Help! and do electronic fences work?

[cdreid]

I have two VERY healthy, active, dogs. They grew up running free as did every dog in the neighborhood.. but the town grew up around us :( And i none of us can let our dogs run because of um.. "yankees" moving in to our neighborhoods who are terrified of actual living beings protecting the neighhborhood. One is very very big the other is.. chow sized. I built fences up to 7 feet high. They climbed them. It got to be a game to them actually. Id 'repair' the fence when it was small. Theyd wait til i went inside.. and leave through an undiscovered flaw in my design. I tried to be pissed but .. well it was kinda funny. Once i had spent 1000 hours or so repairing all the ways they found around my system.. they just started jumping the 4' walls. So i went to 5'. Then six. Then about 6 and a half. If anyone tells you dogs cant laugh they are liars. I put them on 'runs' but they snapped the chains and cords like they were paper. Angel even tore a 8' tall post buried 2 feet deep in concrete out of the ground and drug it around the neighborhood on a logging chain (im not kidding). Now they are chained in a cage about 20' by 20' and it tears me up. They have to be chained And caged because angel rips the steel fencing to shreds when she doesnt dig under it. (Angel is chow/wolf and the SMALL one)

I'm thinking of underground or wireless electric fencing, even though it does use pain to train them (my dogs have NEVER been put in pain purposefully). But beyond the horror of hearing one of them yelping.. im not sure it would work. They are escape artists and i have afeeling will 'bolt' to get through. ANY suggestions? any at all? Email me personally if you ahve any ideas. This is really driving me crazy. If it were just angel i could make her a house dog. She loves it and chow are CLEAN dogs. But john. Well he sorta knocks over things.. like kitchen tables. So theyre stuck being outside dogs

Sorry for the length but htis is driving me nuts

[TDG]

when i had my dane, i was living on a property too large to be able to afford a regular, sturdy, secure fence.

i used the kind of electric fence you'd use for sheep pastures and it worked out just fine. he ran into it twice and then never again for the rest of the time we lived there.

personally i would not trust a determined dog with one of those gimmicky wireless fencing systems. i believe that an actual, visual barrier like an electric pasture fence does make a difference.

it also doesn't have the same kind of risk as a collar transmitter malfunctioning, or the dogs getting "collar smart". and it's relatively cheap and easy to adjust.

[kendalyn]

The best solution would be to move the dogs inside. Can't you train John to be more careful in the house? He might seem really unruly when you bring him in now because he's not used to it and he's excited. I'm sure with some training he could calm down and be an indoor dog.

But if you really can't move them inside, making the current fence you have up "hot" might work. Your dogs seem particularly determined though. K's idea was good. I think they would have a hard time getting around that.

Are you sure the dogs are getting enough attention and exercise? They might be less willing to escape if they were more content. Do they have lots to do while they're in the yard? Bored dogs are also more apt to escape.

[eric]

We had to put "Invisible Fencing" up because our yougest dog, Zeke, is too much of a wanderer. We live on six acres and there isn't any "traditional" fencing, just old log fences to define the property line. Understandably, with six acres, putting up a fence is not financially feasible.

It made it very unpleasant to be outside because you were constantly looking for him/calling him back. We'd turn our back for two seconds and he'd be gone.

The final straw was that he started taking off barking at our neigbours when they were outside, running across the property onto their property. This would get our GSD Travis going, who would bark and charge with him. When they got there they'd be all wagging tails, but it was clearly unacceptable.

So we bought the invisible fencing, which consists of a small eletronic box, wire, and a collar. When the dogs get within a certain range of the wire, the collar beeps to warn them. If they keep going, they get a zap and the closer they get to the wire the more intense the shock.

The results were mixed. Zeke is EXTREMELY sensitive to the collar. He basically screams, and he's not tiny (about 70 lbs). The first time he set it off my wife and I were in tears - we felt so horrible. However, after the first few zaps he clued into the fact that when he hears the beeping, its time to stop and turn around. He never gets zapped anymore. Being outside now is much more pleasant - we don't have to be constantly vigilant, and we don't have to worry about him charging after people. He got to learn his free area, which probably amount to amount 2.5 acres, and he seems content to run around in there.

