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Reporting Neighbors (I did it)


Guest Mutts4Me

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Guest Mutts4Me

I'm so stressed out right now, I can't believe it's come to this.

I've posted before about my neighbor's Rott mix that they leave tied out for hours and hours, and how the poor puppy barks incessantly and just wants so badly to go in. Well, it's gotten worse.

Not the barking. Them. The puppy is tied to two cinder blocks next to their garage, so he can go into the garage if he wants. However, he has a door a St. Bernard could easily walk through, so it doesn't do much in the way of keeping cold air out/warm air in. I don't think the garage is insulated, so the poor puppy is in a wide open space. On concrete, no bedding.

This was bad before. Sad. It was chilly, and sometimes it was rainy, and the puppy didn't have much protection. But now it's cold and snowy, and nothing has changed. He's still out there from the time they leave in the morning to the time they get home in the evening. Sometimes they don't even get him right away. He does sleep indoors.

I've thought about it quite a bit. We're 99% certain that they will KNOW it was us who called on them. I've always gotten cold feet, squeamish. But I think I'm through.

TODAY I looked over at the howling puppy (6 months old) and saw he had a new collar. Stunned, I looked closer. [b]He was tied out with a prong collar.[/b] Unsure if they could be that dumb, I went over there. Because there was snow, I went by road and walked up their driveway so as not to leave footprints :oops: The puppy was so happy to see me, and I pet him and gave him a Meaty Bone. Definitely wearing a prong.

So, hoping that there was some kind of bedding I couldn't see through the giant hole in the wall, I looked into his garage. There was no bedding, just concrete, which I'm sure was very cold. And I looked at his two bowls, which we can see from our window and just assumed meant he had food and water, and I found both bowls empty! Well no, one was 1/4 full of ice. Solid ice, so it didn't just freeze over since they left. And no food. None.

I was so mad when I went home, just shaking. I went online and found Michigan's tethering laws:

[quote]MICHIGAN COMPILED LAWS
CHAPTER 750. MICHIGAN PENAL CODE
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE
CHAPTER IX. ANIMALS

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Report them. It will be up to AC to determine whether or not the concerns are valid (and it also depends on whether or not you have competent AC officers). I was just watching a local newsblurb where our area AC officers are going to be out scouting around for dogs left out in the cold without proper provisions (we're having some overnight hard freezes) and they're going to be confiscating dogs and issuing fines. Your neighbors won't necessarily [u]know[/u] you called even if they suspect it. Could be an AC officer that spotted the dog tied out in the cold with no food and water and in a prong collar, you know? Even if they confronted you with it, you could always become their "ally" by "helping" them learn how to take better care of that dog and what to do to keep those pain in the *ss AC people off their butts. *wink*wink*nudge*nudge*

My own backdoor neighbors are forbidden to even own a dog (could be just Pit Bulls, but I think any dog) and AC told us to report to them any time we see dogs in their yard. A couple of times a year, we'll see several Pit Bull puppies in a small pen in their yard and all it takes is a call to AC and within hours the puppies will be confiscated.

I really think you'll sleep better if you report them and let AC sort it out. If AC does absolutely nothing, you will at least have the very small consolation of knowing you tried to help.

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Guest Mutts4Me

[quote name='kendalyn']I'd report them. Do you really care what these people think anyway?[/quote]

That's not it.

The situation is complicated by a couple things. First and foremost by the fact that we have a couple (2 regular, a few now-and-thens) stray cats who come down to visit us. We feed them, and the one who is friendly is much loved by the whole family; we all take turns going out and playing with him. We're afraid for their safety.

When the kittens were younger (it's a mom and her litter before the one we stole), they would go next door and rip up their garbage bags on their back porch. Then one time, their puppy came onto our porch while the 2 regulars were there, and he got a good swipe across the face (and howled like a banshee for it). I don't think they appreciate the kitties very much, and I'm afraid if they suspect we called on them, they'll do something to the cats - either call AC to take them away, or take matters into their own hands.

Also, the little girl who lives there used to come over all the time and ask if my mom could "come out and play." How sad is that? But when she could, my mom would go out and do crafts with her. Mom even bought her some of the crafts they do for a Christmas present. So if they hate us, they're not going to let the girl come over. I wouldn't mind that, lol, but it'd be sad for the girl since she's all by herself and expected to amuse herself so often.

So no, I don't "care what they think," but I do care how they'll take it.

