imported_Matty Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I was just curious about this and how each person felt about this and how they would answer this about their favorite breed. The reason I ask is because it seems ever time a topic comes up on breeds people always say, oh I knew or owned a Rottweiler and he was the sweetest dog ever. I mean I think its kinda misleading when people tell others that even though a breed was specially designed for guarding or other special duties to say that people are idiots to be wary of them cause they are all so sweet. They base it on their own few encounters or ownership. Basically what I am trying to say, it seems that people give out false representation of different breeds thinking some how they are protecting them from breed banning. When in actual fact they are making it more dangerous for people and the breed. Sure there are all kinds of sweet guarding dogs and dogs bred for dog fighting which don't fit the standard of the breed. But, instead of people saying all Rotties are sweet and adorable cause I owned one that was so. Shouldn't they instead say some thing like..."yeah, I owned one and it was wonderful....but, they were orginally bred to herd cattle so they do have a higher prey drive than other breeds" or "They make good guard dogs and really need to have more socialization than a lot of other breeds" In other words why don't people tell the truth and help the breed by understanding instead of trying to hide different temperments which were intentionally bred into them? The reason I mentioned this is because I was talking to a reputable Rottweiler breeder at a dog show he was doing obedience. He is the person who mentioned that people who don't understand the breed and their potential are the ones who make for dangerous owners. He also said he is very straightforward about the special enhanced features of the Rottie. He also said each breed is unique and they should not all be glumped together. He said it is frustrating when he hears people misrepresenting the breed. It seems the most dangerous owners are the do gooders who basically take a breed designed for a specific purpose and try to portray to the world through their dog that they are nothing like what they were orginally bred for. If this makes sense then you are very good at reading between the lines. Im not the easiest person to understand. :lol: :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ofakind Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I hear you and you are right! I have Jacks, pretty misunderstood breed. My 3 are VERY well behaved. Some say I have a special touch but really I think it is all in the breeding. I didn't get my dogs from some fancy breeder but I did make sure they had great parents. People often say after meeting my kids how nice and sweet they are, nothing like what they have heard. Then I hear the dreaded words "I think a jack would be a good dog for us" AHHHHHHHHHHH NO NO NO!! One guy was asking if they were good with kids, he was looking for a small dog for his kids. So I showed him their teeth (fyi, they are very large for a small dog, bigger than some large breeds). Told him what they were bred to do, they chase bark and bite. He quickly understood that a Jack was not right for him or his kids. My jacks are good with kids and most are (but definitely not all) and I could have told him that if I didn't know better. Maybe sometimes peoples miseducation of others is simply their own misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 i am glad you brought this up! A lot of people have the misconception that the Great Pyrenees is just a big fluffy teddy bear and while at some times that is true, this breed retains the ferocious instinct to protect its flock that the Pyrenean shepherds relied on to keep wolves and bears away from their sheep. (Bears! :o) In the case of pet Pyrs, (many are still used for LGD work) this translates into an instinct to protect their human "flock" and home, as a result they are wary of strangers and [i]will[/i] make a big scene of warning barks and growls if anyone approaches the property. They are territorial by nature as well and will not tolerate strange animals on "their" property, which is why you cannot have a Pyr and an invisible fence, chances are they will seriously injure the intruder. They often do not even tolerate other pet dogs in their home, especially those of the same sex. They are also extremely powerful, some weighing in over 120 pounds. They are independent, bred originally to roam over thousands of acres and take care of hundreds of sheep. They are not going to always come when called or listen to every word you say. Now, when trained and socialized properly they are wonderful, loyal and yes, even cuddly house dogs, submissive to people. They love their human families. They move slow and have a gift for taking naps! They will not jump all over you, demand to be walked sixteen times a day and can be housetrained in a matter of days. I cringe though, when people see my beautiful white girl and say "where do i get one of those?" Thanks for the opportunity to say a little about my favorite dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Well, I have Saint Bernards. Originally bred to find lost travelers in snow in the pass through the Alps between Italy and Switzerland. They are not guard dogs but can be protective of family if they are in danger. The thing that people ask me about that irks me the most is Beethoven. I mean yes, they do drool (a lot if they have very loose jowls.) and if bored could eat a sofa if they wanted to :lol: But generally very loving, laid back, lazy dogs. They were bred for stamina in cold weather, so they're not going