Multiple dog ownership isn't for everyone

[Horsefeathers!]

*groan*

This is just another long, drawn out rant, but venting is good, right?

I reckon I just take for granted how much work people perceive there is in taking care of several dogs. We currently have nine in the house and have had ten (and will soon again) and it really doesn't seem that difficult to us. Then again, my husband is very active in their care as well and we don't have children, so our priorities are perhaps a lot different from other folks'. We have a daily routine and things run smoothly for us. Our furniture is intact, our dogs are mannerable (most of the time :oops: ), our house is relatively clean... it's not the disaster area people would assume. It's not a lifestyle for everyone, but I wouldn't expect it to be. Some people can handle children and I can't, so to each's own.

The reason for the rant is this... my best friend whom I love dearly and would do nearly anything for adopted three of my former fosters. She's a great dog mom, patient as a saint, high quality food, really treats them well. However, her household isn't nearly as structured as mine. Her dogs pretty much have free run of the house, but with no boundaries or training. When she only had two, they were already several years old and fairly settled... none of that wild puppy behavior, so I think she took for granted how well things went with them. She didn't worry about coming home from work and the house being torn from one end to the other, or piles of crap everywhere from upset tummies where they ate whatever they could get into. Things ran smoothly. Then she adopted the third one, Fifty, and he is still very young and very hyper. Still, she's been able to cope with him pretty well. I mean, her house is a constant disaster, but she copes with it. I think that's great that she can have a sense of humor about it.

Then Peaches came along and that made four. That's the three legged foster Dobe that I let my friend keep until my ankle could heal better since Peaches was so difficult on a leash and I wasn't sturdy enough on my feet to work with her. While Peaches was at my house, she was very well mannered. No accidents in the floor, never tore anything up except for minor damage to one clothing item that hadn't been put away yet. She didn't rip and shred everything she came into contact with. Since Peaches has been with Fifty at my friend's house, she has developed some horrible habits. Destructive, all housetraining (which was never even an issue before) has gone out the window. Still, my friend loves Peaches and is willing to cope with these things.

This is what has me really p*ssed off with my friend now... Peaches is a bag of bones. She was always pretty slender and she's VERY energetic... she's perpetual motion. I've been helping my friend out with food for Peaches and a couple of weeks ago I [u]suggested[/u] she start feeding Peaches more since she was dropping weight, but acting ok. She feeds the dogs twice a day and Peaches is getting a lot per feeding, so I suggested adding a midday feeding since she is home during the day (at least in and out) rather than adding even more to one of the other feedings (since Rocco, I'm terrified of bloating and do not want Peaches loaded to the gills). Last week when I saw Peaches, she looked like she'd lost even more weight. Her ribs are showing and so is her backbone. So then I [u]insisted[/u] she start adding a midday feeding to Peaches' routine. That's been about a week ago. I just talked to her on the phone and asked her about it. What she said to me really upset me... she told me that she'd been too busy. Ok, she does a lot of errand running and such, but she is still home for at least a few minutes at a time during the day. How hard is it to throw a freaking bowl of food down for a dog that will scarf it down in a few seconds, anyway?? It's not like I'm asking her to prepare an elaborate home cooked meal... just a bowl of kibble is better than nothing. All her other dogs are battling weight gain and she's always joking that they're just "fluffy" because she likes her dogs a little heavy (therefore "happy"). I can't believe she would tell me she is too busy to feed a skin and bones dog one extra meal during the day. I mean, Peaches is getting her morning and evening meals, but still... she's skin and bones. I cannot imagine fixing my lips to say I'm too busy to feed an emaciated dog.

I'm so upset by that. I told her that I need to know if Peaches is skinny because she's got such a high metabolism and burning it off, or if something else is going on. If she were getting that extra meal and still losing weight, I'd know to look for another problem. As it is, I really think she just needs more calories since she's such a high energy dog. Still, I won't know until we try.

