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Dogomania

What's the best tie-out stake?


JackieMaya

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[quote]Maybe this is true... but YOU could stop byb breeding... And you COULD help dogs dying in shelters... By not breeding, and not buying from breeders you could rescue dogs that would otherwise die in shelters... You obviously have room for a hoard of them.[/quote]

Those are good points, but you can't stop bybreeding. There will be no end to it. I have stopped some from byb and making good choices and got them to think about what they were wanting to do and the outcome if they would breed. But thats just the tip of the iceburg. The average APBT I owner I have met wants to breed their dog. Not just APBTs but so many dog owners want to breed their dog, even just once or already has. Some to make money and some because their dog is well behaved or pretty. Some people there is no changing their minds, but others are still undecided and will listen if you talk it over with them. Whether I breed or not, would do little to help dogs dying in the shelter. These dogs are already here, and yes they need homes BUT some one looking for a show dog or just a wellbred companion isn't going to find or look for them in a shelter. I think I have done enough to rehome dogs and I don't plan to stop but its not everyone cup of tea to rescue dogs, just the same as its not everyones to breed. Some breed, some rescue, some own pets, ect. If that is your choice fine by me, but you shouldn't expect everyone else to have the same calling in life. I could rescue, but I'd rather buy from a good breeder and know that the dog will almost 100% be healthy and does have a great temperament. Represents the breed which isn't something you find too much from a shelter because they are mostly byb dogs. They are not bred for breed type or standard. You get dogs that dont look like APBTs and some that act very little like one. Some have problems from never being socialized or inborn fear only make worse by their previous environment others have health problems. For those who are not so concerned with these issues their are shelters and rescues. I always make it a point to try and get people to check here, before they start finding bybs to buy from. I also believe that some people want a dog with papers, I'm not saying a wellbred dog from a reputable breeder, they just want to say my dog is registered. Which is very childish in my opinion. They could get a pup from the shelter just the same quality as from a byb, only difference is it won't have papers and its hard to make them understand that simply having papers doesn't make them better. Proper breeding is important to continue a breed and make for the betterment of the breed. The lesser dogs of the breed in rescues and shelters will never diminish because of greed (money) and selfishness (I want my dog to have pups so I can one like her). Its great for those who choose to only get dogs from rescues or take them out of shelters. More people need to be lead this way, instead of picking up the newpaper and browsing the classifieds.

[quote]I can't speak for Sashagirl but if I wanted to keep two dogs seperated in my home I would use doors, crates, close supervision and solid training.[/quote]

I'm also glad that this would work out for you, but not for me and I choose not to do it. I only know of one breeder who does and to me its not fair for the dogs. My dogs actually like being outside and would much rather be out then in a crate. I'm not locking them in rooms either. Some people use baby gates when they can and I think thats a better option if your able to do it. You do whats good for yours and I'll do whats good for mine. Keeping my one female inside, that would probably be "cruel" in her eyes, she's had to endure it before when she's in heat and I'm sure she doesn't understand why she's got to be in the house all the time.

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True Pits pits is right in many ways. IMHO chances are if you rescue a Pit or GSD from a shelter you will get a sketchy dog that was BYB. As such it will could be subject to all kinds of health and temperment problems. Yes sometimes rescue dogs work but in many cases they don't. Especially for people who want to do some kind of sport with their dog e.g. weight pull, schutzhund, protection etc. A rescue dog would not cut it in these cases.

BYB is evil and needs to be crushed but that doesn't mean that good breeders who filter and keep tried tested and true bloodlines going should be punished.

No matter how many dogs responsible people rescue there will always be irresponsible fools BYB'ing unless the state passes some kind of legislature workable against it. Its a vicous and cruel cycle but so many things are.

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Guest Anonymous

Having dogs on chains doesnt make someone a byb. Also, in the case with APBTs with game bloodlines the safest way to keep them safe, is on a heavy chain held by an axle.
I have both kennels and chains. Some dogs are in a kennel, some on a chain and some in a kennel on a chain. I do what I have to do to keep my dogs safe.
I really dont understand why so many people judge someone so harshly because they keep dogs on chains. I understand if the dog is thrown on a chain and forgotten about but I dont think this is the case. I dont think people should be chastised for keeping their dogs safe.
One more thing.... Not everyone who breeds is a byb.

