Vet troubles 2!

[gjones2]

I want to thank everyone for their advice on my vet troubles with Joey. Many of you suggested that I try another vet, and I am definitely taking that route after the way the vet visit went last week! When we went in, Joey started sort of freaking out right away....he knows what is coming and he really panics! So I let the assistant know that last time he had to be sedated when she came in to cut his nails, and then he started growling at her, but she still said she wanted to try cutting them without sedation, and then she took him out of the room b/c he is so protective of me. I waited there for a while and they sedated him for the exam and the nailcutting, and then the vet came in to talk to me. It was a different vet than I had last time (same office) which I thought was strange......then he proceded to tell me that my dog is dangerous and I should be very careful with him around kids. He asked me if he had ever attacked anyone and looked at me like I was a horrible person the whole time! Apparently Joey was very bad during the whole process :x but I never saw what happened b/c they did it all in the back! Anyway, I told the vet that Joey had never attacked anyone and that he met new people and dogs all the time, but he told me that his aggression would soon jump to new situations besides the vet b/c he is so overprotective of me. This worried me a lot, b/c he does snap at people when he is anxious or they are "infringing" on his territory. I am going to see another vet next time. Are there vets that specialize in treating abused and slightly aggressive animals? I am wondering if I need someone like that. Thanks again for the advice!

[Guest Anonymous]

Even after three years in Rescue there is only one vet I know and trust enough to handle my girl who behaves like that. Dr. Stephen Hebert. He is on the Westbank out in Belle Chasse. But I have a Chow/GSD mix who does NOT like new people. (It took her 6 months of living with my husband after knowing him for two years for her to let him touch her) She is known to snap and release anal glands in the vets office.

Dr. H's office is not typical of what you see normally with a waiting room and exam rooms. His exam room is in the lobby. It threw me at first but I like it now because he rarely schedules to where there are more than one group of people there (other than those of us who go up to chat with him or his wife). I find that my dogs do not react as negatively to his clinic. Also if your dog knows stairs you can walk them up on to the exam table instead of having to be picked up.

NOW He also doesn't really have an technicians. His wife is his assistant but he perfers the owners to hold them. My dogs do wonders at his vet office where they haven't before.

I would also check with some trainers in the area (Stay away from some if you'd like to know my avoid list I'll let you know privately) to see if there is a behaviorilst in our area. I've never used or looked for one so I'm not much help.

[gjones2]

Thanks so much, I will look into that. I should mention that Joey has had training before, and he did very well but it was only for a short amount of time (1 week). I think what happens is that he becomes absolutely terrified at the vet, and all rules go out the window for him and he attacks because he is so scared. Anyway, thanks for the help!

[Guest Anonymous]

One weeks training may not have been enough to make him confident. Like I suggested contact a tainer and see if they know of a behaviorlist in this area.

Also do try the stuff I mentioned the last time you posted. If he becomes more aware that the vet clinic isn't a bad thing he will soon be confident and relax there.

Good luck

[imported_Kat]

Some dogs will just always go berserk when they get into a surgery and no amount of desensitisation will unfortunately change that if it is set in the dogs mind. The vet was wrong to take your dog from you in my opinion just for a procedure of nail clipping. Perhaps it may be time to change to a new vet if you are in doubt and unsatisfied?

[imported_Cassie]

We have alot of dogs which come into our grooming facility which have major behavioral problems (the local animal behaviorist refers all of her fearful and other dogs with special needs to us).
The owner of the grooming facility takes her days off to groom these dogs. They do not handle a stressful situation well when there are other dogs around and we may be in a hurry. The dogs pick up on this and it makes them anxious. With these problem dogs the owner makes sure her facility is quiet, no other dogs around and she is able to take her time.

Another thing my boss suggests to her clients is of course to see a qualified animal behaviorist, and also to watch how "they" the owner is reacting to situations. If the owner gets nervous before they come to the appointment (they are nervous of how their dog is going to act) the dog will pick up on this tension and start getting nervous itself. Then on the drive over the owner is perhaps talking to the dog in a soothing tone (perhaps laced with a little bit of nervousness) and the dog is getting more nervous as its owner is acting differently and is trying to soothe it. Then they get to the clinic and they are a little defensive, perhaps holding the leash a little tighter and sweating perhaps a little. The dog is now getting freaked out as it can smell the change in its owner...if its owner is scared then the dog is certain to be scared as well and become defensive.
My boss has have helped alot of clients by helping them to lessen "their" nervousness before coming in. She also advises when they get into the shop not to hold the dog tight in a defensive manner or coddle it in any way shape or form. Try to be happy.
I read a few other suggestions from your other post where people stated you should make a few friendly visits and let your dog get to know the staff. That is a good idea, but, only if your visit is done when there are no appointments going on and every thing is quiet. Let your dog see the clinic when it is not hectic and there are no other animals waiting. Be happy when you get close to the clinic, start by getting a little excited. If you are happy at the clinic it will some times rub off on your dog.
If you are not currently happy with your vet, ask around for suggestions of a vet who is running a laid back relaxed clinic. Some vets are comfortable and are not trying desperately to make enough money to pay a big staff etc.
Go see a behaviorist and learn about body language for your self and some calming signals to give to your dog. Help your dog to feel confident in these situations. I have also found with some dogs that obedience can help them alot in a stressful situation.
We had one client whose dog was uncontrollable/fearful/offensive, a vet wanted the Shepherd euthanized. The owner started coming to my boss at the grooming facility to have the dogs nails done. The dogs owner was more anxious than the dog! the dog was horrible at first and my boss was only able to clip off one nail each visit...they spanned the nail cutting procedure into a one nail a day job. My boss would first play with the Shepherd (at first he was not receptive to this) then she would put the Shepherd in the bathtub and ask the owner to stay with him and talk in a happy uppity voice...not anxious uppity :lol: one nail would be clipped the dog was rewarded and praised by both my boss and the owner and let loose to run around the shop (she only did the dog when she was officially closed and had no other clients) the owner also "liked" my boss so he was much more comfortable and relaxed about coming in. After about a year (the owner is still seeing an animal behaviorist as well) the dog is happy to come into the grooming shop (still done after hours) and greets the owner of the shop. The dog has improved in all aspects and the owner has found a new vet who likes his dog and the owner likes the vet...they never feel hurried or rushed and this has helped this dog improve...he is still fearful at times, but, he has improved 90%.

