More PETA Cr**

[courtnek]

this post started on another forum with a long lecture on why sport hunting is bad. I dont argue that, but I posted about part of it, which is clearly wrong. and would like your opinions please. Do you have "free wandering deer" in your area?


From me:I am against hunting for sport and always have been. However, I have friends who hunt, mostly bird hunting, and they do eat the kill. They have pheasant and quail for Thanksgiving, and its very good. They hunt with a weimaraner, trained to retrieve.

as far as this quote, it is simply wrong.

Quote:
Myth: Hunting is a necessary management tool that controls "surplus" animals and prevents overpopulation and starvation.

State wildlife agencies often argue that our cities and rural lands would be overrun with wild animals if hunting were disallowed. However, the biological truth is that animals regulate their own populations, based upon available food and habitat. In nature, unaltered by humans, there is no such thing as a "surplus" animal.



come to MY neck of the woods. There are so many surplus deer here, that at least one gets hit by a car EVERY DAY. My son hit one with his truck. In a highly populated, strip mall overrun area of the CITY I live in. It was heading for a small patch of forest preserve behind the strip malls, and crossed a 4-lane interstate road to get there. Not only did it cost me hundreds of dollars in repair to the truck, it lost its leg and died in the process. Yes, lost its leg. It got ripped off by the impact with the truck. Do you find this an easier, more humane death than being shot? The leg flew up on the hood and impacted with the windshield. Try visualizing that for a minute.

in all honesty, there is no such thing as "...nature, unalterd by humans..." and that wont change anytime soon.

BTW, the coyotes and fox have moved back into the area, probably because the deer, possums, racoons and various other prey animals are here in ABUNDANCE....

coincidence? I dont think so.


from her: That is because many hunted species are farmed by the government to boost huntin liscence sales.

Tell me your state, and I'll show you all the farms in it.

Responsefrom her:

Pruchniaks Deer Farm
Wauconda, IL P: (847) 526-1183

my response: my point is made. The closest one is Wauconda, which is 15-20 miles from here, and all the rest are in middle to southern illinois, where there is a lot more open space. I really DONT think those deer from Wauconda wandered here. The deer HERE are breeding because there is a lot of forest preserve space to feed from, and there are NO natural predators (up until lately) to keep them in line. so much for they wont overpopulate on their own.

she had no response to that. no counter argument. nothing.

I am upset, because this is what PETA is teaching people (she is a member) and its completely UNTRUE!!! While I dont agree wiht sports hunting, too many people get killed from impact with a deer. If I hit one, in my little Beetle, I would probably not survive it. My sons truck has a
steel bumper in front, which took the majority of the blow, but the scene was VERY UGLY....

opinions, please?

[Lokipups]

Amazing what people will believe when spoon fed information by militants :o .
I live 15 minutes outside of Manhattan, and there are more deer here than you can shake a stick at :-? . I have no problem with hunting as long as whatever you kill, you use. I wouldn't/couldn't do it myself, but as long as you aren't doing it strictly for the sport of it, I think it's needed to control the overpopulation, considering the last time I saw wolves in NJ was around the 12th of never.

[quote]State wildlife agencies often argue that our cities and rural lands would be overrun with wild animals if hunting were disallowed. However, the biological truth is that animals regulate their own populations, based upon available food and habitat. In nature, unaltered by humans, there is no such thing as a "surplus" animal. [/quote]
I find this statement almost funny. In real "nature", you have all the available species to control the populus of the forest. BUT, whereas deer will be happy to traipse through your backyard in search of a meal, their natural predators (wolves, coyotes) will not be so quick to follow.
Sigh, PETA makes me ill, if they had their way, nobody would own a pet of any kind, blind people wouldn't have guide dogs, and we'd all overdose on soy and tofu :P .

[Kiger]

Okay, I have deer in my yard and I live 10 miles from Wasington D.C. My parents have deer, my in-laws have deer... there are deer EVERYWHERE around here. I see at least one dead one on the road every day. My husband hit one a few months back - 50 miles per hour with a Jeep Wrangler. Ouch.
We have so many deer I have seen 4 separate herds in my in-laws neighborhood alone. There are no farms here and only small strips of woods. There are, however, some larger yards with lovely flower beds that make ideal grazing areas for deer. I wish someone would thin the herds, but anytime someone puts forth the idea, the PETA nuts go apeshit. (And PETA's claims about nearly everything are bunk. I personally feel they do tremendous damage to their cause with their shrill bleating and idiotic and offensive publicity stunts.)
Oh yeah, and I've also seen a coyote in a densely populated commercial area.