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I feel much better knowing that not everyone thinks chaining a dog up is cruel. I understand if the dog is neglected and a lot on chains are, but you can't judge everyone because of irresponsible owners. I've seen first hand some sad dogs on chains, of course I've also seen them kept in crates or starved in kennels. I'm not saying what I do is for everyone, but for me axles are the safest. Seeing the Boxer I saw on animal chained with a huge chain, wrapped around a tree and very skinny, chained in the mud, left out in the rain with no shelter I can see how that could turn some one off, but its not he fact the dog was chained, it should be that the owner chained it up and left it there to fend for itself. The owner is simply irresponsible, cruel and heartless leaving a cold dog, starving to death.

On a different I have a great interest in schutzhund (among other things) and was thinking of participating at one time, but i doubt I have time because of the dogs I have. I would be using a breed suited for it such as a Shepherd. I would have loved to have done schutzhund before I rescued a Shepherd, purebred, with papers, from working lines, but the dog would have never been a good candidate as he was never socialized, had no confidence and very bad seperation anxiety. It took forever for him to come out of his shell and the dog got a very good home with a very experienced shepderd owner. It would have been nice to do something like schutzhund with this dog, especially since he was wellbred and had the lines for it, but like a lot of other rescues his environment effected him greatly. He didn't have any human contact, bare minimum just feeding him was the only time he saw a person. Its very sad. I watched Animal Cops (or one of those shows) dogs were kept in a vacant home and the owner came by to feed them, thats the only contact with people they had, one of them turned not to be adoptable because the lack of socialization he recieved, luckily this shepherd turned out alright, but the dog on the show really reminded me of him and his situation.

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Edgar, I hate to break it to you, but there are a TON of Shelter dogs and rescue dogs in Sch. I treally isn't hat difficult to train for. I have TWO rescue APBT's that have competed, one is not very athletic and still got High score at her Sch A trial. The other is a super gamey dog who had a lot of trouble with distractions and now she is consistently in the top 2-3 everytime she competes! AT 2 YEARS OLD. RESCUE DOG!!! I would compete with her against any "purebred, expensive, papered" GSD, Mal, or AmBull, all of whom I love with a passion, but Rescue and Shelter dogs are every bit as good and sometimes better for it. THere are sources to get "papers" for dogs to pass the weak scrutiny given for competitions. When I started my little on ein Ring, they made her do the Blue Dog thing, but I did some homework, got her papers and now she has her Brevet in addition to her Sch I, and is well on her way to getting her Sch II (hoping for another high in trial). So if you wanna denegrate shelter dogs, try again. I will put the talents of my shelter dogs against anyones Breeder dog and win more often than not and there is nothing special about my dog's pasts.

As far as Axles and heavy chains go....If the chain weighs more than about 20 lbs total, you are risking vertebrae damage on the dog. Period. Weight puller or not, a 2 inch link chain is NOT necessary if you buy a quality steel link. 1" has never been a problem for the myriad IWPA owners that I hang out with. And NONE of them use Axles....One uses an old bus but that is different...LOL And many of these dogs are in the 3K club and over....My little one gets crated every day, my older one is a fence jumper and there are other ways of dealing with fences. There are "no-jump" additions that come off the top of the fence inward at about a 30-45 degree angle that a dog (even one that has routinely cleared 8 ft privacy fences) cannot get over physically.

Just do some more research and you will find the solution you need to keep your doggies safe and secure!

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I don't think he was trying to degrade shelter dogs. I hope you don't feel that way. I know I would never, because I've owned all different types of dogs. But they usually come from bybs and if bybs are lesser quality that means shelter dogs are. I don't mean that in a degrading way, I mean there is more of a chance for them to have a health problem (and I've had my fair share from bybs and rescue dogs I've had) and sometimes temp problems. Theres more of a chance with a rescue to have some sort of bad habit (that is probably the fault of the dumb previous onwer) then even a pup directly from the byb. If byb breed such great dogs then I guess theres no need for rep breeders to prove their dogs can do anything. I think you can get a good dog from the shelter, shelter dogs can do SCH, can do agility, flyball, service work, police work, movie actors, and many other things, among being good pets. But getting a dog from a breeder is more of a better insurance for health and temperament and even work. I just remembered the story I've told once before, well it goes a black lab/hound cross didn't pan out as a hunting dog, they talk about how stupid it is, ect. How they thought it would be a great hunting dog because its a labXhound. This to me is funny two dogs, probably from bybs, have a litter together and now the pups are supposed to be A+ hunters. Not to mention they are both "hunting" type breeds, but two different kind of hunters a retreiver and a tracker. It could work, maybe one out of the litter would have been a great retriever, but buying a retriever bred by a breeder is probably going to be a good retreiver and thats more then one in the litter.
TONS may do SCH, and TONS could never do SCH or possible other activities because of their poor breeding and/or previous environment.

