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My dog was brutally attacked and killed by another dog.


Guest Anonymous

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Ok maybe its none of my business if you all want to argue with Primorse, but Id hate to see this be 30 pages long like the other thread. Theres no reason for this, were not getting anywhere... :roll:

*sigh* ...and Ill say it again, when will the madness stop?!?!? :(

Uh, K, were those 3 posts just in this thread or all over the board? Because there was only two guest posts, Sam and PitBullEmily (thats not including Primmy's numerous posts.)

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[quote name='__crazy_canine__']Ok maybe its none of my business if you all want to argue with Primorse, but Id hate to see this be 30 pages long like the other thread. Theres no reason for this, were not getting anywhere... :roll:

*sigh* ...and Ill say it again, when will the madness stop?!?!? :(

Uh, K, were those 3 posts just in this thread or all over the board? Because there was only two guest posts, Sam and PitBullEmily (thats not including Primmy's numerous posts.)[/quote]



If we as pit bull owners DON'T respond to stupid untrue comments made by unknowledgable peole it is as if we accept them. Any one who is not familiar with the breed can read these comments & take them as truth since they were not disputed. Plus it's fun!

Debby

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[quote name='__crazy_canine__']You dont need to respond to the stupid untrue comments if its made by a TROLL!

STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!!!!

...trolls are evil on this board but along with the ones in my dryer that keep stealing my socks! :bad-words: Dumb trolls! I WILL get my revenge, I WILL get my socks back! :drinking:[/quote]

Can you look for mine too while you're at it?? :lol: :lol:

Hey, I see you are from Dallas, me too. Garland actually. Nice to see ya!

Debby

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Oh dear, I do hope no one will be angry with me for asking this, but sometime I can't help the minute trivia my brain focuses on...... is it Primrose or Primorse? Your signature line says one but your author line says another.

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Guest Anonymous

Im new posting here - I dont know Primrose nor Mei-Mei nor do I recal seeing their posts on another board. I have read no other topic on this board other then this one so I thought I would give an unbiased opinion on this situation and how it went astray. (note, I am only commenting on Primrose's first post and Mei-Mei's reply, not any others in this topic, sence thats what started it.

Primrose's post which Mei-Mei quoted and so strongly disagreed with is:

[quote]As others have said, part of the answer depends on the circumstances of the attack. If your poodle was in the pit bull's yard, it greatly lessens the chance that you will be able to collect anything. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, however. I would use the analogy that while it may not be okay for kids to cut through your backyard on the way to school (trespass), that doesn't necessarily give you the right to pull out a gun and blow them away. Particularly if the owner of the pit bull had prior knowledge that the dog was dangerous to other dogs, a judge may well find that s/he had a duty to keep the dog exceptionally well confined and/or muzzled to prevent the kind of tragedy you suffered from happening (it is, after all, foreseeable that a dog will encounter other dogs) and that his failure to do so was negligence.[/quote]

and Mei-Mei's Reply:

[quote]I'm sorry. Take it from the me (I graduated from law school). This is almost completely, totally, absolutely 100% WRONG. It's true that if your poodle was in the pit bull's yard it lessens your chance to collect anything. But the rest is bunk. It's such dangerous, inaccurate bunk that it's almost frightening. Please explain your situation Sam so I can give you accurate observations that applies to your state and your particular situation.

Primrose, unless you've opened the civil code lately it's not the best idea to give legal advice. Having an opinion is one thing, giving the above sort of one side advice is another[/quote]

I have to say I think Mei-Mei is way off base in her responce - I see little wrong with Primrose's first post - The problem here is that many of you are biased againt Primrose and automaticaly jump to Mei-Mei's side without forming your own opinion. Primrose used a very big word quite a few times - its the word "IF" "If your poodle was in the pit bull's yard" and "if the owner of the pit bull had prior knowledge" - I see no specific legal advice here - just a lot of IFs - and ya know she could be right - IF I owned a Pit Pull that had a history of attacking other dogs, a judge just might award damages IF my dog was chaned up in my front yard, Perhaps I shoulda known better. Are we allowed to shoot any dog thats on our lawn? Then we shouldnt be allowed to chain up a Pit Bull close to a side walk that would kill any dog or kid that would wander onto our grass either.