[courtnek]

keep the replies coming. I intend to post them, unless someone doesnt want me too. the deer need to be controlled. by hunting, or whatever means, but they are dying painfully, and causing pain to people who hit them, not meaning to.

thanks!!!!

[Seijun]

There are not a LOT of deer here, but there are enough that hitting one isn't uncommon. I live in a rural area though, so I guess I don't count :oops:

~Seij

[science_doc]

I used to hunt deer and small game back home in Wisconsin. We would eat every bit of meat we brought home, far healthier and way less fatty than good old beef. Anyway I used to spend huge amounts of time in the woods because my first career attempt was wildlife biology. The problem with critters like deer, squirels, racoons, rabbits, etc are that they THRIVE in the "edge of the woods" kind of communities created by suburban sprawl. Even better that in places like Wisconsin there are vast corn buffets between the subdivisions. My parents must have planted about 2 dozen rose gardens and every year eaten to the ground by deer. Those da** deer were so tame you could open up the patio door and scream and they would just flick their tail. Anyway my point is that preditors like wolves don't really seem to enjoy that kind of close proximity to people. If you think you want them in all up close and personal I think you better get the cats, dogs, and children in off the streets first. How often do we hear stories of mountain lions killing people and pets in California? Allowing nature to take it's course in and amongst people just won't work, never has never will. I also worry about disease being a more painful end than being hit by cars......I wonder if the deer herd in Wisconsin picked up the "mad cow" like encephalopathy due to close proximity with herd animals like cows, sheep, and goats? Over population is never good for the health/immunity of the herd. There is no way that deer farms are responsible for the huge deer herds in the midwest, when was the last time you saw a wild cow/sheep/goat wandering about? PETA give me a break!

[courtnek]

OK Mei, I have to ask. what does squirrel taste like? (Hard to define, I know)....I have had venison, both in steaks, and jerky (venison jerky is phenomenal) and Pheasant, quail, duck, I have heard possum is tasty, but never eat any. I have eaten rattlesnake. No, it doesnt taste like chicken. but more like the texture of lobster, and is very bland without seasoning.
My sister lives in the montains, and thought she would gross me out...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

also, Emu. from a friend in Canada, where it is very popular. It's a big bird, but the meat is mostly dark and its very tasty.

[pitbullEmily]

well, in the long term, absent extreme influences, wildlife populations do self-regulate. They ebb/flow in accordance with habitat and food availability as well as climatic conditions. This does not mean, of course, that populations are static.

In the real world, humans constitute an extreme influence! Deer populations cannot "self regulate". For one thing, there are no natural predators in most places (certainly not enough to impact their populations). For another, white tail deer have adapted extremely well to human settlement and have reached pest levels in many places (like Canada geese). There's nothing "natural" about the population abundance of this species in rural/suburban areas.

If there were no humans (or only native subsistence hunters) there wouldn't be any problems. There would actually probably be fewer deer.

The consequence of not controlling deer population is... more fatal car accidents, more tick-borne diseases, etc.

HOW to control deer is controversial, since they are living in heavily populated areas where hunting may not be safe.

But this is yet another example of the biological illiteracy of PETA... as if we needed another one.

[pitbullEmily]

[quote name='science_doc']I... Anyway my point is that preditors like wolves don't really seem to enjoy that kind of close proximity to people. If you think you want them in all up close and personal I think you better get the cats, dogs, and children in off the streets first. How often do we hear stories of mountain lions killing people and pets in California? ...[/quote]

mountain lions are extremely effective predators of deer. I actually think California has fewer problems with pest deer than folks in the midwest and east.

While mountain lions have become a small problem in California as humans have increasingly invaded their habitat, they really are NOT a huge problem for people (less than dogs, to be honest) despite the few highly sensational cases of lion attacks.. As for pets, coyotes are probably a bigger cause of vanishing pets anyway.... they don't hesitate to come in close contact with people, while lions generally don't. Wolves are the other effective predator of deer and they are much much more elusive than either coyotes or lions. There are only a very very very few verified wolf attacks on humans in North America.

