More PETA Cr**

[Pumpkin the musher]

Gentle peace- your opinions are in no way falling on deaf ears- I support your right to have your opinions, but I would have you consider this. The deer population problem in N. Wisconsin is due to many factors, most having to do with human intervention, or lack there-of. We have 1000's of acres of free, high nutrition deer food- everywhere.(corn and soy beans, not to mention my garden... :-? ) The population of natural predators could not be brought to a point that they would have an impact on the deer. We have both coyote and wolves where I live. Impact? Zero. The biggest impact is from vehicle/deer interaction, and hunting. I do admire and love deer- I feed them during hard winters if there is no standing corn and chop holes in our pond for them to get to water. I hunt exclusively on my property- in a normal day I will see upwards of 50 deer just on our 40 acres. I shoot the one that I have the best chance of killing outright. The assumption that it often takes more than one shot to kill a deer is patently untrue. I have hunted for 29 years, and have shot at least one deer every year. I have never lost a deer, and I would say that 90 % went down with one shot. Most high powered rifles are more than adequate to kill instantaneously these days. This idea is a hold over from the 50's when every deer hunter had a 30-30 caliber rifle, which is like a bb gun next to the 30-06, .308 and .270's used today. Am I an expert marksman? Yeah. You could say that. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone, but to attempting to foster a bit of tolerance for something that is often misunderstood .

[Guest Anonymous]

[b]Official Reponse from PeTA[/b]:

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Response was published in the paper: [url]http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentdisplay.asp?aid=8857&mode=print[/url]

PETA Responds to Mike Adams
Thursday, August 05, 2004



Dear Editor,

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) would like equal space to address the absurd comments in Mike S. Adams’ article, “PETA Principles” on July 31, 2004. Please consider the following submission:

I would be happy to answer the questions Mike Adams posed—or should I say his buddy “John” posed—about People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) in the July 31th article, “PETA Principles.”

1) PETA’s mission is to end animal suffering. Unlike animals, plants are devoid of a central nervous systems and nerve endings, so there is no reason to believe they feel pain. However, if “John” is so concerned, he should go vegetarian to help reduce plant killings. After all, by eating vegetables instead of animals, such as cows who must consume 16 pounds of vegetation in order to convert them into one pound of flesh, he would actually be saving many more plants’ lives.

2) Mice can feel pain, but there is no evidence that alfalfa sprouts can. However, if “John” believes everything deserves equal treatment, how does he justify petting a dog and eating a chicken? Animals deserve equal consideration of what is in their own best interests regardless of whether they are cute, useful to humans, or an endangered species.

3) This silly little plant debate seems to be a flimsy excuse for “John” not to go vegetarian. There is no question that animals suffer terribly on factory farms and in slaughterhouses. They are confined in filthy cages, warehouses, and sheds. Most never see the sun, breathe fresh air, or feel grass under their feet. They are torn from their loving mothers and are debeaked, branded, dehorned, and/or castrated without pain relief. During slaughter, they are often dismembered while they’re still fully conscious.

4) Lions could not survive if they didn’t kill antelopes for food. That is not the case for us. Many other animals are vegetarians, including some of our closest primate relatives.

5) PETA defends all animals whether they are “cute” or not. After all, “John” may not be all that handsome, but that doesn’t mean he should be tortured and killed for food or experimented on.

6) “John” should brush up on human anatomy. Human bodies are better suited for a vegetarian diet than a meat-based one. Carnivorous animals have claws, a short digestive tract, and long, curved fangs. In contrast, humans have flat, flexible nails, a long digestive tract, flat molars, and two tiny canine teeth that are better suited for biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides.

7) PETA supports anyone’s actions that help animals, even if they are not vegan. A person who works to help animals in laboratories, but not on factory farms is still helping to end more suffering than someone who doesn’t help animals in laboratories or on factory farms.

8 ) We may not know as much about a mollusk’s ability to feel pain compared to a fishes’, but here at PETA we prefer to err on the side of compassion and urge people to avoid eating sea animals of any kind. Those who crave the taste of shrimp, scallops, and other “seafood” can be order vegetarian versions from May Wah at PETAMall.com.

9) As I mentioned above, there is no evidence that plants feel pain. Fish, however, have the capacity to experience fear and pain, have sensitive nerve endings in their lips and mouths, and begin to slowly die of suffocation the moment they are pulled out of water.

10) PETA focuses its attention on the four areas in which the largest numbers of animals suffer the most intensely for the longest periods of time: on factory farms, in laboratories, in the fur trade, and in the entertainment industry. Just as the American Heart Association does not have a campaign to stop AIDS, and Amnesty International does not work to stop smoking, we have no plans to actively campaign against logging.

I’m afraid the rest of “John’s” questions are just too absurd to warrant an answer, however he is welcome to visit PETA.org for more information on PETA’s work.

