hounddogdaddy Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 ok i have a 2 1/2 month old basset hound he loves to bite / nibble as some of u know... i was reading a training guide it said . when your dog gets cought in middle of doing something bad grab the back of hes neck and pinch hard enough to make him whimmper once ..it says this is how hes morther punished him so ..he will no hes doing something wrong..like my dog like to grr and bite my hand ..he acts like its a game ..right now all i have been doing is i hold hes mouth shut for few sec and say BAD DOG... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 With all of the litters I have helped raised in the past 30 years...from coming out of the birthing canal until they leave...I have NEVER seen a female dog scruff a pup or bite a pup. The only bitches I have heard about doing horrible things like these to pups were never bred again as they were bad mothers. As K said, mother dogs are quite gentle, they nudge they clean...they never nip or bite the puppies. I think some people have been watching too many wild life shows :roll: With puppies they learn about bite inhibitation from playing with the other pups. When one pup gets too rowdy and bites too hard the pup on the receiving end will yelp and not play with that particular pup for a little while. The rough pup learns that in order to play properly he/she has to control the level of the puppy bites. This is "learned" behavior. Next time your pup bites you, yelp and abruptly walk away ending the game. After some time out go back and play again...the pup will soon learn that to keep his play partner he will have to play in a much more softer manner. Remember as well, our pups explore the world with their mouths, just as human babies explore the world with their hands...would you scruff a human baby for picking up items and putting them in their mouth??? no, you would take the item away and give the baby another toy which is safe and will hold the interest. Another issue to point out is HOW you are playing with your pup. Don't encourage biting games and wrestling matches, tug o war. I find some owners are very naive when it comes to playing with their pups. If you encourage rough play, then you are creating a bad dog. You do not need to use forceful or negetive training procedures with pups and dogs. You can create a good dog by rewarding for good behavior and ignoring the bad behavior. Dogs will repeat actions which give it rewards or attention...so be sure to direct your pups good behavior by rewarding all the good things. I have trained all of my dogs with positive only training, all of my dogs were adults and had MANY bad behaviors, I was able to bring out the "good" dogs in each of them and have even gotten my obedience titles on my 4 Newfoundland dogs. My dogs are also eager to please me, there is nothing worse than seeing a person train there dogs using negetive training and the dog will obey, but, it is frightened of making a mistake...they are also usually afraid to try new things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounddogdaddy Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 for everything u read theres about 20 things that say do diffrent...i'm still doing postive training stuff ..my dad thinks being to nice to the dog thats why misbehaving so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounddogdaddy Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 hey look at it this way at least i'm asking befor doing...thats one of main reason i joined the forum for everyones input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDG Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 hounddogdaddy, please buy the book "the other end of the leash" by patricia mcconnell and take to heart what she has to say. it's one of the best dog training books i've ever read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 [quote]for everything u read theres about 20 things that say do diffrent...i'm still doing postive training stuff ..my dad thinks being to nice to the dog thats why misbehaving so much...[/quote] There is a big difference between being "nice" to your dog and "spoiling" your dog. A dog which has no rules and rules the roost is a spoilt dog. This is due to the owner not enforcing any rules at all. You can create a wonderful dog by using the NIFIL program where the pup/dog has to earn every thing it receives. This gives you lots of control, and when the pup/dog is unsure of himself he will default to his earning behavior such as a sit command. Do as TDG advised and pick up the bood the other end of the leash... another good book to pick up is, "After you get your puppy" by Dr. Ian Dunbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 good grief! i am not trying to be rude and please don't take it that way but i have watched the progression of your posts and i can no longer hold my tongue! at first i thought you might be a wacko wiseacre who was asking these questions to incite a riot on a forum where "do no harm" is the motto. now tho i am not so sure. maybe you genuinely need advice about raising a pup. i hope this is the case and i do hope you take our advice to heart. the first thing i would say to you is discard all the garbage material from which you are getting your info. the other end of the leash by pat mcconnell is an excellent suggestion <click and treat for TDG> another couple books you might invest in are culture clash by jean donaldson and the power of positive dog training by pat miller. next, stop taking advice (on dog training) from your father! our fathers' generation had some really old fashioned ideas about how and what to do to train dogs. ear pinching, ear biting, scruffing, helicoptering all totally unnecessary. whatever it is you hope to accomplish in training can be done more quickly and efficiently with postive methods. physical punishment to me is just not an option. would you ever dream