I think my friend is angry with me because I bluntly told her that I will be taking Peaches home with me if she's too "busy" to feed her. She really had planned to adopt Peaches outright, but this was just kind of a trial run... her keeping Peaches for me while my ankle heals. Peaches is still MY responsibility. I really think my friend is in over her head. She sees all the dogs we have and I think she thinks it's fairly easy (maybe?) since our house usually runs so smoothly, but there are two of us here and we have a very structured environment. Two dogs were great for her, three were quite a handful, but I don't think she can handle four. It may make me a real sh*thead, but I'm bringing Peaches home with me. She protested, but I don't think I really heard another word after that "I've been too busy and haven't been home much..." thing. Fine. Take care of your business and do what you have to do. I still say that if a person is too busy for that dog, then they don't need it. It doesn't mean I think she's a bad person. In her defense, she is the most giving, big hearted person I know which is why I love her as a best friend. The one thing she can't stand is to see someone or something starving and I reckon she thinks that since Peaches eats as much as she does for her morning and evening meals, she can't be starving. Still, it is not in Peaches' best interest to leave her there and since Peaches is MY responsibility, she has to come home.

I'm still p*ssed off, though. :x

Am I overreacting? My friend frequently tells me (on other issues) that I tend to overreact and see things as worse than they are. Since Peaches is eating a lot twice a day already, should I be so concerned about her not getting the midday meals? Am I really being a sh*thead if I "repo" Peaches? She's really attached to her, but aside from the weight loss, Peaches' behavior has gone down the toilet because there is no structure. I wish I could get some pictures to post so others could see what I see. Really, her ribs, hips and spine are showing. :-?

[courtnek]

if Peaches is as thin as you say, you are NOT overreacting. If she cant handle a high energy dog who needs multiple feedings, then she shouldnt keep the dog. its as easy as that.

couch potatos are easy to take care of. High energy dogs are not. I have two couch potatos, who also have the run of a huge yard, so energy expenditure isnt as issue. HF, you need to take Peaches back, AND care for your ankle.

best of luck.

:)

[JackieMaya]

You're absolutely doing the right thing taking Peaches back. Your friend, however well-meaning she is, isn't able to properly take care of Peaches. Has she taken Peaches to a vet to see if there's a medical reason she's been losing weight?

Good luck in getting Peaches back to health again.

[gooeydog]

What you describe reminds me of Haley's old owner, except your friend isn't near as negligent. They love the dogs, but they aren't able/don't want to give the care they need, and they don't even realize it. They also don't want to give the dog up, because they're worried about how they'll feel. I'd liken it to kennel blindness in breeders, they're so caught up in their own feelings that they don't believe their dogs have any faults, except in these cases, they don't believe they're not giving good enough care. You're doing the right thing for Peaches, and probably for your friend as well, though she may not see it that way.

[Horsefeathers!]

Goo, that made a lot of sense and sounds just about right. My friend is as well meaning as a person can be, but she sometimes lets herself get overwhelmed. Actually, she does this a lot in many aspects of her life.

[quote]Has she taken Peaches to a vet to see if there's a medical reason she's been losing weight?
[/quote]
So far, I really believe Peaches is just burning off more calories than she's taking in. She's a very high energy dog and constantly in motion. Still, I'd like to try the extra feeding just to see if that helps and then if not, take further action.

[quote]a big ,predominantly black ,naughty dog is never going to find a permanent home now is she?[/quote]
Very good point! :o


And I was so enjoying the fresh air. Peaches does seem to have a bit of a tender tummy, prone to occasional bouts of diarrhea and really, really bad gas. You always knew she was in the house, for sure. :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

i dont think your over reacting at all HF!! it sounds like your freind is in way over her head if she can't even put down a bowl of food and wait , what 5 mins for peaches to eat it?? It sounds liek maybe she was good at just 2 dogs, since getting the 3rd its' gooten kind of hecktic.. I dont blame you for being concernd, and if it were me i'd already have peaches back at my house.. something isn't adding up if she sooo skinny.....