We also got a collar for Travis, our GSD, and it basically didn't work. He's a big boy, 120 lbs, and he's got a fairly thick coat. The collar did come with longer contacts for thick coat dogs, but it didn't seem to matter. He'd whine a little bit and just run through the "fence". At one point, we were all outside and I kept hearing this beeping. I was wondering where this noise was coming from, so I'm looking around. Here's Travis, lying practically on top of the wire (of his own free will) getting zapped over and over.

Fortunately for us, Zeke really was the instigator in the charges. Travis doesn't do it on his own, so we only collar Zeke.

Having said this, this is only for when we are all outside or when its time for them to go to the bathroom. Otherwise, our dogs our inside.

[imported_Cassie]

I personally HATE underground fencing...its a waste of time. Most dogs I know have either figured out that it only takes a second of pain before they can reach the outside world...or in some circumstances some dogs get very aroused by passing bike riders, children playing etc. they can become very aroused and associate the pain with the object which aroused them. There have been some horrible attacks made by dogs contained by underground fencing.

Any way, I like K & TDG's ideas...either buy your self a GOOD fence and make the top come in over the top or even make a half ceiling for the dogs or get a visable electric fencing used for livestock...then the dog sees the barrier.
The only problem I find with livestock electric fencing is when you have visitors who don't realize its electric fencing and they lean up against it...ouch. My sister did this one day we went to the barn to see my horse I co-lease...she leaned right up against the wire fencing before I could warn her...plus the owner of the barn had the voltage up high...she now has a horrible fear of any wire fencing...I'm thinking I may have to enroll her in a class for the hard wired fencing fear related desensitizing course...if they have one :o :lol:
I work at a dog boarding kennel, we have good fencing with half ceilings...even with the best of escape artists we have never had a problem...and believe me, the dogs want to escape the boarding kennel much more than they want to escape your back yard.

[Guest Anonymous]

:o :o you got some strong dogs there!! i agree with K and everyone that maybe you shoudl cement the fnce and put the top barriers on it pointing inwards so they can't jump or climb out of it




GOOD LUCK!

[vstardragon]

the invisible fences or undergroud electric fences are all garbage. they may work on small dogs, but most of the time if a dog gets a running start they can go right through the invisble line with it abrely fazing them. I have a freind whos got a lab that will walk to the invisible line and start getting shocked and just lay there getting schocked and twinging until the battery in the collar dies,...kind of a freak dog, but most dogs will learn that they can walk through the fence and only suffer a little bit of a shock.

[courtnek]

interesting topic...K, are you sure my son didnt post this? (I'll give you his IP) we were having this argument just the other day. He wants an electric fence. I say no. Anyway, electric fences are only as good as the stubborness/mindset/whats-on-the-other-side/ attitude of the dog.

Trust me when I say that an EF wont stop a determined male if there is a bitch in heat on the other side. Especially if not neutered. Both of mine would slam an EF if "prey" ran by. (they're hunting dogs) K's idea is actually the best. I think for the overhang she was thinking of barbed wire, like on prisons, but I dont think you need to be quite that safe. An overhang of wire like that without the barbs will do it. The dog just needs to be made unable to climb it, and jump over. A straight fence allows the jump, an overhang prevents it. The cement is also necessary, cuz when they realize they cant jump, they will dig.

good luck

[courtnek]

also, there are electric collars yu can get to train them temporarily, involving a remote. but it requires you to put in the time. It's a small zap, which you administer thru the remote when the dog starts to attempt to climb the fence. It might be easier in the long run to teach them to not like the fence, then to make all the modifications.

[imported_Cassie]

One last thing I will mention about under ground fencing and why I hate it :wink:
Since this has become popular we have had quite a few dogs come in for grooming which have horrible scars and open sores on their necks from being shocked. Some owners never take the collars off their dogs :o
We work under a vet clinic and the vet really loves underground fencing...but, then again she doesnt have really determined escape artists...many clients bring their dogs to our grooming shop or the vet clinic with the collars on their dogs and walk right through the underground fencing even though there are signs indicating that it is there.