of beating your children into submission? ever heard the phrase violence begets violence? you could end up with more serious problems. positive training is not only humane but very easy -- how can you go wrong with praise/treats for being a good dog?! let me ask you this -- when the pup is mouthing and biting you what are you doing? are you playing with him in a manner to make him more mouthy? for instance do you shake a toy near his mouth to get his attention? alot of times people actually unkowingly promote mouthy play. men in general (sorry) tend to play rougher with dogs. my suggestion is this -- the first time he mouths or nips immediately yipe or say no and play ceases for a couple minutes. you ignore him completely. when he has calmed resume and repeat if necessary. now it is important to stop it the very first time he nips. i have had people say to me well the first two didn't really hurt so i let them slide! no matter, if the dog is to learn that humans are not chew toys then he must be coached everytime he makes that mistake. try it. be consistent and if you truly need help the people here are more than qualified and happy to give advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hounddogdaddy Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 well to answer the bitting thing yes we are playing sometimes but from what i read it says you shouldn't use your hands directly to play with a puppy...for whole bitting thing like my toes i was thinking of getting some bad tasting spray they sale . on another note i haven't try any of bad methods idol stuff that has come alone ..the method you are speaking of i'm doing .. now for whole dad thing i have to disagree my father is retired military so yeah some of he's child rasing skills where rough but he he had 7 of use to deal with and i'm he's only real son ..i think parents today are to damn soft ,i'm sick & tired of whinny kids you talk shit to parents because parents dont beleave in punishment...kids are to damn spoiled today ../end of rant on that ...thx for advice :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 hey i am a military brat too :) my father was stern without being physical. i think you can be a leader to your dog (parent to your children) without the use of physical force. trish mcconnell calls it being a benevolent leader. your job is to teach and nuture this dog as well as to protect it. i can totally respect your father, my father, parents in general because they do what they have to and what they think is best. i am just suggesting we use their experience, the studies of others etc to improve upon these methods. i do agree with you that there has been some breakdown in the parent/child relationship but i don't think hitting is an acceptable tool -- what does that teach them? there are much better ways to coach your children. to clarify i am not preaching no punishment -- there is punishment (both + and -) in this training method allbeit it is used sparingly. all i am saying it that the correction does not have to be physical. ok i digress. on the toe biting. you certainly could spray the bitter apple on your toes and that might deter the nibbles. however be warned there are dogs that do not find the taste that offensive. i think the yipe or ouch or no will work here too. yipe -- remove yourself -- and ignore for a few minutes. come back with something appropriate to chew on. hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Hounddogdaddy - Keep at the all positive method and make sure you do a lot of NILIF to back it up. Please keep in mind the all positive approach can be a bit slower than "the old methods" and some people will give you flak over it but stick to your guns and don't let them step in and undo all the postive work you'll be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 only positive methods should be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrless Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 wow, i know this is a frustrating one, especially the toe-biting, good Lord that's awful! :o when my Elkhound mix was a puppy he would actually ambush us like a cat...anyway, i think folks here have given you some really good advice. if the bitter spray doesn't work (and it didn't on my crazy pooch!) something citrus-flavored might, most dogs and cats have an aversion to that for some reason. At any rate I just wanted to give you some encouragement. This DOES stop eventually! Good luck! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperstubbys Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 What we were told by pur trainer when Piper would nibble on us etc when she was still a pup was that is was ok to let her play just not bite down, she had to learn the difference. When she would get too rough we would squeel like a little puppy, she had heard these sounds from other pups in her litter and seemed to know what it meant. She knows a squeeel and has no clue what Ow! means. This actually worked great for her. If she did continue to bite down playing too rough then she went for about 2 minutes of time out. But the best thing we did for this was put her in playtime once a week. Our trainer has Little Dog playtime and pn another night Big Dog playtime where dogs around the same size can be very closely monitered with all parents remaining there to watch and him circling the room, well, it's actually outside but it's about the size of a larger living room I guess. Gives the dogs a chance to learn what getting bit when playing feels like and when we would get back home she wouldn't bite on us so much, she was worn out and had gotten in her nibble work out with the other dogs and puppies. They always play with their mouth when playing with each other, it's hard for them to learn to not play with you with their mouth too, playtime helped a lot! Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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