I think your in the right for brining her home. good luck with that when it happens! keep us updateD!

[mouseatthebusstop]

no you are not over-reacting but I am a bit concerned there could be something wrong with Peaches
I think Peaches should be blood tested

[imported_Kat]

gee thats awful! You aren't over reacting at all. Shes neglecting the dog plain and simple! :evil:

[Horsefeathers!]

Oh well, Peaches is back. We're again a gang of ten.

I'm more positive than ever that we're doing the right thing. I've really been thinking of the behavioral problems that have evolved with Peaches while she was with my friend due, I think, to a lack of structure. I don't know about anyone else, but we could not run this household with this many dogs and cats if we didn't have a pretty rigid set of household rules and enforce them. For example, NO displays of aggression... at all, ever. We used to do the "let them work it out" thing in regard to snarls and growly behavior as long as it didn't turn physical, but no more. We do not accept it at all, period. At her house, Peaches became aggressive with one of her other dogs (actually left a puncture wound in the other dog's face tonight :( ... a sweet, docile Standard Poodle named Peyton that I previously fostered), became destructive, barked incessantly and was perpetual motion. She's the exact opposite at my house. She's lying quietly on the couch now. What gives? :o

Peaches is a dog that NEEDS structure. She has separation anxiety issues and is most comfortable with a very predictable routine. She becomes very agitated and hyper when things get chaotic, or routines change. In hindsight, I should have known Peaches would not do well there. I still think my friend is a GREAT home for a more settled, quiet dog, but not Peaches. I just really needed some time for my ankle to heal a bit better and it was either that or send Peaches back to the rescue I'm fostering her for.

[__crazy_canine__]

Wow HF thats just awful things didnt work out. Im glad shes back with you since thats definitely whats best for her.

Well hope things go smoothly with her back in your home. :D

[imported_Cassie]

HF, you are a saint in the dog world :wink: how lucky those dogs are to be in your care.
In my current situation and having rescued a malnourished underweight Dobie...it is difficult to keep weight on the dog. They are high energy and do have a high metabolism. I find with my Dobe's, past and present any stress or change in routine or environment would have them drop weight very quickly.
With a Dobe I owned years ago (Heidi) she was perfect weight until I had to go away for several weeks and leave her boarding at her original breeder

[imported_Kat]

HF you are brill for taking her back. Whether or not you decide to keep her you did the right thing by bringing her back to a more structured and discilpined environment.

[Horsefeathers!]

I'm so upset now. Some of the behavior that Peaches picked up at my friend's house, she brought here. She was [u][i]never[/u][/i] aggressive in any shape or form while she was at my house previously. If nothing else, she was very submissive to the other dogs. She learned to express jealousy and possessiveness effectively at my friend's house by going after one of her other dogs whenever she was "violating" a space she deemed hers. Apparently, it worked for her there. Last night, she was on the couch which is where she always stayed before, and Perry came by just on his way to find a place to flop. Perry always lays on the couch, too, but he doesn't mind one bit another dog being there and has no idea what to do with an irate dog. Perry doesn't have one ounce of fear or fight in him. Peaches went after him last night. That has never happened here before. I'm not having it, I'm not having it, I'm not having it. She will have no more couch privileges and, oh, I'm not having that crap. I lived once with a dog that we had to watch morning, noon and night and keep separated and stay on pins and needles because she was so volatile and unpredictable. I used to be willing to do that, but now I'm not. When that dog was finally gone, we didn't realize what a huge burden it was that was lifted when we didn't have to be on guard duty 24/7. If it makes me an intolerant bastard, I still will NOT have a dog that could potentially kill one of my smaller dogs. That's happened before and it won't happen again.