Sincerely,

Heather Moore
Staff Writer
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
501 Front St.
Norfolk, VA 23510
757-962-8335

[Pumpkin the musher]

And this is relevant to this particular discussion in what way? (Other than referencing PETA. )


oops. never mind. I fgured it out... :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Pumpkin the musher']And this is relevant to this particular discussion in what way? (Other than referencing PETA. )


oops. never mind. I fgured it out... :oops:[/quote]

I was wondering why? I don't see how PETA's letter fits this discussion about hunting. Also, PETA doesn't go after logging? Only those things that cause long term suffering (Yeah okay) but they are complaining about hunters and people owning pets?

By the way when did guest get to start posting again?

[Guest Anonymous]

i was about to post that same peta post myself but i see that someone beat me to it. the post is a letter in response to one of the forum members here. he posted a bunch of questions in a letter form in this very thread, and this is the letter responding to his questions. very factual and well-reasoned answers in my opinion.

[Pumpkin the musher]

I consider PETA extreme in it's beliefs. That is my opinion. History has proven however that extremism in any form is doomed to failure, be it a political , religious , ethical or personal belief.

[courtnek]

no matter how rational PETA's answers may seem, they are typical PR BS.
canned answers. I agree with them that the treatment of "farmed" and "warehoused" slaughter animals is abhorant. I have been fighting that for years, but NOT thru PETA. I would not support PETA's stands on anything, since they say one thing to their "people" but do other things, deplorable things, to get their point across. By blowing up labs where animal research is done. By seeking the extermination of all Pit Bull's, and by trying to make having pets impossible. I dont buy the "they should be free and without human intervention" crap. WE bred them to be our companions and helpers. PETA likes to call them "servants", but has obviously never seen the joy on a hunting dogs face when she brings back
her kill, tail wagging madly, or a team of sled dogs running like mad and enjoying every minute of it. Or a Guide Dog, leading his blind master thru
traffic and obstacles. These dogs were BRED TO WORK. and enjoy it, in fact need it. Many people here could tell you the sad fate of Border Collies not allowed to herd. They get destructive, and bored. So they are our servants? THEY dont seem to think so. They take this "servitude" with joy in every interaction with their people.

Oh, and as far as "We may not know as much about a mollusk’s ability to feel pain compared to a fishes’, but here at PETA we prefer to err on the side of compassion and urge people to avoid eating sea animals of any kind."......did no one tell them they should have REMOVED the rubber bands from the lobsters claws before returning them to the sea? that they would DROWN and STARVE without the use of their claws? ooopppsss.no. guess not....

PETA (and mostly Ingrid and her merry band of fanatics) are in it for the MONEY and the PUBLICITY. I feel sorry for the poor underlings like you, who honestly believe this crap. I guess brainwashing isnt illegal if the brainwashee agrees to it....

[Pumpkin the musher]

Well said, Courtnek!

[Carolk9s]

QUOTE:
11) If PETA does launch a “plant rights” campaign, will it include weeds? If so, does that mean that your members will have to quit smoking weed?

Dangit, gotta clean the monitor screen AGAIN! Cracked me up that did!

Oops, time to apologize to my oppressed and cruelly imprisioned canine pals again.
Sorry about forcing the nutritious (and so tasty too) food on you every day.
Sorry for 'making' you cuddle up every chance you get, in bed and on the couch while watching tv or reading the newspaper.
Sorry for dragging you to the park and making you romp off leash and play chase me games with other equally oppressed canines.
Sorry for taking you to Petsmart even though I did not NEED anything from there, only went because I know how much you enjoy going.
Sorry for 'forcing' you to learn and run agility, you obviously hate it and it's terribly scary for you. That must be why you bounce in the air at the gate to the field and try to shove the gate open with your nose. Must also be fear and dislike that causes you to start running the course without me.
Sorry for INSISTING that you do not roam the streets and play in the road, I guess letting nature take its course and you getting hit by a car is far preferable to some.

Oh I'm sure I have MUCH MUCH MORE to apologize for but am too tired to think of it right now.

BTW, I support responsible hunting. If the hunter is not going to personally make use of the meat, I would hope they would transport it and donate it to a soup kitchen or other org.
Like BK, I too feel that people in parts of Asia eating dog is a part of THEIR society that I have no right to object too. I also agree that it is the inhumane way the dogs are treated prior to being killed that disgusts and sickens me.

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='guest'][b]Official Reponse from PeTA[/b]:

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Response was published in the paper: [url]http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentdisplay.asp?aid=8857&mode=print[/url]

PETA Responds to Mike Adams
Thursday, August 05, 2004




1) PETA's mission is to end animal suffering. [/quote]

What a VAGUE statement. It sounds all warm and fuzzy and is nothing but propaganda to draw on folks' good intentions (therefore more member$ and contributor$). I mean, who wouldn't want to "end animal suffering?" What does "end animal suffering" entail and who gets to decide? Since PETA believes that any ownership of animals at all constitutes animal suffering, are all you PETA supporters willing to give up your pets? If not, I believe all the PETA preaching to be nothing but hypocritical and lacking any credibility.