IF thats what happened in Sam's case, but we dont know what happened, if anything. Primrose just posted some IFs, and and Mei-Mei's Reply seemed very harsh for just some "IFs".

I assume Primrose must have posted some things that really ticked people off in the past, but people really should learn to be less biased here and judge posts by what they are, not by who posted them and who they are frirends with.

IF the neighbor was in his yard with the Pitbull on a leash and the leash slipped out of his hand and thats what resulted in the accident, then Sam could probably collect damages. See, I posted an IF, probabaly not what happened but am I gonna get flamed for it?

Primrose's IFs did not seem so bad IMHO, it would be nice if Sam had posted the whole story, but it shouldnt be a crime to speculate a little and post a few IFs. Mei-Mei replied as if Primrose had advised Sam to go and buy a shotgun to handle the problem, a bit too over the top I think.

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well, Pitbullmix, just FYI...Sam has never come back to answer any of the questions. One mod found out there are posts under three different names, but same IP. (came from the same PC). and Prim, in my opinion. jumps on every Pit post with as bad news as possible, always. this is why most of us will side with Mei...

:fadein:

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[b]primrose wrote.[/b][quote]Actually, if one poster suggests that another poster is intentionally lying and making up a story without any evidence that that poster IS intentionally lying and making up a story, that probably isn't technically permitted on this board. I think that that falls into the category of "First and foremost there will be NO personal attacks tolerated" don't you? [/quote]

ahem... cough... cough.... what about people who blatently lie and say that the admins of this board have been deleting and modifying their posts when this is not the case.......

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Guest Anonymous

Like I said - I only posted about this topic - and only about Primrose's first post in it and Mei-Mei's reply because thats what started this - nothing else. I did not judge Primrose for any other topics or posts.

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Guest Anonymous

[quote name='Mutts4Me'][quote name='primorse']this article presents good evidence (as does virtually every other well conducted study) that pit bulls actually ARE more people aggressive than are other breeds. Do you doubt that pit bulls kill more people than do cairns? Or do you think that all those supposed pit bull attacks were really perpetrated by cairns, posing as pit bulls? So even if we agree that the two types of aggression are not "the same" (it would be hard to argue that they are--a lot less hard to argue that they might be related), pit bulls have problems in both realms. [/quote]

I think logic fails you there. You know, a lot of people may not agree with me, but while I disagree with your views on things, and I disagree with the fact that you only seem to be here to argue and not pleasantly talk dogs with the rest of us, your responses do tend to be well thought out and logical (perhaps a different kind of logic many of us use, but logic).

But that's the most absurd thing I've seen you post (I think) so far. Little lap dogs (most terriers included) ARE incredibly people aggressive, well-bred or not, but most well-bred Pit Bulls are not people agressive. The problem is that when a demonic little dachsund (for, with all the "dangerous breeds" I've been around with no problems, I have been attacked twice by dachsunds) attacks you, it's 1) easier to escape (stand on a chair or pick it up, for instance ;) 2) less likely to cause severe damage because its teeth are a lot smaller ... and...

My lunch break just ended :-? I can continue this this evening, I guess.[/quote]


********************

First, to answer somebody up above. I didn't mean to imply that the dog bite survey cited in the article above was a well conducted study. When I talk about well conducted studies, I am referring to the work of Sacks et al. and Delise, generally.

I would generally agree with you, mutts4me, that lots of small dogs tend to be snappy. The best run studies tend to focus on FATAL attacks, and those tend to be dominated by the "muscle breeds," most prominently pit bulls and rotties. I thought that this survey was interesting (whatever its flaws might be) because it is a survey that actually gives numbers of dogs involved in bites, not fatalities. I find it more persuasive than the typical "veterinarians often report that cocker spaniels bite them the most" kind of information that often gets bandied about as though it were factual.

In reality, nobody knows what breed bites the most, because those kinds of numbers are not reliably reported. Fatalities are much more reliably reported and pit bulls and rotties fair terribly in those stats.