The biggest threat to us and our animals is probably raccoons, since they carry rabies and are very bold/adaptable.

[Beautiful Border Collie]

There are a lot of deer around here in Wisconsin. I see them everyday. People sometimes get killed by hitting them, on cycles or cars. I dont know anybody who hunts for sport. They all hunt and then take the carcass to be processed. Even the hide gets used. When i fish, i let the fish go. Unless i am on vacation where the water is cleaner! Fish poplulation also needs to be controlled. When animals populate rapdily and nothing is done about it, they develop diseases and die a painfull death. Chronic wasting disease is affecting our deer all around the US.
Mostly the animals or fish starve from the overpopulation. We have a strange new predator here. Its part coyote and looks part Hyena? We also have cougars, bears and wolves, more than ever. Lately bears are coming around homes. I am more scared of wild dogs let loose around my place than bears or wolves. Now im scaring myself :o I got to take my doggies out soon and its so dark and the factory next door has a guard dog that is NOT inside its fence! The dog somehow got out and is walking around. YIKES!!!! Will take my pepper spray with me. Wish me luck :(

[mouseatthebusstop]

I want my meat killed in a humane way I will pick it up from the supermarket
I do not agree with hunts- our MP has been trying to ban them in our area There are other ways of entertainment

[pitbullEmily]

[quote name='mouseatthebusstop']I want my meat killed in a humane way I will pick it up from the supermarket
I do not agree with hunts- our MP has been trying to ban them in our area There are other ways of entertainment[/quote]

You might want to examine your assumptions.
Many slaughterhouse techniques are far from humane.

A clean kill done in a fair chase hunt, with the animal used for food, leather, etc is at least as humane a death and is at least as moral. If you're not a vegetarian, you really can't argue against doing the killing yourself as opposed to buying meat neatly packaged in a way that distances you from the animal whose death sustains you.

I personally don't hunt, but I know many people who do. Many of them are staunch environmentalists and care more about the animals they kill than many people who oppose hunting.

Sadly, there are also the cretinous macho morons whose only interest is in mowing down God's creatures for blood lust and/or a trophy on the wall.

[courtnek]

[quote name='pitbullEmily'][quote name='mouseatthebusstop']I want my meat killed in a humane way I will pick it up from the supermarket
I do not agree with hunts- our MP has been trying to ban them in our area There are other ways of entertainment[/quote]

You might want to examine your assumptions.
Many slaughterhouse techniques are far from humane.

A clean kill done in a fair chase hunt, with the animal used for food, leather, etc is at least as humane a death and is at least as moral. If you're not a vegetarian, you really can't argue against doing the killing yourself as opposed to buying meat neatly packaged in a way that distances you from the animal whose death sustains you.

I personally don't hunt, but I know many people who do. Many of them are staunch environmentalists and care more about the animals they kill than many people who oppose hunting.

Sadly, there are also the cretinous macho morons whose only interest is in mowing down God's creatures for blood lust and/or a trophy on the wall.[/quote]


I have to agree with this. A clean shot is a much more humane, less painful death than getting hit by a car, or some of the methods the uglier slaughterhouses use. I dont personally hunt, although I would learn if I had to since I am no stranger to firing a gun. But that would only be to survive. I would never engage is sport hunting.

there does need to be a way to control the surplus deer population though.

[Pumpkin the musher]

I personally love to deer hunt, it's one of my favorite times of year. This will be my 29th year hunting, and I look forward to it more each year. Does this mean I like to kill things? Absolutely not. I've been around guns my entire life- my father was a gunsmith- he not only fixed guns, but he [i]made them[/i],from scratch. They were, and are, works of art, with hand carved and tooled stocks, inlays and ingraving. The deer we shoot are used, [u]always[/u], nothing ever goes to waste. The meat and fat that is not fit for human consumption is cooked and fed to the dogs; the bones are ground and added to the garden and the hide is tanned and used to make leather. I'm in northern Wisconsin, and the deer population here is extraordinary. The weekend [u]after[/u] deer season last year, my husband and I drove around our neighborhood, maybe 8 miles total, and counted 167 deer. 167. I don't have much time for "sport hunting" either, where people are focused only on shooting a deer with the biggest antlers. That being said, it's still exciting when a big one runs over the hill...
In 2001, I got a chance not only to fill the freezer, but get a once in a lifetime buck. (That's the original Pumpkin there in the pic with me) I also practise shooting; allot, to insure that what I shoot at is killed instantly. I agree that a slauughterhouse is definitely less humane..
[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UwDVAtwYVQDpyaJEJ8cnbgZ2iTbWv7Kup5DKsv6fkAI!Gc3kJ459mNkOvwNxvyW*Lv1nT!DgpabHSG9ov!LdRxTRK**l!k1gXz1MlCPgkF9RMnfvTzUnwb0e8fp0bRtN/75595_04.jpg?dc=4675475529664986908[/img]