Thanks for everyone's support. Right now, someone is actually home still, so I'll wait until they're gone to call so that if someone [i]does[/i] come out, they'll see the puppy the way he spends 8-10 hours of his day :-?

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A suggestion if you decide not to risk ticking them off is, maybe suggest to your mom that a good craft when the little girl comes over to play would be a Xmas bed for Puppy (You could probably make one pretty cheap with some fleece, that seems to always be on sale at my local fabric store, at least). That way the puppy will at least have some place to snuggle. Or maybe a Nylon collar and some super easy cross-stitching the dogs name, to put in place of the prong collar? It's a sneaky way of getting the dog better treatment, teaching the kid at least about taking care of the puppy, and your mom might be able to pump the kid for info about any further problems with the puppy's care.

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Guest Mutts4Me

Oh, I'm definitely reporting them. Unfortunately, someone was home most of the day, although the dog was left outside (I think it's [i]his[/i] dog and [i]she[/i] has no interest in it). I need to call when the dog is unattended so that a) they can see it in its normal state and b) so I can wander over and be the "helpful" neighbor who's just trying to help (but also answer any questions honestly and bluntly).

Boosie, that's a nice idea, but it's not going to work. The little girl (who is all of 5) isn't at this house very often at all, so teaching her the proper way to care for a puppy isn't going to do it any good. A soft bed would be nice for him, but it's not going to change the fact that he's in a wide open, venty garage in below freezing weather. Up until yesterday, the puppy DID have a nylon collar. I see him everyday, and yesterday when I saw the prong, I flipped out. Oh, and umm, I can't cross stitch anything, let alone "Jagermeister" ;) Thank you for your idea though, and I wish something nice like that would work.

What I'm going to do is contact the Humane Society first. If they adopted the puppy from the HS, the HS has the right to check up on the pup (I think). Even if they don't have law-enforcement abilities like AC, getting a note (or a talking-to) from a HS person might scare them. I don't necessarily want them to get in trouble, I just want them to wise up and do something for that puppy.

If the HS can't or won't come out, I will contact AC, which I believe can write citations or at least "official" notices. I don't think they'd confiscate the puppy, but rather tell them what they need to do for it and give them a time frame in which to do it. I wouldn't want him confiscated by AC, which is an incredibly high-kill shelter with breed restrictions (they don't adopt out pits, but I'm not sure about untrained, hyper Rottweiler mixes).

Either way, I'm going to ask that they please, if questioned about it, say that they were driving by and saw a puppy tied out on a prong. That alone is illegal, and they could therefore stop and check out his conditions on that basis. Ultimately, I can't control what they're going to feel and who they're going to blame, I can just try to be polite in whatever situation and hope for the best.

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I agree with your decision. Ask them to say they saw the dog on a drive-by, and explain to them that you are afraid for your own pets if these people get PO'd....tell them about the little girl too. I have serious concerns about her (from the first time you mentioned her) because it is not normal for a 5 year old child to seek out the attention of neighbor adults.

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Guest Mutts4Me

I did it.

I just called the Humane Society. Fortunately they did take my complaint and do have an investigator on staff to check out complaints. I didn't want to resort to Animal Control.

I think they're sensitive to the neighbor issue, because one of the first questions she asked was "is the dog visable from the driveway?" which makes me think they're used to using the "driving by" excuse. She also did say the report would be anonymous (though I could put my name on it if I wanted...). So hopefully they'll handle it with tact.

I don't think she was sure what I meant when I said "he's tied out with a prong collar," so I kept saying "a prong choke collar," and she edited her report to say "a choke collar with prongs." I was adament about the "choke" part because it's illegal to tether a dog with a choke collar. I also explained the lack of bedding, food, and water, plus the long periods of times the Puppy is outside.

So cross your fingers that this all turns out okay, please.

And... if they do report the strays... does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should say? Should I claim them as my outdoor cats (maybe say they were feral and never learned to live indoors - which is true), or should I tell the truth and say they're pretty much strays, although they kinda sorta belong to an elderly couple down the road? It's not illegal to have outdoor cats, plus they do have waterproofed, covered boxes on our front porch that they sometimes use. And we sometimes try to let them in. I don't know, ideas?

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what is their opinion of ferals? Here, they have a feral policy, where HS will catch them, neuter them and then release them back to their area's.
They understand they dont make good pets, but once sterilized they cant breed. There are also some places that have outfitted barns and sheds and such with straw, and water, and some food, although most of these cats hunt the small wildlife like gophers and field mice that are in abundance here.

