or did, you couldn’t get pass the numbers, and the fact that she didn’t force her buyer to stay in contact with her. I can see how that would raise red flags in your head if that meet your definition of a BYB, but the way I see it, that by itself does not automatically mean a BYB or puppy miller. Just because you may not be able to properly take care of and maintain 20 dogs and 12 litters, it doesn’t mean no one can. For all we know she has a whole crew helping her out. I also noticed that many of you had a problem with her abrasive defiance, and disrespect of your believes which is no surprise considering she was under attack and you made up your mind of her from the get go. I think what happened is you superimposed every stereotype you ever had about BYBs and saw her as the embodiment of the ultimate BYB that you all heard about. She never had a chance. I am a strong believer in the “To each its own” philosophy, so I am not quick to judge. I tend to take a more optimistic view of people and give them the benefit of the doubt when I do not know all the facts. This philosophy may come back to bite me in the butt, but so far it works for me. [quote name='newfiemom'] If Norma and others like her were allowed to post on this board, I would leave and never come back.[/quote] [quote name='Kiwi'] I think if Hmmmm is allowed to stay on this board (Which btw I have no problems with, I believe as long as someone isn't being downright abusive with their postings, they should be allowed to state their opinions) so should Norma etc. [/quote] [quote name='Kiwi'] To me you ARE a BYB, pure and simple and to criticize myself and this other person is nothing short of ridiculous. [/quote] [quote name='Hmmmm'] You should be banned as well then. You are a BYB.[/quote] [quote name='Kiwi'] So what are you hiding dog fighter? Why won't you post details about your kennel here? :D[/quote] LOL, It is no fun when the shoe is on the other foot, is it. Careful Kiwi and Hmmmm. You too may suffer Norma’s faith. :lol: No wonder this forum has only 600 members. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roflt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZACXAtogRb3WpLbhXWCnAnExfS7pKSdGwqGmTGzQ98sbVz1o*if9uG1Eg*6BzxII6DiTkkO0RpWgIUC*nvBREQdNaWsZnXVv338eDfeqwj3vmwopJPh5lWXPMCZPEm!W9S8xwpodW586ZAOzLcWu0w/smiley%20popcorn.gif?dc=4675474715663468752[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Her username is Hmmmm, not Hummmm, you idiot. :roll: And we dont allow her to do anything.... its her choice, as is your breeding, why would either of you stop just because people are against it. The ignorance in your post just shows how little you know about dog fighting. Anyway, not everyone here agrees with what she does. Read around a little and youd see that. BTW, her breeding isnt illegal either... its the fighting that illegal, smart one! :D Hmmmm may be a criminal but you are too in my eyes. More so than her. At least she cares about the importance of proper breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Sorry you posted before me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Kiwi, Im glad you are trying to reduce health problems in the BT and I knew that before... but on the way breeders are producing unhealthy dogs. Eh, I have more to say about this but it kinda goes into how Im against all the breeding of breeds that arent needed for anything other than companionship. Again, I think its irresponsible to be breeding just for companionship when the pet overpopulation is such a HUGE problem, but Id also rather see you breeding than people like Norma and other BYBs/puppymillers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Popcorn for lunch? :o No fair! Y'all can't stop now! [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQAZA4AfeDuPoHbo*VO*k6YkVsjsui1KYGfqoPb3PGet0mEYsc71EksSfApXuugKjHdt1Ms4!cD27pQV8nrn8TFNb0XeFc8lTBmdBCeWVWF65jM!ZBL9loqbVIIVeUInEUjJgy6E0esA7uv6o*Cuxg/crying%20girl.gif?dc=4675436072349453090[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 [quote]The best we can do at the moment is to know your lines inside out and to screen your dogs for every problem possible, if this continued for enough generations hopefully some of the problems will die out. [/quote] I thought you said you don't test for hips since its not a problem in the breed? And personally I'd take one of Hmmm's healthy, great tempered, extremely well bred pups in a split second over M&V's thrown together pups any day. I may not always agree with what she does but I know any of her pups will be the best you can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Well, you may not have the same problem as we do in the US, but here, it would take a while for there to be no companion dogs. As soon as the population is under control then Im all for it.... until then, I say no. Just my opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 [quote name='__crazy_canine__']Her username is Hmmmm, not Hummmm, you idiot. .[/quote] A typo. Big deal. [quote name='__crazy_canine__']The ignorance in your post just shows how little you know about dog fighting.her breeding isnt illegal either... its the fighting that illegal.[/quote] Exactly! I am not a criminal element. I am not into illegal activity! However, I know enough. [quote name='__crazy_canine__']At least she cares about the importance of proper breeding.[/quote] Proper breeding?? My behind. She breeds aggressive fighting dogs!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 [quote name='newfiemom']My problem with the Norma thing Neom is how the h*** can you evaluate the product of the breeding by producing 12 litters a year. How is the bettering the breed? How is not having working titles preserving what they were intended to to? How do you know that you are breeding breed standard if you don't show your dogs in conformation? My God, how the h*** can you defend these actions? A good breeder will want to know about the welfare of their dogs, not take the money and run. But hey, to each his or her own right?[/quote] I am not necessarily defending her. I do however agree with some of what she said. I believe that the best way to improve a breed and find out about problems that may lurk in the genes is through multiple breeding of what works, evaluating the results and breeding the best offspring and repeat again and again until you get what you want. Having 12 litters a year will only speed up the process and will give you a good idea of what your line produces. She did say most of her dogs are the offspring of her champions. Being the optimist that I am, I choose to believe that through selective breeding, she kept and bred only the superior pups she produced. In that context, numbers are very important. As for working ability, not everyone is a hunter. IMHO these abilities mean nothing to most these days. How many people you know really need hunting dogs? I do my hunting in the supermarket. How many people have a flock of sheep in their back yard that needs to be herded or guarded? how many people need their dogs to go in to burrows to catch or flash vermin? How many people you know need a dog to bait bulls? I am sure many do have the needs for these abilities, but the fact is, the vast majority do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 hey since this is a breeding thread....and this question just popped in my head.. Hmmmmm, do you health test your dogs? for like hips and elbows and stuff? just wondering cause i have yet to find anyone breeding true APBT's that does....im sure they are out there, i just personally have never found one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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