neighbor dog

[kendalyn]

I'm going to be moving home Thursday (starting an internship, can't afford to work full time for free and pay rent and stuff) and I have a question about the neighbor dog.

Our neighbors have this very large and very sweet great dane/lab mix (something like that I think) His name is Remington and he's Buck's best friend. Anyway, Remington's owners probably got in over their heads when they got this dog. They have no idea how to train it and the poor thing wears an e-collar constantly. I don't have a problem with these types of collars in some situations, but the way my neighbors use it is not right. Basically from what I've seen they let the dog run all over the place when they are outside and then when they want the dog back they call his name and shock him. It doesn't work. Remington is often over at our house which is fine with me :-)

Last night I was walking Buck over there and we were about a half mile away from the neighborhood. All of a sudden here comes Remington running up to us. I couldn't keep him out of the busy road so I put Buck's leash on him because I knew I could control Buck without it.

The babysitter had let him get out. She was standing in the front yard pushing the remote control shock button over and over again. :roll: Yeah, that's really going to get the dog to come back.

So anyway, that was the rant, here's the question. I'm fairly certain that Remington's owners are not interested in learning how to train him. But, if I offer to bring Rem with us on our walks, and I do some training with him then, will it make a difference? I'm just talking about basic commands and especially his recall which is terrible.

I know it won't work as well as if his owners were included in the training, but if I teach him a command, do you think he'll still obey it when someone else gives it? Has anyone else ever trained a dog for someone else?

[DogPaddle]

I don't think it would work for dog like Kavik he is too . . . (specific?) I have difficulty conveying commands once he's learned them sometimes because the tone of voice and body language MUST be EXACT. Its like "speak" in one pitch is not even the same word as "speak" in a different pitch, same with hand signes but to a lesser extent.
Now if Remington is more my mum's Holly you might have some success. She is excellent with commands, even the first day my mum brought her home. She will do anything for anyone and isn't picky. She automatically does the circle behind thing ("heal up") although we don't know the command to get her to do it when we want, she just does it to be leashed or if she is in the "wrong" position on leash. She will sit, stay, down, sit pretty, shake, out etc. Now if we could only find out what training and commands she's had had - I'm sure there is tons. :lol:

[imported_Cassie]

I really hate those shock collars...they usually end up in the wrong hands and are used incorrectly. There have been cases of aggression issues which can be directly pointed to the use of shock collars and under ground fencing.

If you want to start taking Remington out and doing basic obedience then that is up to your self. It would be nice for Remington to get out for walks, but, as you mentioned...unless the owners use the obedience you train, it will all be for nothing. Remington's owners sound a little bit on the lazy side :lol: and don't seem to want to put the time and effort into making their dog into a good canine citizen. Our dogs repeat actions which bring them pleasure or rewards...shocking a dog inadvertaley will cause more problems and you end up with a dog which is afraid to try new things etc. as it causes him pain....the dog learns to avoid doing the exact thing which gives it the painful shock.
I have a freind who is using shock collars on his APBT and Bull mastiff, at first they were helping him achieve the results he wanted and he swore by the shock collars...then, he started experiencing problems which started to escalate to redirected aggression due to the sense of an on coming shock.

Your situation reminds me of when I was a child and my neighbors had 2 intact male dogs, one a Husky/malamute mix and the other a GSD. I was about 12 years old and had completed all obedience levels with my 3 dogs and had offered to train their dogs (the owners were very lazy) I trained their dogs and they listened to me and did very well in obedience classes...but, as soon as they went home to their "old" environment they went back to their "old" ways...it was very disappointing to a young child to put in all that work. It was funny though, as I was only 12 and I was the only person who could actually take these dogs for a walk without any problems. The owners tried to take them for a walk and they ended up being hauled down the road, the dogs escaped from the leads and came running to my home looking for me :lol: It was a simple case of lazy owners, no training, and if they had had access to a shock collar they too probably would have tried to find a way to use it to their convenience.

Would you be able to take Remington and keep him as your own dog? it would be a challenge as he would be a crossover dog (which means the dog will be used to harsh training methods and to try to get him used to positive)...Remington sounds as though he is associating the come command or recalls using his name as causing or oncoming pain...its no wonder Remington is not listening to his owners..if I was shocked every time some one called my name I wouldn't come either :lol:
The only way you can train Remington with positive training and still allow him to live at his own home. You will have to have the owners help and you will need to train them as well and show them what you are teaching Remington, and they will have to stop using the shock collar.

[kendalyn]

[quote]Would you be able to take Remington and keep him as your own dog?[/quote]

This would be my first choice. But since I'm moving home I can't. My parents don't want another dog in the house. I think if it were possible Remington's owners would give him to me. I know they gave him away once before, but he was returned.

My plan was to talk to Rem's owners about training him and letting them know what commands I had trained him on. My biggest fear though is if I train him but he won't listen to [i]them[/i] when they give the command. If this were to happen I feel it would be worse for Remington because it would make his owners feel like they can't control him even after he's been trained. Do you know what I mean? I'm afraid they would feel like he's hopeless even though it may only be that they need to work with him a lot more to get him to understand. Only they won't do it. I hope that makes sense... :roll: It's a hard thing for me to explain.

I think Remington is a great dog. His temperment has to be like a rock for him to be so good natured and outgoing even with all the shocking that has been going on.

Would it be wrong of me to take his e-collar and throw it into the woods next time he comes over...? Dogs lose their collars all the time right? :wink:

[DogPaddle]

Sounds good to me.

I know there are lots of dog owners out there who would love to have someone train their dog for them and then teach them the commands, might work. There is a trainer here who will take your dog for two weeks and return it to you more or less trained but there is an additional 1 1/2 session in your home to teach you to use the commands.

[courtnek]

"collar? he had a collar? sorry, I didnt notice, musta come off during the walk..."

Training him is a good idea, but unfortunately, it will only help if the owners
continue to implement it once you're done. He wold probably respond to them if they issued the commands, with real heart in it (Danes are very easygoing for the most part, and easy to train) but if they ar expecting him to "train himself", (which is what it sounds like) it's not going to work.

[Peng1zrule]

I hope I'm not repeating anybody, I didn't read the other replies...

Two problems with YOU training Remington: one is that you will grow attached to him. training forms a bond and you will end up being attached to him whether you want to or not. I speak from experience.
The other problem is that yes, he will be very well trained...for you. Again, from experience. Several of the neighborhood dogs come when called, down when asked, sit when told...for me. Thier owners get the "who the H-E- double hockey sticks are you?" look.

[cdreid]

It sounds like they really really love him. But are like me and just cant help but pet him and love him constantly when he's around. Makes it very hard to train your dog when they know that no matter what they do the second you get within reach theyre petted.

Maybe explain to them about the collars. How it is 'negative reinforcement' and not a good way to train him. And that it just causing him pain if they dont know training techniques.