Reading the rest of that "rebuttal" made me want to know who I could see to get the last 2 minutes of my life back.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Horsefeathers!']
What a VAGUE statement. It sounds all warm and fuzzy and is nothing but propaganda to draw on folks' good intentions (therefore more member$ and contributor$). I mean, who wouldn't want to "end animal suffering?" What does "end animal suffering" entail and who gets to decide? Since PETA believes that any ownership of animals at all constitutes animal suffering, are all you PETA supporters willing to give up your pets? If not, I believe all the PETA preaching to be nothing but hypocritical and lacking any credibility.

Reading the rest of that "rebuttal" made me want to know who I could see to get the last 2 minutes of my life back.[/quote]

Well of course you do know PETA's way of ending animal suffering don't you?

According to what I've been reading (Quote on previous pages) it means having a "shelter" where people think their animals are going to be rehomed but they are KILLED right away.

Don't you know it's better to be dead than loved?

[courtnek]

[quote]PETA continually complains that humans are a blight on the earth. We are a part of the ecosystem, and cannot separate ourselves from it. That doesn't mean that we have free license to abuse our resources, but it does mean that in my mind there is nothing wrong with having a turkey sandwich.
[/quote]


THIS is why these people scare me. So, we let all the dogs and cats become extinct, or die off in the "running free" phase by cars, starvation, and other animals. Of course, there will be no more pets, so all the guinea pigs, and birds, and white mice and reptiles, all will be "released into the
wild", to die from lack of knowledge on how to LIVE in the wild....and since no one will ever eat meat again, all the cows and steers will be set loose as well. and turkey, and pigs, and you get the drift. so now no one owns pets, or fram animals, or eats meat. Since PETA thinks humans are a
blight to the earth, will they then demand that we all die too? Leave the planet to the wild animals and the plants? OK, a little over the top, I know, but this is what happens when fanaticism takes hold. Hitler again comes to mind......

[imported_Cassie]

Those PETA people sound like crazed lunatics :o
I was just reading this portion of the thread
[quote]8 ) We may not know as much about a mollusk’s ability to feel pain compared to a fishes’, but here at PETA we prefer to err on the side of compassion and urge people to avoid eating sea animals of any kind. Those who crave the taste of shrimp, scallops, and other “seafood” can be order vegetarian versions from May Wah at PETAMall.com.

9) As I mentioned above, there is no evidence that plants feel pain. Fish, however, have the capacity to experience fear and pain, have sensitive nerve endings in their lips and mouths, and begin to slowly die of suffocation the moment they are pulled out of water. [/quote]

This got me thinking, we do not know much about head lice and other parasites ability to feel pain. So here on Dogomania, we have decided to release all of our poor unloved parasites (including scabies, head lice and other parasites) to the group of PETA. At PETA they may honor these lovely little parasites and provide a safe haven for them to thrive which would be their own bodies. It would be anti PETA to kill these poor little parasites who also deserve a place on this planet. Let us allow the PETA crew to be the host for these poorly misunderstood little creatures...I mean after all, all they want is a little blood, bile and love...all creatures deserve that right....don't they??? :wink:

Just to add to this thread, I come from a family of hunters. We have enjoyed many delisious dinners of Caribou, white tailed deer, partridge, trout etc. This is what these creatures were put on this earth for. They are food. I hate to be blunt about it as I love to watch a deer run free etc. but, every animal has its reason for being on earth.
One more thing to add, PETA seems to think that humans can survive as pure vegetarians....perhaps this day and age they could with the additions of tofu etc. into the diet to make up for the lost B vitamins. There are certain vitamins which can only be found in meat, man would not have survived if it were not for including meat in the diet. This is a known fact, and a reason why true vegetarians must be so careful when planning their vegetarian diet. How would our ancestors of yesteryear have figured out how to plan a veggie diet??? :roll: we humans are omnivorous.

[Shenanigans]

We have deer *in* Toronto. And I do mean Toronto, not the GTA, I've seen them hanging around one of our major routes to get too and from downtown, and if it were to climb on that particular parkway, well, I can say with safety that there would be some serious injuries.

That said, I don't really understand the thrill of the hunt in terms of killing. I do eat meat and enjoy it, I don't think I would do well on a vegetarian diet, my husband tried and even though it was carefully balanced, he was pretty sick, as was his cousin. I pretty much view eating meat as a necessity, and I recognise that hunting in many parts is a necessity, but I don't think I'll ever connect with the reason why ending a life in enjoyable. Perhaps it's my religious views coming from native spirituality.

PETA is something that gets my blood boiling. An organisation that shows such great contempt for people and animals by their extreme acts likening to terrorism has no right in preaching about treating creatures humanely. Lest the fact escapes them, that we too are animals.

[Guest Anonymous]

Mei-It would let me send a PM for some reason but I wanted to ask if that was the Temple over in Algeirs. My brother in law is a member of that temple (or at least his younger brother was before he was killed March of 2000).

Just my curious mind. If you'd prefer you can email me.