I would try to find out their feral policies. Other places arent as humane as here, and will catch and euthanize them. If thats the case I'd just say
strays that you look out for, and leave ferals out of it.

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Guest Mutts4Me

If they'd alter and release them, I'd be all for it. We've tried to catch the momma c@ numerous times without success. I have looked into it, and we don't have any TNR programs around here, but that doesn't mean the HS doesn't do it, I guess. I guess we'll wait and see.

No one from the HS came out today. I sat so that I could see out the window. I just hope they come when no one's home. I'll let everyone know if/when they do.

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Think about this rationally for a sec. Let's say the enimal control people listen to your complaint and take the dog to the shelter. Lets say this dog doesn't get adopted fast enough so they euthanize it.

At least the dog is sleeping in doors and it seems that it probably does spend some time with the family when they are around. Is he mostly tethered outside when nobody is home? Do they have a fence?

You might think you're doing the dog a favor but in the end it's possible that you're really making things worse than they are.

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[quote name='Edgar']Think about this rationally for a sec. Let's say the enimal control people listen to your complaint and take the dog to the shelter. Lets say this dog doesn't get adopted fast enough so they euthanize it.

At least the dog is sleeping in doors and it seems that it probably does spend some time with the family when they are around. Is he mostly tethered outside when nobody is home? Do they have a fence?

You might think you're doing the dog a favor but in the end it's possible that you're really making things worse than they are.[/quote]

Sometimes a humane death is the best thing.
Rather the dog be humanely euthanized than live a life without love and comfort, and he would probably slowly starve to death or die of thirst, or even freeze to death.

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[quote]Think about this rationally for a sec. Let's say the enimal control people listen to your complaint and take the dog to the shelter[/quote]

The dog will not be taken to the shelter based on the complaint unless the people flat out refuse to comply with city bylaws when the agent comes to speak with them. Chances are they won't even get a fine. They will be told what the bylaws are and why they are the way they are and possibly even given some helpful advice. Its really no big deal.

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Guest Mutts4Me

[quote name='Edgar']Think about this rationally for a sec. [/quote]

I've been thinking about this rationally for a couple months now, thank you. Now that it's hitting below-freezing weather, I was forced to make a decision that I rationally believe is the correct one. I do appreciate your concern, and those are things I've definitely considered multiple times myself, but I remain convinced that I did the right thing by calling.

BUT, I did not call Animal Control. I called the Humane Society, which is not affiliated with any government offices and is a low-kill shelter, as opposed to AC, which is a high-kill shelter. I doubt that the Humane Society has the ability to seize an animal unless the situation is so urgent that the police have to be brought in. What I'm almost certain the Humane Society will do (if they ever get their butts out here) is leave the owners a Notice telling them either a) what they're doing wrong or b) to call them so they can tell them what they're doing wrong. And they'll probably give them a week or so to get those things done (put his nylon collar back on, put a doghouse with bedding in the garage, and make sure he has water), then check back. Basically, they'll SCARE them into taking care of that puppy.

[quote]At least the dog is sleeping in doors and it seems that it probably does spend some time with the family when they are around. Is he mostly tethered outside when nobody is home? Do they have a fence?[/quote]

The puppy (you do realize this is a PUPPY I'm talking about, right?) is tied to the outside of the garage to two cinder blocks with a cable that he sometimes chews on. He has no toys out there, so he huddles in the garage, chews on sticks, barks frantically, or digs for the 10 hours a day he tends to be out (weekdays, weekends are better). That's it. I mean, if you can't bother putting water in a bowl, I guess you couldn't take the time to buy and give the poor creature a toy. His cable is just long enough to be legal, but it doesn't give him that much room. They have no fence.

Yes, the puppy is tied outside when no one is home, which means he's out sometimes from 8 am (or earlier) to 8pm (or later). He doesn't always come in as soon as people get home. I get the distinct impression that the woman (who I think is my age or one year older) doesn't have anything to do with that puppy. She can be home, and the puppy will stay out. I never see her with him, just the guy. There's a little girl who comes and goes, but hasn't been around much. I've seen her play around the puppy (while he was still tethered), and come just out of reach, but I've never seen her (or anyone) play WITH the puppy.

He does sleep indoors, though there's no telling what he does indoors. We've heard him crying from indoors too, bawling his head off for attention, so maybe he's locked in the basement or a room, I don't know.

I do know that he escaped from the house one day, bolted out the door with everyone yelling behind him. I looked out, and this puppy was wearing a muzzle. One of the fabric ones. They snatched him up, looked around, and took him inside. Make of that what you will.