to be your running partner. But they do need daily exercise to keep the weight off. An overweight Saint is a recipe for diasister. Also there is no such thing as a dry mouth Saint! NONE. Some Saints may drool less due to tighter jowls but even they will drool. I also hate it when I have to explain to people that if they're not willing to keep these dogs indoors then they shouldn't get one. I live in the southeastern part of the U.S. It get very hot and humid here. Saints weren't bred to live in those conditions. They could easily suffer from heat stroke. Shaving them doesn't help (they just look silly). Because of their body weight (some easily weigh in at 150) they cannot cool themselves by panting the way a smaller dog can. So, keep them inside in the air conditioning! Everyone I've met thinks I'm nuts for keeping them inside...I think it just goes to show who shouldn't own a Saint! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Some breeds just arent for certain people. With misleading information, anyone can think theyre getting what theyre not. Theres one person, another volunteer, who got a dog adopted out saying how wonderful he was... yeah, well, he wasnt/isnt and now they brought him back as an adult with many, many behavioral issues. They let him chew on people when he was a pup and now is full grown (and HUGE!) and still bites people. Now dont get me wrong he doesnt bite seriously... its just like what a lot of rotties do, they put their mouth on you but dont bite down very hard, just mouthing kinda. Anyway my point is this dog was a chow mix and some of the things he was doing was part of his breed traits that they shouldve been informed about and not just have been told how "great" he was. :roll: I know people want to get others to like their breed, like me and pits, but just saying the half-truth isnt doing them any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 [quote name='Jessashelony']I never never never encourage people to buy pit bulls... Unless of course they have really done their research... I cringe everytime I hear someone say "My friend just got a pit puppy..." I just know that I am not going to want to hear the rest... :-?[/quote] Oh I know!!! :o :roll: God, I hate the fact that pits are like this fad to people. :cry: In school every once in a while I hear people say something about pits and Im not sure what to think... One part of me is happy they like them but the other is like, well, I wonder if they just like their "tough" look/reputation or something. I know there are plenty of people in my school who own pits and maybe even fight them. My friend who used to live in Miami used to bet in dog fights and told me he saw a few die before but said, "hey its good money!" Damn him... :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 We used to raise Saints in Colorado. There is a huge difference in the amount of drool from one dog to the next and they do genetically pass it on. For instance, we had one named Buford, I can't remember his full name, he was my moms, and there was never a day that drool wasn't spewing in long strands from his mouth, hence the term wet mouth. Brandi on the other hand drooled about the same as a lab, maybe a little more. No they aren't "dry mouthed" but yes there is a variance from dog to dog in the breed. I agree with u, they need to be air conditioned and very much a part of a family. They are not meant to be left along outside. Although I do not own them now, they are still my favorite breed. Just don't have the right conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Pyrs, too, actually, can come up with quite a bit of slime! But it varies from dog to dog as well. Matty, I think you are right, there is a danger sometimes with rescuers who want to "save them all". A good friend who does Pyr rescue refused to place a dog for an owner who didn't want him anymore because the dog was dangerously aggressive. These people ignored her concerns completely and set out to place him on their own-in a home with children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Matty Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 Great info every one. I think the worst breed I heard about misrepresenting is the border collie. I have seen in my obedience class (I attend, I don't teach :lol: ) new owners with border collies, the owners never owned a dog before and got the border collie cause they are so cute, and isnt a collie supposed to be great with kids. Now, I don't know a lot about border collies but most these owners looked like they were at wits end with this wild black and white zoomer dog on the leash. I hear them complaining the dog chases every thing that moves, cars are a new passion for the dog, the living room window is now off limits. All they wanted was a pretty black & white dog to sit prettiely by their side and play fetch with the kids. The obedience instructor said that in actual fact they got a good working collie :-? then they end up going to a behaviorist for a problem for the owner but quite natural for the border collie. The border collie gets bored and destructive and you just know that your going to see the dog ending up in a shelter because of behavioral problems. Sometimes I think border collies are unfairly representated. Now, I don't own one so I don't really have a clue about them. But, in the back of my mind I know they are supposed to be one of the greatest herding dogs. To me this breed is a poor choice for a first time lazy type owner who is not going to give it lots of exercise or a job to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Matty Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 [quote]A good friend who does Pyr rescue refused to place a