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RAW diet?


Guest Anonymous

raw or cooked meat?  

  1. 1. raw or cooked meat?



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you are quite welcome. :) i know it's hard to find a footing to start out on, but over time you will learn more about nutrition and become more comfortable.

[quote name='pitbulletta']
Here's an example of one of my own (I used that website you gave me TDG, as a guide for the mineral requirements)...

80% lean ground beef - 150 grams
brocolli - 100 grams
brussel sprouts - 100 grams
carrots - 100 grams
parsley - 100 grams
sweet potatoe - 200 grams
1 and 1/4 teaspoon of bone meal
and recommended daily supplements from dr.pitcairn's book

This is enough for a 55 lb dog for one day...the only thing is that it contains a bit too much carbs and TOO much proteins..so I can never really even that out no matter how much I try... I've already got like 5 recipes made up and its always a bit off in those areas..also...my calorie total is always UNDER 700 which is odd...that's a bit low for a pit bull's intake so I dunno..but if I add more stuff than the protein and carbs are WAY too high...if I take stuff out then the calorie intake is TOO low..I'll probably never understand that but I think I'm getting the hang of it more at least[/quote]

there is one huge flaw in that recipe. it contains [b]way[/b] too many vegetables. that is not enough protein for feeding a dog and keeping him healthy. vegetables and fruits are a nice addition, but they should [b]not[/b] make up the main part of your recipe. dogs need protein and fat before anything else to stay healthy, you can not apply human dietary requirements to them.

if you think the regular recipes in pitcairn's book are too grain heavy, look at the ones listed on page 61 and 62. they are labeled as "growth" diets but you can still feed them to an adult dog. just pay attention to the caloric content, (listed under the recipes) and adjust rations accordingly.

i have a very active 22 lb dog who needs about 650 kcal per day to maintain weight under average conditions and up to 900 kcal per day when he is heavily exercised, running 8-10 miles on a daily basis.

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OK MY dogs dinner, as I have fed all of them for 30 years, never with a
problem.

I made a roasted stuffed chicken. with steamed vegetables, the stuffing and macaroni and cheese. My son doesnt like stuffing.

the dogs got a smaller level of kibble then usual, the roasted chickenthe veggies, and the macaroni (I dont see any real food value in the stuffing for a dog, or people for that matter. but it tastes good).


some people willsay that' wrong. I have fed my dogshome-cooked leftovers for 30 years and never had a problem.

comments? not trying to start a debate, just curious. also, there was, and always is, garlic in my vegetables.
minced garlic.

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[quote name='courtnek']the dogs got a smaller level of kibble then usual[/quote]

that means you don't feed a home made diet exclusively tho, so you still have somewhat of a balance in there that isn't present as soon as someone feeds [i]nothing but[/i] homemade food, regardless if it's raw or cooked.

for example, take the concentration of different food types into consideration. a pound of dry dog food consists of about 85-90% dry matter, a pound of roasted chicken meat is only about 32% dry matter, fruits, veggies and prepared grains even less.

feeding at least some fresh food in addition to kibble is always a good idea tho, it should just be within reason and no junk food. :)

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[quote name='TDG'][quote name='courtnek']the dogs got a smaller level of kibble then usual[/quote]

that means you don't feed a home made diet exclusively tho, so you still have somewhat of a balance in there that isn't present as soon as someone feeds [i]nothing but[/i] homemade food, regardless if it's raw or cooked.

for example, take the concentration of different food types into consideration. a pound of dry dog food consists of about 85-90% dry matter, a pound of roasted chicken meat is only about 32% dry matter, fruits, veggies and prepared grains even less.

feeding at least some fresh food in addition to kibble is always a good idea tho, it should just be within reason and no junk food. :)[/quote]

thank you. that was my point. I personally dont think that dogs suffer eating kibble. I feed less on a "big" leftovers day, only for weight reasons.
this was a big "leftovers"night. I dont think kibble is bad, but you have to make sure that ALL of the nutrients are there. thye dont have to be raw, they dont have to be kibble, they have to be a mixture of both. that's
my opinion. None of my dogs have ever been malnourished.

all of them have lived full lives, to old age, for their breeds.

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Guest Anonymous

Not enough protein? But I was checking the requirements..and it said 22 is enough for protein (That was also the average of all of pitcairn's recipes)..when I was checking [b]my[/b] recipe it was 56 for protein on that website you gave me..so that's like twice as much..how is that not enough? If I add more meat it'll be too much protein....won't it?

Ok looks like I'm getting confused again then...