[quote]You might think you're doing the dog a favor but in the end it's possible that you're really making things worse than they are.[/quote]

Maybe, but in all honesty, the only worse thing I could think of is if the dog was starving (he looks healthy enough) and left outside all the time instead of just half the time.

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Edgar, its VERY cold in Mutt's and my part of the world. The high yesterday was **9**....as in 9 degrees. Even if let in at night, without sufficient shelter that pup will freeze. And in these temps (and its colder where Mutts is than here, she's farther north) water will freeze inside of
10 minutes. Is this better than possibly being in a shelter, where food and water are plentiful, and its warm? I dont think so. And puppies get adopted, usually, faster than adults. This part of the world is not a good place to be an outside dog during the winter. Even with a doghouse, straw, completely shielded from the wind, and using the straw and her
own body heat to keep warm (straw is an excellent insulator) her water will still freeze in ten minutes or less....do you still think this is better?

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Guest Mutts4Me

Great.

I just knew that the HS was going to come while someone was home, I just knew it. Dangit!!!

I was out all morning, and not 10 minutes after I got home, I look out and see that the puppy next door is off his cable and in my yard. So I go out to get him, and his owner comes around the corner into my backyard, scoops up the puppy, sees me, and demands

"Did you call the Humane Society on me???"

I'm like, Huh? And he sneers, "what, you don't know?" I was like "No, I don't know what you're talking about. Someone called the Humane Society? Why, cuz he's tied up outside?" He said that someone made a complaint because he didn't have enough water "or something." :wallbash:

So I know that the HS can't come out three times a day in an attempt to catch the dog tied out, and I'm not angry (unlike my dad, who wants to complain to the HS :roll: ), but I was really, really hoping they'd come when the puppy was out so that they could say they saw the dog tied out and decided to check on him. We're the only neighbors who probably care, and worse yet, we're the only neighbors with a view of that puppy all day long. And as it is, since they came when someone was home, the dog may have been inside, and they could've denied anything. "What, no, this is his indoor collar." "Oh yeah, I dump the ice and put fresh water in that bowl every morning. It's just solid now because he hasn't been outside." "Oh, no, he's not out that often, I'm home a lot during the day. Like now, see?" Bah.

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Guest Mutts4Me

[quote name='Seijun']Next time take pictures of the poor dog tied.
[/quote]

That wouldn't prove anything but that it was tied up that one time. But if I had had my camera, I would've taken pictures anyway, yes. I just got my camera back after my friend had it for a couple months for a school project. And my sister moved out with hers, and my mom is in California with hers, so I haven't had a camera in over a week, about as long as it's been snowing.

[quote name='Michele']This is gonna seem drastic, BUT....I would take the dog out of the yard.....and find it another home......[/quote]

Well, yes, that is drastic. The dog isn't being beaten or starved, and if there were legal grounds to remove the dog, it'd be done by AC or the HS. If I did it, that would be stealing, and I don't feel like going to jail because some idiot can't leave his dog inside during the day. And he is only out during the day, so I don't know how I could march over there in broad daylight and steal someone's puppy... Also wouldn't know what to do with it if I had it. Don't know anyone offhand who wants an untrained, 40 lb Rottweiler mix puppy.

(not that it's not something I've thought about. A few months ago when we brought in a loose dobe-mix puppy and had it crated in our front room for the night, my sister came in, heard it whining from a different room, and freaked out, yelling "Oh my god, did you steal the neighbor's puppy???" :o )

Mei-Mei, I [i]do[/i] have faith in the Humane Society (I feel the need to repeat that it was the HS, not the AC). It's just frustrating that it didn't work out like I'd hoped. I wish they'd come by when no one was home and the dog was out, so it could be an easy case of He's tied with a prong, He has no water, and he has no good shelter or bedding. Also would've been nice if it could have been passed off as a routine, drive-by check instead of our neighbors now hating us (and I lied to him, which I almost never do).

Now that I have my camera back, I'm going to go out to the HS and volunteer to take pictures and put them on Petfinder - they're not on it, and the only reason I can figure is because they don't have anyone to do it for them. So I'll see if I can find out what happened, and if they're going to go back and check.

BTW - a couple hours after I posted about the neighbor confronting me, I left the house. No one was home next door, but there was NO PUPPY outside. :o The basement light was on, so they probably left him in there, which is much, much better than tied up to the garage. Hopefully it lasts!!!

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