dog for an owner who didn't want him anymore because the dog was dangerously aggressive. These people ignored her concerns completely and set out to place him on their own-in a home with children[/quote] pyrless that is horrible! :o :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I KNOW!!! :o basically just asking for a whole lot of hell. hee hee-border collies! i've never had one (clearly i prefer a slower-moving dog! :lol: ) but from what i have seen you need a working farm and a couple hundred sheep to really keep that dog's mind out of trouble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 My parents have a farm and a Border Collie named Jake who is a absolutely wonderful, extremely intelligent dog. He works cattle goes absolutely everywhere with my dad all day. You would think he would be worn out by days end....... Uh...... no!!!! They come home and play ball. The dogs energy never ends, he is a great dog but without these circumstances or agility I think he would not have near enough stimulation and would go crazy. I think they are definately a breed that takes research and the know before you just get one. Impulse buying with this breed leads to disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I have to agree and comment on the Border collie. It is the most representative breed to end up in a shelter in the United Kingdom due to behavioural problems. When people come to me asking for advice on a BC I try my very best to discourage them because I always say they are the worst dogs to own but can also be the best dogs to own. My thesis research was spurred on by the rising number of BC's that are in shelters and I studied the social behaviour of the breed by splitting it into 4 groups. -pet -obedience dogs -agility dogs -working farm dogs I observed a variety of social behaviours and through constructing a statistical canonical distribution, I was able to identify two common behavioural dimensions which I called compliance and neuroticism. One very strong trend was evident in that working farm dogs scored higher on the neuroticism axis than the other groups. This was extremely evident from a canonical distribution that I generated . I strongly believe that this is because working farm dogs are allowed to exhibit a wild predatory trait. Herding is encouraged in working farm dogs and it is essentially a form of hunting with the kill part eliminated through years of careful manipulation. Border collies I feel are extremely high maintenance dogs and they need fine tuning from puppyhood to obtain "desirable behaviour". If that fine tuning is not put in place with stimulation such as basic commands, obedience or agility then the herding instinct will kick in and will convey itself in a series of behavioural problems from biting to car chasing on a wide scale of behavioural problems. On a personal note I love the breed and my next puppy will be without any doubt my chocolate red tri-colour pup that I have wanted for a long time. Meg is an amazing dog and very quick to respond to commands and loves to please me. However she is from working parents and still shows evidence of herding traits which I believe are due to genetics. She will still veer to the right slightly when doing a sendaway and will still a circle the training bag when I am getting something from it. I strongly believe observing these traits from her and other BC's that if they are not given stimulation then they are a nightmare dog to own. I certainly know that Meg would be an extremely hard dog to handle if she had not had training from an 8 week old puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mutts4Me Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I hate it when people buy based on reputations and not research. It can go both ways, like if someone buys a Pit because some idiots use them as guard dogs, but in reality, they were never menat to be guard dogs and tend not to have the natural tendency towards it. Or someone gets a dog like the affore mentioned Border Collie just because they see it being used in all kinds of activities - so it must be really smart and stuff. Well, it is, but they don't get all the stimulation involved. I used to want a Border Collie. And I used to want a JRT. I don't want either anymore - I still think they're wonderful dogs, but they're not suited to me. I know that because I research any dog I even consider wanting. I wish others would do the same. You're right, it's not fair to promote a dog as "perfect," since there are so many different definitions of perfect. There's nothing wrong about talking about the positive sides to a breed, especially ones with bad raps, but you've got to be careful not to show it as only positive. IT's only fair to give people a realistic look at a breed, especially those who are considering buying/adopting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I agree with all of that, and now for the other side of the coin. I cant even begin to tell you how much I cringe when I hear someone say "I'm going to get a lab because they're great housedogs and great with kids", which translates to "I believe all the crap I read and this dog will train itself, and I can leave it on the floor with the baby/toddlers/etc and it wont hurt them ever..." NOT!!!!! NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT!!!!!! Labs CAN be very good dogs.....when trained and disciplined properly. Without all of the above you end up with a spoiled, hyperactive, dangerous dog. They are great with kids, when supervised. They dont chew up the furniture, unless they are bored and lacking exercise. They wont bowl your kids over, unless they arent trained to sit on command. They wont run away, unless of course you didnt neuter