Just really distressed, I reckon. Perhaps she can unlearn this behavior if I begin by taking her couch privilegs. If she EVER goes after one of my smaller dogs, she will be going back to the rescue group we're fostering her for. I'm not going through that whole "keep 'em separated" thing anymore. It's such a shame when she NEVER exhibited that kind of behavior here before. I think my friend initially thought it was "cute" that Peaches "loved" her so much when Peaches would get right up under her and keep the other dogs away. I think she thought she was bonding with her. Look what it turned into. :x

I hate that this dog has been bounced around so much, but my first responsibility and obligation are to my resident dogs here. The rescue people caught me so off guard by calling me only days after Rocco died and asking me to foster Peaches. I thought I was doing a good thing by trying to help out, but I think I was caught off-guard and made the wrong decision in my good intentions. Peaches would have been just as well off left in the foster home she was in initially. :(

[__crazy_canine__]

OMG HF!!! I really hope Peaches will unlearn this for her sake ad for your dogs' sakes. Its amazing how something can completely change a dog for the worse. :x

I dont know what to say... this is just awful. Id love for her to stay with you but if you feel like your dogs are in danger then I think its best for her to go back to the rescue. :(

[imported_Cassie]

HF, what a shame. :(
I know this isnt going to help much, but...when my bitch comes into heat I send my intact boys back to the kennel to stay with the breeder. This is when I had the 2 intact males, now I just have the one...any how, my group of dogs gets along famously...until they have to restructure themselves. When the 2 boys are gone my little Dobie mix Beau tends to be the ladies man. When the boys come home they have a few sessions with Beau to put him back in line then life carries on as usual. Beau usually backs down after a day or 2 some times it takes a week...then he goes back to his old ways of catering to the boys :wink:

[courtnek]

sounds like Peaches needs to be demoted a little bit. She apparently
got treated like top dog at your friends house, now needs to come back to reality at your house. Hope it all works out for you and Peaches and the rest of the gang....

[Queen Bitch]

I am confident that Peaches will learn to be good in your home HF. For the simple fact that there are dog owners and then there are dog people. You are the latter, and it sounds like your friend was the former.

[Horsefeathers!]

I may have been wallowing a bit in a puddle of self pity. :oops:
After the incident with Peaches jumping on Perry the other night, I totally lost it and showed my own "alpha bitch" side. I came up off the couch raising nine kinds of h*ll and let Peaches know, in no uncertain terms, that we do NOT hurt other members of this family. I hate like crap to act like that toward her since she originally came from an abuse case (though I'm unsure the nature of the abuse... that's just what the rescue coordinator told me). I'm usually very gentle and loving to her because I [u]don't[/u] want her to feel like she needs to be afraid. I hated to confront her like that. I didn't hit her or anything... was just very loud and confrontational and shoved her off the couch. Probably not the way to handle it, but was my immediate reaction to her jumping on Perry, so I believe she had to see it as a consequence of her actions. Maybe that's giving a dog more credit for reasoning ability than they have? I dunno, but I think sometimes they have more sense than we give them credit for. However, for what it's worth, it seems the "reality check" worked. She hasn't as much as wrinkled her lip at another dog even when they are trompling all over her. She's stopped sulking since the "reality check" the other night and is her perky, happy self again minus the turf wars (at least so far).

I think I was just feeling a bit overwhelmed and angry the other night... angry with my friend for not setting better behavioral boundaries and enforcing them, angry because she basically, if unintentionally, created this monster. I'm sure everything will probably work out ok. At least we hope it will. Peaches is silly, but she isn't stupid. Thanks for the support. :)

[courtnek]

HF cheer up. You did EXACTLY what needed to be done. in a pack situation, thats exactly what the Alpha female would have done with an
out of control member. Put her in her place, and if she then starts to obey, loosen up a bit and be cordial. Without realiaing it, you did exactly the right thing. Pulled a few rungs out her ladder and made her understand that YOU are in control, and she must obey. Good for you!!

Now that the rules have been laid down and she understands them again, I think she will slide right back into place and be a good dog again.

She just got a bit above herself at your friends. She got lifted out of her "place" there, and has now learned her place again with you. Good job!!