I agree with the weight of the chains, some people use very heavy chains and it is damging to the neck and vertebre, as well they use weighted collars which do a lot of damage. Even worse some people put heavy chain on pups, talk about stupid. One guy put a 30lbs chain on a puppy. No adult should be wearing a chain like that, let alone a pup who can't even move with it on.

What do they use instead of axles? That does stay in the ground and works. Besides a school bus..lol I don't have any of those laying around.

I'm still wondering what some people see wrong with axles, a tie out is a tie out. I had one on a post (it was like a fence post hammered into the ground), never pulled it out of the ground, but she jumps a lot. So its dangerous for her to come down on this post and secondly she got off it because unlike axles its just a post and doesn't have an area wider then the diameter of the part steaked into the ground. Its the same size all around so if she jumps really high the chain comes clear off. Now she jumps and it hits the top of the axle no worry. Last time when she got free she went to the front and ate a whole bag of cat food! She was so fat, she is a big eater, always has been, eats everything in site....lol

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Most of the IWPA people I know are using fully enclosed kennels, Chain link, 15x15 or so and ~ 6-8 ft high...Doggie aint getting outta those..LOL

For tie outs some are using railroad ties either vertical or rebarred into the ground with winch cable (Strong and light...with a swivel makes a GREAT tie out and can be used on Runners too) for the tie out, or Runners....Besides the kennels, the Runners seem the most popular...Axles are just seen as over kill, unless of course you are using Civic axles and then you are on your own...LOL

With teh Winch cable and a runner, the dog gets plenty of exercise, you can even use a springpole in conjuction to give them something to do and they have plenty space, can't get at each other, and you can provide a decent shelter at one end for them too....Inexpensive, easy and very effective...

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Thanks a lot for your response.

[quote]Most of the IWPA people I know are using fully enclosed kennels, Chain link, 15x15 or so and ~ 6-8 ft high...Doggie aint getting outta those..LOL[/quote]

I have a few kennels, they really work great for pups. Although dogs can get out of that, height isn't the only issue as their is more ways to get out besides jump. I had a nice, big, kennel that size once.
[img]http://a3.cpimg.com/image/C3/FE/39076803-8526-01580112-.jpg[/img]
[img]http://a9.cpimg.com/image/BF/FD/39076799-1b81-014E00FB-.jpg[/img]
But I do think they are great and I've got a couple dogs chain inside kennels and use them for puppies.

[quote]For tie outs some are using railroad ties either vertical or rebarred into the ground with winch cable (Strong and light...with a swivel makes a GREAT tie out and can be used on Runners too) for the tie out, or Runners....Besides the kennels, the Runners seem the most popular...Axles are just seen as over kill, unless of course you are using Civic axles and then you are on your own...LOL[/quote]

[img]http://a3.cpimg.com/image/27/01/39076903-6738-01F20167-.jpg[/img]
How are axles seen as over kill? I mean why? Aren't they like any stake in the ground. Railroad ties?! That does sound like they would really work, like chaining a dog to a tree, they are probably not going to come out of the ground. But I'd much rather hammer a little axle in the ground for 5 mins, something that small, low to the ground and easy to "install" then mess with a railroad tie, but thats just me and I'm sure that railroad ties work great. I also had some one suggest to me the use of cables from a tractor supply store vs chains. I think these would work great if and hold up well, except for chewers. They had St Bernards and Mastiffs on them, I think. Nothing compared to a bulldog, but I bet they would still hold up good for them.

Again thanks for your response, its always nice to hear about "new" or different ideas of keeping dogs.

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