[bk_blue]

I can't comment on the deer, mountain lion, coyote, wolf etc (so exotic LOL). But there are plenty of kangaroos; in fact, there are way too many and a lot of them were culled not so long ago. The land couldn't cope with so many roos (drought etc) and the roos were starving to death as well. The culling was horrible becuse the people they used weren't great shooters and a lot of them ended up dying a slow agonising death, and there was no discretion with the shooting either. To shoot mothers with joeys I thought was particularly abhorrent. I don't know what happened to the carcasses but kangaroo meat is a common pet meat here and also you can buy it for humans. It's quite strong and rich. I can understand that a cull was necessary and certainly humane if done properly, but I think there were some cruel aspects to it. Same with hunting. I could never, ever hunt but my family used to and they used to do it so they had food to eat. PETA are living in a dream world. Can't they see that we, as inhabitants of the earth with an assumed duty of care to other animals, need to protect them by killing some of them off? That sounds weird and I probbaly could have said it better but you know what I mean. :)

[DogPaddle]

Wildlife populations naturally fluctuate.
Predator populations fluctuate with prey populations.
In an "uninterupted" system sometimes there are a shortage of prey (deer for example) and sometimes there is a surplus. This natural system does keep itself in check in many ways, for instance any surplus deer starve over the winter. This system works to ensure that the genetically superior examples of the species survive to procreate.
Human hunting styles do not follow this pattern, often the most genetically superior of a species are the prized deer etc. Prey really have no chance against us - we are super-predators. We upset the natural system fairly effectively. We often do this first by eliminating other effective predators that do hunt in ways that eliminate genetically weak prey such as wolves.
Wolves used to hunt all over North America and are the prey most closely associated with deer population. We find wolves inconvenient, especially where we have livestock (although there are a lot of myths around this.) We have effectively reduced predator populations to the point where they do not keep deer populations in check properly. As reintroduction of appropriate predators is not likely to occur, hunting might be the solution if we committed to doing so in a way that reinforced genetic soundness. This would mean trying to discourage people from going for the big healthy 7 point buck and encourage them to go for the slower or injured or not as well fed deer.

[Beautiful Border Collie]

congrats on the buck Pumpkin! :D

Where about in Wisconsin are you? Im over by Lake Winnebago.

[Guest Anonymous]

i am sure my opinions wont be popular with you posters. I am a vegan and a supporter of Peta. What i find ironic is that you are obviously dog lovers but subjecting other animals to death and misery is somehow justified? In Korea and China they eat dog and cat just as meat eaters in n. america eat cow and pig. Whats the difference? IMO it just depends upon how one is socialized.

Personally i cant understand how one can be an "animal lover" and yet hunt or eat animals.

Someone posted that the hunter loves or has a fondness for the deer... gimme a break. if they like it so much than why in the world would they end its life?

i know someone will question me as to what should be done with the deer over population. well imo humans have created the problem (as we are really the only ones responsible for all of the problems in the natural world) so we should invest some tax dollars in things like re-location. besides which when the deer reach a critical point of population the food source will diminish and the predators will increase thus the ebb and flow of natures built in "population control."

also, hunting, though better than factory farming where animals spend their entire miserable, pain-filled lives in tiny pens and cages never seeing sunlight, is by no means humane. unless one is an expert marksman it almost always takes more than one shot to take down the animal. During this time the animal is in extreme pain as it just had its ear shot off etc.

anyway i know my ideas are falling on deaf ears, but i thought it important to provide the other side of the issue even though i may as well be talking to the walls. Perhaps someone will read it and see some sort of logic/truth.