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[quote name='pitbulletta']when I was checking [b]my[/b] recipe it was 56 for protein on that website you gave me..so that's like twice as much..how is that not enough?[/quote]

looks like you fell exactly for the issue i told you to watch out for in one of my earlier posts. lol :) re-read the first 2 paragraphs of my message posted on Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:38 pm.

you looked at the little green/red/blue color-coded pyramid graphic , right? well, that shows the distribution of calories in the food item or recipe, but it doesn't tell you [b]how much[/b] protein, fat or carbs are actually present in the food.

if you look at the [url=http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s04sb.html]details[/url] for the ground beef, you see that 29% of its [b]caloric content[/b] originates from protein, 71 from fat and 0 from carbohydrates. but if you look at the nutrition facts panel, you see that 100g of ground beef only contain 17g protein. that's 17% on an "as fed" basis, meaning in a form it will actually be fed to your dog.

this means that if you are aiming for 22% (which for me personally is still too low, i prefer at least around 30%), your 100g serving of ground beef still lacks 5% protein.

now have a look at [url=http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s00mq.html]this[/url]. turkey necks are a major part of my dog's diet. they have a nice meat-to-bone ratio, are fairly cheap and my dog does well on turkey meat. the caloric distribution is 64% from protein and 36% from fat, but 100g of the meat (sadly bone is not included in this nutrition panel) only contain 20g protein and 5g fat.

i hope this clarifies it! :)

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Guest Anonymous

so the 20 grams of protein is % that I should be looking at?

and you mentioned 22% being minimum....so this one has 20% or grams so I need 2 more (or more as you suggested)?

sorry I probably sound so stupid to some of you lol.

I totally forgot about you mentioning a recipe should have at least 50% meat in it...that makes sense..duh... :-? stupid me I only put 100g of meat and 300g of veggies (100 times 3 different kinds)...and about 3/4 cup of grains... yeah uhm a bit off with protein there thats true :oops:

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it's just basic math. :) take the entire amount, divide it by 100 and multiply the result by x, that way you get x percent.

20 grams protein of 100 grams total weight = 20%
100 grams of 500 grams = 20%
150 grams of 750 grams = 20%

keep in mind this is just an example. you will have to add up the protein, fat and carbohydrate content of the entire recipe to check it out, since not only meat contains protein and fat.

the percentages you pick depend very much on your individual dog. as you see in pitcairn's book, it is even possible to feed a dog a vegetarian diet, as long as appropriate amounts of nutrients are present.

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Guest Anonymous

*Sigh* ok one last try...just to see if I'm doin the math ok

[url]http://www.nutritiondata.com/nd.php?q=001-02s51tg-02s22c2-02s71uk-0ci20k9-0b410ij-0b420gp-02s31xt-05k12fv-0ci2224[/url]

I just made this up right now...its a bulk recipe...
I divided it (2212) by 3 to get roughly 737 calories per each meal..(I can feed that at one time or I can feed it twice a day..doesn't matter)

I divided the protein into three so I got 75 grams of protein per portion? (226g divided by 3)...that's alot of protein no? :o

Ok..and then I checked calcium and phosphorus... for example...668 divided by 3 is 222 ca and 878 of phosphorus PER PORTION... 878 x 1.2 = 1053 that's how much ca I need per portion..and I only have 222...

SOoooo... I add a teaspoon of eggshell powder into each portion (900 mg of calcium as opposted to 1800 per tablespoon).... so not it = 1122 ca per portion and 878 ph per portion..that's roughly proportional

Then I would add the healthy powder mix which is balanced in its own right..

Am I getting warm?

maybe I need brain survery lol :oops:

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getting there. :)

small hint: look at the analysis of your recipe on the 100g basis. that's the easiest way to determine your protein content, because the amount in grams is exactly the amount in per cent ("per cent" means "per 100"). so with your current recipe you are at 17% protein and 5% fat. both could still use a little boosting, especially the fat, to prevent skin and coat issues, but i think overall you caught on.

minerals: the 1,800 mg of ca in egg shell powder is per teaspoon, not per tablespoon. if i said otherwise in previous posts somewhere i apologize. see also pitcairn's book, page 38.

the entire recipe as listed has 668mg calcium and 2,635mg phosphorus.
if you aim for a ratio of 1.2:1, you need a total of
2,635 x 1.2 = 3,162 mg calcium.
668mg are already present, so you need to add
3,162 - 668 = 2,494 mg or just a little over 1 1/3 teaspoons.

and yes, the healthy powder is balanced in itself, so you can add it as desired.