We had one Golden come in for a groom as the owner called us and said the dog was smelling horrible...the dog came in, we took off the collar...and boy, what a mess...the smell was rancid skin... :o
We called the owner to advise them we were taking the dog upstairs to be treated...the poor thing had electrical burns around the neck

I just can't say how much I hate underground fencing. Your dogs are left vulnerable when outside; any thing including other dogs and children can come into your yard to tease or fight with your dog.
[quote]The electronic containment systems fail to provide any physical barrier to protect unwary passers by from the dog. The list of documented cases of electronic fence related aggression grows longer by the day [/quote] quote from WDJ

You also should never leave a dog out in the yard unsurpervised with the collar on....and I'm not even going to go on about the documents of dogs seriously wounded by electrcal burns from being left out in thunder storms with the collars on...
A good fence provides a barrier which keeps your dog safe from out side animals, keeps children and people from coming onto your property and possibly teasing your dog...this of course is just my opinion...I have seen too many negetives on the underground fencing to feel its a "good" thing.

[cdreid]

Sounds like electric fence is out. The dogs are part wolf and it DOES show in their temperament. Not in the "ooh scary" way the media and whacko akc types talk about.. but in that they get in 'wild' moods. I watched john pull a 4" thick vine out of a 40 foot tall tree tryingto get a squirrel. I and three people could have climbed that vine simultaneously and safely but he yanked it out trying to pull the squirrel down! They just have too much determination.

As for 'real' electric fencing i wont do that. It looks horrid, would shock any children, animals that hit it, would shock me... and hearing them cry after getting nailed by it would be like a stake through the heart. Guess im a wuss but id rather lick the thing myself than hear them in pain.

The concrete floor around the edges for a few feet is a great idea thanks. But i've actually watched dogs climb the 'inverted' fencing. Dogs usually jump over fence.. but they CAN climb. Even ladders, fencing etc if theyre determined. That would have kept every other dog ive ever had chained in but i swear these two are a handful.

RE exercise and attention: Angel views me as her parent, center of her world. But even i bore her after a bit. She comes to get her love then has better things to do. John would spend his life laying nearby if he could though :) I DO wish i could let them run free. They're 'neighborhood dogs'. If you grew up in the country you know what i mean. They and hte neighborhood dogs spend their lives with miles and miles of woods, homes etc to explore. But those days are gone now at least here.

The problem with keeping them inside is just plain Size. John likes to lay in the hallway. When john decides to lay in the hallway ... noone walks down the hallway. He seems positively dumbfounded that anyone would expect him to... MOVE. And as i know a lot of you guys know.. when you get a dog that big that doesnt want to move.. well ya learn to find alternative travel routes! I even went so far as to yell at him "MOVE john" and push him and sorta half kick him on the butt to get him to move. He grinned really big and licked my ankle. Then looked at me like i was an idiot *sigh* I think he was hoping id do it more. I eventually learned to jump over him. Hmm.. who's training whom here.

Im going to try to bury a 'stake' bout 3 feet deep with those things that wont let lines get twisted and hope they cant manage to get tangled. I'm moving soon so hopefully i can find a place to rent in florida with plenty of room for them to run. I appreciate all the help a lot!

[GIXXSTER]

This may be something to try, I have not had the need to as of yet though so I'm not totally sure of it effectiveness.

Get on Ebay and buy a few cans of pepper spray (5 ounce size or bigger) and about every 6 inches of your yard perimeter (or area you want to keep the dogs) spray just a little bit. I was told by my instructor when I got my pepper spray permit that it is not only the best way to keep unwanted animals out of your yard but also keep the wanted animals in your yard as they do not like the smell of pepper spray and will not cross the line.

I don't know however about how long the effects will last. But this may be a more humain way to try. Although if it doesn't work electricity may be the best option.

[corgilady]

:o Well, I am speechless. Most of you are saying the invisible fence doesn't work....I walk the boys by this house 3-4 times a week where there is an "invisible" fence. The two dogs inside it act like they are going to eat us up. They are big, like a pittttttt something mix (sorry!) and a dal mix. We do switch to the other side of the street as we get there, but still...that is what, 20 feet away?

Guess we'll walk someplace else.....