[Bubblezzz]

Coming from a teeny city-state, just the thought of 'hunting' seems darn exotic to me. :lol: So, I don't know enough to comment on this issue. Although I have to say: as long as the 'hunt' is consumed and used for gainful purposes, it seems pretty ok to me.

I doubt the regular US slaughterhouse is any more humane. :-? (Read "Fast Food Nation" a while back. Scary stuff!)

I consider myself an 'animal lover' but I love my meat. :oops: I guess I can see how this would seem like a paradox to a vegan.

Dogs don't even really classify as 'animal' to me. :lol: I don't know of any other species we share our lives with so intrinsically. Dogs hunt, they seek, search, rescue, risk their lives, provide 'love' and companionship - to millions of humans on a DAILY basis. This partnership that we share dates back some 12,000 years. Some scientists even argue that they might have given us a much needed edge over our ancestral cousins, the neanderthals, and that's why we homo sapiens have thrived. :lol:

I think the relationship between man and dog - esp. the understanding we can have we them - is divine. :oops:

This doesn't mean that I think of the rest of nature as having a lesser value of course. I think we all have our place, and that no one species deserves less of a right to a good life than another. (Including us humans.) But I also respect that there are necessary 'violent' sides to nature. To eat or be eaten - that's nature. We just happen to sit on top of the food chain. :-?

What I find unacceptable, unconscionable and highly disturbing are the human practices of grossly PROFITEERING off plain ABUSE. :x Keeping animals cooped up, penned up, de-beaking, clamping them down to a single fence, injecting them full of hormones, taking away their young - these to me are practices that are truely inhumane. To treat animals like that - that these are conscious decisions made by a human being in power! - that's really freaky to me. :(

I think humans can do a lot more - and that there's no clear 'right' or 'wrong' answer. :-? Personally, I think I do my bit best by doing things like buying organic whenever possible, and of course, treating the animals here in my life with as much love and respect that I would like for myself. :-?

[bk_blue]

[quote name='gentle_peace']i am sure my opinions wont be popular with you posters. I am a vegan and a supporter of Peta. What i find ironic is that you are obviously dog lovers but subjecting other animals to death and misery is somehow justified? In Korea and China they eat dog and cat just as meat eaters in n. america eat cow and pig. Whats the difference? IMO it just depends upon how one is socialized.

Personally i cant understand how one can be an "animal lover" and yet
hunt or eat animals.[/quote]

I do not mind if dogs and cats etc etc are eaten in China, though I could never ever do it. Far be it from me to impose my cultural imperalism on other States. What bothers me is the disgusting conditions they are kept in and the cruel fashions of their deaths, just as many abbatoirs and saleyards have similar practices in the Western world. I know a lot of people who are repulsed that we Australians eat kangaroo, or "Skippy". Besides humans have been hunting since the year dot, and as Mufasa so eloquently put it, animals hunt each other too. Do you think it is cruel when a spider tortures a fly, or a cat tortures a rat or a bug? Is it any better or worse than what humans do to cows, sheep, pigs...?
What I find ironic is that all the vegans and veggos I *personally* know (and I know lots because every second bloody uni student is a vegan these days) wear leather shoes... :roll:

[Kiger]

[quote name='gentle_peace']Personally i cant understand how one can be an "animal lover" and yet hunt or eat animals.[/quote]

I guess you hate animals then. Better not walk outside - you might step on an ant. Everything you do from driving a car to USING THAT COMPUTER causes animal death. So you can go curl up in a ball in the corner now.

How many animals got ground up in the field that produced your vegan soy? I forgot they're "collateral damage" - out of sight, out of mind. HYPOCRITE

I could care less what you eat, but when you try to enforce it on me you can go stuff yourself. And you are certainly NOT an animal lover if you support PETA.
PETA is all about controlling people. If they spent as much money helping animals as they do on their stupid publicity stunts, they might actually do some good. Well, except that their version of "helping animals" means driving them extinct - dog, cats, anything "man-made".
That means ending all pet ownership, ceasing all interaction between people and animals, and forcing veganism on the world.

[quote]"The cat, like the dog, must disappear..... We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist."

-John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of a Changing Ethic, PETA 1982, p.15.[/quote]

and a couple from our animal loving friend Ingrid..

[quote]"...Eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship, enjoyment at a distance."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Harpers, August, 1988[/quote]

[quote]"In a perfect world, all other than human animals would be free of human interference, dogs and cats would part of the ecological scheme."
PETA's Statement on Companion Animals[/quote]

And they are such warm and fuzzy little people haters..