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Guest Anonymous

Whoa there..I think I'm starting to get it I think....so.... I had 226g of protein...and the recipe is 1742g...so I go: 226 divided by 1742 and I get 0.123 or 13% (I think you said 17% I dunno if I'm the one that made a mistake or not)...

And fat is 91g for the entire recipe...soooo 91 divided by 1742 = 0.05 or like you said, 5%...

And I need 22% protein and uhm...around 18% fat right?... I'm starting to get it YAYYYYY....WHOA..but wait..this is ONE entire recipe...I can't feed all this food to my dog in one day...so if I divide it into 3 portions like I've mentioned before...[b]does this affect my percentage?[/b]

I'm gonna try to figure some more things out..wow thank you so much TDG..you're awesome..YOU should be an animal nutritionist..far more informative than the moron vets I've spoken to! lol

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yup, i think you got it now. :D

and since it is all mixed, yes, you do have the same percentage of protein and fat even if you divide it up - after all you are dividing it evenly, not just taking out the meat or fat. imagine making chocolate milk - a pitcher full of milk plus a few scoops of cocoa and sugar make up the entire recipe, but no matter into how many glasses you pour it when it's all mixed, each glass will have roughly the same amount of milk, cocoa and sugar if you blended it all well enough.

for a 55 lb dog you might be a little on the low end with 737 calories per day tho. my 22 lb dog needs roughly 650 kcal per day to maintain weight with moderate exercise. if you feed kibble right now, go by the caloric amount the daily kibble ration you feed has, and adjust from there.

i've done a lot of studying on nutrition the past 4 years and think i've learned quite a lot. maybe someday i'll be able to go back to school and make something "official" out of it. for now i'm happy to be able to care for my pets better and help other people now and then. :)

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Guest Anonymous

Well you certainly have taught me alot..and I thank you very much for all of your help and kindness :)

If I have any questions, I sure know where to come *smooches dogomania and TDG* :oops:

lol :)

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Guest Anonymous

TDG...I have a bit of a problem. Now that I've figured out how to calculate the carbs/protein/fat.... (divide the grams of protein or carbs or fats listed for the entire recipe by the weight of the entire recipe)

Well, now that I've figured this out I've been trying to make recipes that are somewhat balanced...however I keep facing the problem that whenever I have enough protein....I need to boost carbs..as soon as I add some rice or whatever....my carbs will go up, but then my protein goes down... As for fat, I dunno how to balance that so well either...

Any suggestions on which incredients I can use to make my recipes more balanced in those fields?

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don't worry about the carbs too much. they aren't all that important in a dog's diet, except for those that are exercised very heavily, or nursing bitches.

protein and fat is absolutely critical for a dog's health. you can actually harm a dog by withholding protein and fat, but as long as you feed a large enough amount, missing carbs aren't an issue at all.

if you still feel your diet is lacking, just split up ingredients and feed different meals. for example oatmeal with scrambled egg or cottage cheese in the morning and meat or fish with veggies in the evening.

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Guest Anonymous

Ok here is one I think its pretty decent..however...any idea how to get the fat content up a bit? :-?

[url]http://www.nutritiondata.com/nd.php?q=001-02s51tg-05k22c2-02s71uk-0go30jt-0go20k9-05k10ij-02s2039-0go20gp-02s31xt-05k04ej-02s12fv-02s2224[/url]

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you will automatically get a higher fat content if you use the chicken with skin and the fat that is attached. i recommend using an entire chicken to prepare your recipes for example, instead of buying chicken pieces, and don't trim fat off meat you use for making dog food.

you can also just add a little more oil, i highly recommend wheat germ oil for its high natural vitamin E content, and flax seed oil (cold pressed only). don't use hydrogenated oils, they are not healthy. :)

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Guest Anonymous

hydrogenated? Ohh I used some sunflower oil today for the recipe that I made in bulk for the dogs..it looks really good..lol good enough for me to eat Mmm..lol

Here is what I came up with

[url]http://www.nutritiondata.com/nd.php?q=001-02s51tg-05k22c2-02s71uk-0ci30jt-0ci20ih-0ci10ij-02s2039-0b420gp-01e31xt-08c04ej-02s12fv[/url]

is it ok to use liver and hearts/gizzards frequently? Its one of 3 main sources of protein in this recipe...I made so much it'll probably last me for 2 weeks :o I had no clue..and it was cheap too...hearts and liver from chicken is less than the drumsticks...ALOT less...

once again if you think I need to keep anything in mind please let me know and I thank you again for your great advice and educational "stuff"...lol running out of words...too tired :o

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