Remember our dogs are very intune with their owners, if you are stressed, they will pick up on it and become stressed themselves. It's funny but heres a little story of one of our clients and how sensitive dogs are to their owners.
Lady brings in her Lhasa to be groomed, the owner of the facility feels the dog over and informs ower the dog is too matted to be left in a long trim and will have to be shaved...our motto is "humanity before vanity".
The owner picks up her Lhasa and is shocked at how the dog looks...she has always kept her dog in a long coat and this is the first time she needed to have it shaved. She takes the dog home and her husband and children start making fun of the dog...it looks funny,they laugh...they are treating the dog differently. The dog then starts hiding and acting different. The owner of the dog gets upset and thinks some thing happened to her dog while being groomed. The owner of the facility asks how every one is responding to the dogs new shaved look...the dog owner states that the family thinks the dog looks ugly and they have been laughing at the dog. The groomer tells the owner to ask every one to tell the dog she looks beautiful and treat the dog as they normally do...perhaps just making the dog feel a little more special since it has been shaved. The owner of the dog calls back a couple of days later and says her dog is back to its normal self since every one has been treating it normally again. Now when she can't keep the Lhasa brushed out and we need to shave, the family tells the dog how beautiful it looks and gushes over it. The dog feels like its special after the groom and enjoys the attention it gets after its been shaved. :wink:

Heres a good article for you to read on dog body language
[url]http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1553&articleid=1135[/url]

[courtnek]

I can agree with that. I used to have my malamute mix "thinned" every summer. his winter coat was suffocating in Chicago summers, and it took way too long to blow out completely. He was always uncomfortable.
I would take him to the boarding kennels, where I knew everybody, and they would remove the majority of the undercoat while leaving the top coat intact. They always let me stay with him, until he got used to it. When he was done, he looked like half a dog. the majority of his bulk was hair.

When I brought him home, I made sure my son and X made a big fuss over him, asking him in happy voices "Do you feel ALL better now?" and I never let them laugh at him. after a couple seasons of this, he was fine to be left at the vet to be thinned without me, and they never had an issue with him. His first visit, they muzzled him cuz he was afraid and growling,
and that's why I asked if I could stay with him.

[Canis erectus]

Gjones, you may not want to discount your vet's advise right away. I'd follow Cassie's adivise and see about a behavioralist, as really there SHOULDN'T be any excuse for a dog to snap at anyone, but this isn't an ideal world and dogs are as imperfect as we are.

Looking back at your recent vet experience, you should keep in my that there are good reasons that veterinarians and groomers will take yor dog into the 'back room'. One reason being that there is many an owner who freaks out over seeing their beloved pet's blood when, for example, a technician or vet accidentally hits the quick when doing nail trims. I know, my fiance' is one of these people. This is something that happens relatively often, especially when a dog flinches as the nail is being clipped, but some owners would find this inexcusable and horrible that this could happen to their companion. Even though 'Angel' bucked like a rodeo bull during the entire process.
Another reason that pets go to the back room and out of their owner's line of sight is that there are quite a few dogs who are much better behaved WITHOUT their owners nearby. Some owners will inadvertantly allow poor behavior by simply by not correcting it, or even encouraging it. "Oh, poor snookums it will be Ok. I know they're mean and you don't like them but please try not to bite them... ", and so on.

Anyway, I don't mean to discount your concerns over your experience gjones,I just like to play the devil's advocate, so to speak. You need to do what you feel is right, I'm just presenting another side of the situation.

[Cairn6]

[quote]Looking back at your recent vet experience, you should keep in my that there are good reasons that veterinarians and groomers will take yor dog into the 'back room'. One reason being that there is many an owner who freaks out over seeing their beloved pet's blood when, for example, a technician or vet accidentally hits the quick when doing nail trims. I know, my fiance' is one of these people. This is something that happens relatively often, especially when a dog flinches as the nail is being clipped, but some owners would find this inexcusable and horrible that this could happen to their companion. Even though 'Angel' bucked like a rodeo bull during the entire process.
Another reason that pets go to the back room and out of their owner's line of sight is that there are quite a few dogs who are much better behaved WITHOUT their owners nearby. Some owners will inadvertantly allow poor behavior by simply by not correcting it, or even encouraging it. "Oh, poor snookums it will be Ok. I know they're mean and you don't like them but please try not to bite them... ", and so on. [/quote]
I agree these are some of the reasons we were taught in vet tech school. Also sometimes if a vet allows the owner to hold the dog and the dog bites the owner they have actually been sued for this. Which is the reason why smart vets check out the dog and if there is any doubt they have the vet tech hold the dog for a procedure because they have been trained on the proper way to secure a dog during procedures.