[quote]I believe that this decade will see the first acts of true violence. Some may be accidental - like a bystander killed in a bomb blast; some will be deliberate - like a vivesector shot in the street. The violence will
confuse and divide us, but it will be a temporary adjustment and then we
will learn to live with it.
-Victoria Miller, ARKI: Canadian Animal Rights Network, and former
President, Toronto Humane Society
(_Animals_Agenda_)[/quote]

But seeing as you're statement above looks surprisingly like this one, I bet you don't care.
[quote]"Humans have grown like cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of
the planet."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Reader's Digest, June, 1990[/quote]

When you join PETA do you get a little card with all of Ingrid's quotes on it so you can regurgitate the party line whenever the need arises?

Oh and don't bother replying to this. I've wasted enough time on this already. I'm sure all those direct quotes from your animal loving friends will just bounce off your head and be ignored anyway.

[Guest Anonymous]

[url]http://forum.dogomania.com/posting.php?mode=reply&t=14566[/url]

Some how the link above doesn't ring to me as humane treatment of animals by PETA.

Some more quotes by PETA curtousy of: [url]http://fins.actwin.com/nanf/month.200004/msg00047.html[/url]


My ideal is "a return to the garden of Eden where even the animals are
vegetarian."
-Andrea Reed, Louisville Fund for Animals
(_Lexington_Herald_, 1990


We feel animals have the same rights as a retarded human child.
-Alex Pacheco (PETA)
(_New_York_Times_, Jan 14, 1989


Still looking for the quote where Ingrid makes excuses for her using pig derived Insulin...man if the president is that big of a hypocrite what is the rest of the membership like?

Can't find the orginial source but pulled this off of a page I've since clicked off of.

"I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic.
Twice a day I take synthetically
manufactured insulin that still contains
some animal products--and I have no
qualms about it." Sweetland adds,
"I don't see myself as a hypocrite.
I need my life to fight for the rights
of animals." -Mary Beth Sweetland,
PETA

[abker17]

[quote]11) If PETA does launch a “plant rights” campaign, will it include weeds? If so, does that mean that your members will have to quit smoking weed?[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Great post Sashagirl!

[piperstubbys]

Another wonderful view from Peta members -
Let's save the lives of all animals so they can live wihtout us terrible humans - But - first let's kill all of the Pit Bulls, or at least weed them out by doing free spay / neuters on Pit Bulls - to control the population of them so they will eventually all die out. What a great point of view, so happy there are so many card carring members to support that cause, Lord knows we want the cows and deer to be happy and the chickens to live in piece but all the Pit Bulls can die, what the hell kind of logic is that? I have read this before on a Peta site and have been told this by Peta members and the Peta member running the little van that does the spay / neuter in Chesapeake Va said this flat out and that it was Peta' way to deal with such terrible creatures.
Bunch of crap.

[courtnek]

[quote]"In a perfect world, all other than human animals would be free of human interference, dogs and cats would part of the ecological scheme."
PETA's Statement on Companion Animals[/quote]

absolutely impossible. the dog and housecat of today could not live long healthy lives in the wild. they no longer have the tools, although I give cats better odds than dogs. Feral cats "make it", but its not pretty and its not a long, happy life curled up in someone's lap. it consists of being cold, underfed, chased by other animals. hit by cars. dogs and cats were never really part of the ecological scheme. they were developed by people, for companionship, because they were worshipped, to help man do his daily tasks easier. the really ridiculous part of PETA's lies is that they somehow
think our pets would be better off "running free", or becoming extinct.
I wonder if they know that? Animals kept decently in a good home with lots of love and care, bond to their owners, not hate them.

as far as being a vegen, I dont care what anybody eats. We are all part of the circle of life, including humans. Man developed as a carnivore/omnivore, and remains an omnivore today. Wolves are basically carnivores, although they can and will eat anything available if necessary, including digging up roots and tubers if hungry enough. If given a choice, however, the wolf would choose meat. and to get the meat he needs, he has to kill another animal. or feed on one something else killed. either way the prey animal has to die. that is the way life goes.

to have to resort to terrorism to get your point across just proves to me that not many people are listening....and blowing up buildings is not going to make them run to join your side.