them, train them on recall (GOOD recall...hunting dogs will take off after the first interesting scent if unleashed and not recall trained VERY WELL)... it just makes me stark raving CRAZY!!!! I have a friend who has two of them. She's clueless about training. The dogs take off, nipped one of her kids, bowled them both over, steal things off the table....I asked her why she didnt take them to training. She actually said "I thought they didnt need to be trained...the breeder said they are very good dogs....." I put her in touch with a trainer, because we would stop being friends if I trained them....they need a LOT of work now. And I am a big fan of NILIF, and she got upset when I explained it to her, so I'm not going there.... AARRGGGGHHHHHHH :o :o :o :o :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokipups Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote]And I am a big fan of NILIF, and she got upset when I explained it to her, so I'm not going there.... [/quote] Court, what are her kids like if NILIF upsets her :-? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I do believe that there are some breeds better suited for first time dog owners than others. But, no matter the predatory level of the dog breed they all require training. People are mislead when they think that a certain breed comes free of problems and will just learn every thing naturally :lol: At the grooming shop I get to see first hand the temperament of breeds under stress. I have never met a Golden Retriever or Lab that I didn't trust...in my 20 years I have never had to muzzle one of these breeds. I would be very very shocked if a Newfoundland dog ever tried to nip while under stress. There are some breeds I don't trust these include some of the more dominant breeds such as Chow's, Rottweilers, APBT's, mainly all terriers...it's funny when you get a snappy terrier on the grooming table you are prepared for it :-? It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I planned 7 years before I got Kavik (Border Collie.) I wanted a dog as a companion, for obedience/agility, to go camping and canoeing with - as in swimming and hiking with a pack all day, a dog that would always be game for a walk or fetch and a dog that I could pick up and carry if something went wrong three days into the bush on a canoe trip. And yes their cute too. My reservations about the breed were with katz as I have two, so I went to BC Rescue and did even more research and talked eventually talked to Kavik's breeder who raised the pups with a feline without problems so my worries were lessened. Things I would warn folks about before they get a Border Collie: * Border Collies are seemingly insane. Once they set their minds to something they are difficult to divert. * They do not play so much as work in a happy manner. They may make up work type games that you can play with them but make no mistake - they are working. They really enjoy a task based game. * They require about 1.5 times the excercise of a PROPERLY excercised Lab and Labs are high energy dogs. * They require mental stimulation, even if it is just once a day. Regular obedience doesn't really count. Competative obedience or a large repetoire of "tricks" or doggy puzzles are needed. A change in their environment, routine etc is helpful at least once a month too. * They are prone to developing "cute" little neurosis if traumatized or not excercised and mentally stimulated. * They are "soft" dogs and do not respond well to harsh training methods including raised voices. In fact, if Kavik percieves that he has performed a task incorrectly he is quite distressed. This is probably his biggest hurdle to any training because he gets so distressed. You must design training well to deal with this. * They are worriers and seem to need to be aware of and keep an eye on all things. * Fireworks are the devil. * From my experience: If properly socialized, it is best to have Border Collies in a two dog house. The other dog provides extra excercise and mental stimulation and companionship. I have heard of many only dog BCs that suffer from seperation anxiety. * They can be quite clingy when not "working." * They MUST be socialized early as they can develop aggression (or at least skittishness) to new or strange people or more often animals - I think this must relate to their sheepherding background or their need to be in control of a situation or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well I have two breeds that tend to be somewhat misunderstood, actually the border more than the dobie. People here tend to think that dobes are maneater (off course not true) but off the guardbreeds they tend to be a bit more aloof and vary of strangers than the others. Actually he doesn't need as much exersice as Fluga but gets just about as much :wink: He's not a people dog, he doesn't like people to ooh and aah over him, he likes it better if he gets to sniff them and tel them what places he likes to be scratched (under the neck but don't tell :lol: ) The border is not as popular here, but there are hoardes of border mixes, and they come in all sizes, actually most mixes tend to be called border mixes. A lot of people don't always realise what kind of work a border is, how much training he needs and how much stimulation. Does not change the fact that the border is the breed for me :fadein: I think, though, that when you get a dog, it is your responsebility to research the breed if you didn't do it beforehand (wich of course you should have) but it can also backfire on owners, everyone telling them how much exersice and stimulation the dog needs and they totally overdo it and end upp with a nervous wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Huh, I didn't know that about Danes. Thanks Mei. Danes may not like smaller dogs but Kavik hates any unneutered male that has the [i]nerve[/i] to be taller than him and he is not a tall dog. :roll: There was a huge unneutered Weim in our obed. class - made things challenging but at least it gave me a chance to work on Kavik's issue in a controlled situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Debbie Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I have Jacks and they are definitely a misunderstood breed....... I did my homework before I got my first one and I knew I could handle them........ #1 I'm home all day/night, so I had time to spend with them #2 They definitely aren't for a person that's going to work all day and leave them un-attended for great lengths of time So anyone that has seen Frasier or Wishbone need to re-think. #3- My Grrlz are good with kids, but the fact is they were raised with kids around and the kids have been raised to respect animals of all kinds. I think each dog is going to have it's own personality's, you can't just think just because it's a certain breed every one is going to fit the mold. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I tried to rescue a Jack Russell once (with out researching) dumb dumb dumb. I had just got out of highschool, what can I say.... :oops: He was supposedly crate trained too the pound told me, he was an owner surrender. I thought they just had him running around the office because they loved him. Oh no... I have him through the weekend, no problemo.. just great as can be. Work week came and I crated him the first day. It was in my room in the corner. By the time I got home he had the crate all the way turned around and blood was everywhere!!!!! He tried to knaw out of that crate apparently all day and really did a job on his mouth. Needless to say he was never crated again and he is now rehomed with my elderly old neighbor who watched him for me after the crate incident. Luckily he fell in love and was home all day to be with the little guy. Point being, serious seperation anxiety. I don't know if they are all that way, but this poor guy was willing to hurt himself to find someone.... :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObedienceGrrl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 [quote name='Cassie']I completely agree that people should do their homework first. I just hate it when people buy Lhasa Apso's as a first time dog...they didn't do their research and did not realize these little dogs were originally bred to be guard dogs. They can be much more dominant than other little dogs; Shih Tzu's for example. So, if some one were looking for a small dog and was debating between the 2 I would certainly recommend a Shih Tzu over a Lhasa. You wouldn't believe the amount of problem Lhasa's we have in our area...and its not due to bad breeding...they are just living up to what they were originally bred to do...guard.[/quote] Amen! My parents have had Lhasas....and yes, they are wonderful dogs, IN THE RIGHT HOME!! Our groomers love it when Shasta comes in. We have been told by every groomer we ever use that she is the best Lhasa they have every touched. She literally falls alseep on the grooming table. Do you know how much it took to get her to be like that??? How many HOURS we spent in grooming shops with her?? Shasta goes every 6 weeks like clockwork to get groomed.....and is bathed frequently at home (about once every week to week and a half). Our old Lhasa was the exact same way..... Shasta will be 8 in March. She has major obedience training and is an all around good dog. Is she snippy? At times.....but never with me (I did all her training). She doesn't like children AT ALL. And she can be dog agressive until she gets to know the dogs. When my parents bring her down to see us, there is growling from her for the first few minutes.....then all is well. She plays with Hunter and Tater (never Dakota....no one likes him....we all feel so bad!!) and just LOVES the cats!! But the point is to watch her like a hawk. Set her up for sucess! Not failure....I will ALWAYS be a fan of the breed. I think they are great dogs. But they have also been in my life since I was 9 years old. So I guess I am biased! I'd love to have a Lhasa again.....but I'm not sure my husband will allow it! He's not a fan of Shasta (he tolerates her because he knows how special she is to me), but he doesn't understand her and how she works the way I do! Okay....I'll stop ranting about Lhasas now......I just love it when people come up to her and say, "Ohhhh...what a cute cuddly dog! I bet she's a real snuggler." Yeah, RIGHT!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I didnt know that about Dane's either. Thats never something I have heard and everyone I have met is a big goofy puppy at six feet tall.... hmmmm.....I can believe that when they're young they're not couch potatos, they need to run, thats what they were bred for. But all the ones I have met were rescues from races. Maybe thats why they were all big goofy puppies, they were trained and had plenty of exercise...gee, imagine that. A good natured dog that was trained and had plenty of exercise..... :D :D :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 [quote name='Lokipups'][quote]And I am a big fan of NILIF, and she got upset when I explained it to her, so I'm not going there.... [/quote] Court, what are her kids like if NILIF upsets her :-? ?[/quote] thats the odd part. She is very strict with her children. They are required to obey..... she seems to think the dogs will grow up to be great with no assistance however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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