But your whole point hinges on one statement: That "WELL BRED" pit bulls do not tend to be people aggressive. Well...no. Unfortunately, that doesn't do pit bulls as a breed much good when the number of "well bred" ones is so microscopic compared to the number of horribly bred ones.

Let's look at one measure of what percentage of pit bulls are "well bred." We all agree that to even have an argument for being well bred, pit bulls need to be OFAed or PennHipped, right? ADBA (somewhere somebody quotes them) claims that it registers 200,000 pit bulls per year. If this is true (and that is just one registry--UKC registers lots of APBTs and AKC registers a few AmStaffs here and there), then there are about as many pit bulls out there as labs, and we KNOW that the vast majority of lab breeders are grossly irresponsible.

Well, I don't have time to do it right now, but it would be fun to see how many pit bulls (all flavors) were OFAed last month compared to how many labs. Remember, according to ADBA, there are nearly as many pit bulls being born and being registered as labs. What is your guess? Half as many pit bulls OFAed last month as labs? If it is ten percent, I'll be surprised. But even if it is half, that means that there are twice as many demonstrably irresponsible pit bull breeders as there are demonstrably irresponsible lab breeders (measured by who OFAs hips). And since there are tons and tons of irresponsible lab breeders, a responsible pit bull breeder must be a rare duck indeed.

primrose

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I have not read any posts to this thread yet but I want to tell you my story because it was a similar incident.
When I was 11 yrs old we had a 14-yr. old miniature poodle and one-day he was “attacked” and killed (well had to be PTS) by our neighbor’s daughters German Shepherd.
We never closed the gate in our backyard because our dog never left the yard. On this day the GSD came into our yard and right before my eyes (didn’t attack) but picked up my little poodle by the neck and continued to carry him in his mouth to the neighbors backyard. My dog was squealing and I ran after him and scared off the GSD and brought my dog back home bleeding to death in my arms. When I got inside my house my dad told me to put him down and he was screaming in agony on the floor that it broke my heart beyond belief. He was rushed to the vets but had to be PTS.
I don’t recall much of what happened after that as a result but remember the neighbors not saying much in their defense but they said, “maybe he thought he was a squirrel or rabbit.”
I know now that neither of us were responsible dog owners letting our dogs run free, unconfined or not on a leash and without supervision. (I don’t consider myself at 11yrs old as being supervision). While I was so angry and always thought it was the neighbors fault I realized it was our fault too, not that it will bring our little dog back but it is a lessened learned (the hard, very hard way). I now have a German Shepherd, who is dog aggressive by the way. I never allow her off leash and she is always supervised, I know what a dog like her can do. I never forget how my dog died when I was 11.

Ok read the post - troll stuff - oh well keeping my reply. :)

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[quote]Particularly if the owner of the pit bull had prior knowledge that the dog was dangerous to other dogs, a judge may well find that s/he had a duty to keep the dog exceptionally well confined and/or muzzled to prevent the kind of tragedy you suffered from happening (it is, after all, foreseeable that a dog will encounter other dogs) and that his failure to do so was negligence.[/quote]
It should not be "forseeable" that a dog should make it into the yard of a dog aggressive dog (if that was in fact the case), at least not if the loose dog's owner was acting responsibly for their dog. By your argument, a cat owner should be able to sue when their roaming cat wanders into someone's yard and is killed by that person's dogs, because after all, it was forseeable to the dog owner that a loose, unfamiliar cat could one day wander into their yard and their dogs (as many dogs would) would pose a threat to that cat. Of course, I don't see people rushing to turn their yards into Fort Knox in order to protect stray cats from the threat that may be their dog, so why would it be any different for stray dogs?

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Mei, MY OPINION ONLY....but Sam has not come back (if there ever WAS a Sam) and Primmy has once again turned this into a Pit Bull debate, for no reason. I, personally, vote to lock this thread. I hate to do that, I agree fully with free speech, but this speech, IMO, is going nowhere.

I leave it up to the the rest of the board to decide.

my vote is cast.

:cry:

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