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Dog legal problems! Help!


Queen Bitch

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This is crossposted from a different (NDR) forum that I go to. The poster is from Canada.

"Dog legal troubles
Last Thursday I took my dog to the river for a couple hours and on the way home I stopped in the local park for a few minutes. I was talking with some of the locals and we were watching our dogs play and this woman I've never seen before with a puppy comes strolling around the corner. Immediately, the dogs run over to say hello and sniff the obligatory ass. As soon as the dogs run over she starts SCREAMING at the top of her lungs and pulls her dog up by the leash, leaving it dangling in front of the dogs, who all start barking and jumping at it. Now, regrettably my dog caught the puppy in her mouth before I could get there and wound up cutting the dog. I pull the dog away and the woman is still hysterical. I check the dog and it's got a small cut (that would later require 2 stitches) on it's side. I immediately start apoligizing and she says I have to go to the vet. I offer to pay but she either ignores me or doesn't hear me and runs off.

So I sit down, stunned at what actually took place. Everyone else there is pretty understanding and says that it's just one of those things that happens. I stick around for 20 minutes in case they come back but go home after that. I go home and tell my girlfriend we should expect a visit from animal control. Sure enough, Saturday when I get home from work there's a note saying that animal control needs to verify what happened, so I call the guy and arrange a meeting time on Monday. He comes over today and turns out to be a really nice guy and tells me he figured the couple who's dog was bitten was overreacting as they told him I didn't apologize, I left immediately and omitted the part about dangling the dog. He also told me he thought they were pretty big losers and he didn't think much of them. Unfortunately he had to fill me with summons that require my dog to wear a muzzle at all times. I couldn't believe it. He tells me I could ands should appeal because he thinks this complaint is over reaching and that even he thinks my dog doesn't need to wear a muzzle. Seriously, my dog has never bitten another dog or anything of the sort. All my neighbors are going to write letters vouching for the excellent behaviour of her and a bunch of fellow dog owners said if they need to testify they will.

So I have to get a lawyer and file an appeal, but in the meantime I had to go buy her a muzzle. No more running off the leash or ball chasing, just walks for the rest of her life, and apparently, the couple that filed the complaint live very close to me and are going to be "watching me like a hawk" says the animal control guy. They actually wanted to sue me. I tell you, putting that muzzle on was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

So that's my problem, anyone else have any experiences like this? It just seems completely over the top to have such a vendetta. The dog was fine. My dog was bitten by a pit bull a few months ago and I knew the dog and the owner and it happens. I didn't kick up a huge fuss becuas eI knew the dog wasn't vicious. Rushing off to tell animal control immediately is just pointless. I can't say but from what I've heard people were sticking up for my dog and they weren't even listening, going on about what a terror it is and that I'm an a-hole for raising a "vicious" dog."


Any ideas guys?

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My only idea is to beg. She's going to have to go over there, apologize for anything and everything and try to convince them to drop their complaint. These people sound like they are completely ticked off and unresonable so talking to them rationally is not going to work. I know it's not a nobel thing but seriously, if she wants to avoid a legal battle her only recourse probably is to grovel. It's going to suck and she'll hate doing it, but I really think that short of a legal fight, it's the only thing that is going to work.

Maybe she could make a deal that her dog will never again be offleash around theirs. If she sees her neighbor at the dog park, she could agree to leave right away.

She could also move out of the city to an area where those people won't see her ever.

The noble thing to do is get a lawyer and fight it, but sometimes that's not practical. I would at least try begging. A written apology would go far too. Oh but I don't think she should admit anything in writing.

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In most places and probably where this happened it is the law that your dog is on a max. 6ft leash at all times in public.
Why don't people understand this? Don't get me wrong, I don't believe this dog should or needs to be muzzeled in public. Dogs will be dogs and dogs are and always will be animals.
My rescue dog is dog aggressive and while she never steps outside off lead ever, if a dog comes up to her off leash and she bites it she will need to be muzzeled in public for the rest of her life.
I've read many times about how you should carry a big stick or mace incase an off leash dog runs up to you. If you use it you just say you were worried the dog was going to attack, the idea is it's better than you having to muzzel your dog everyday and everytime you go out just for a walk.

(If that dog is reported again it is the death penalty BTW. :cry: )

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Well, the owner with the dog on lead (even though they almost strangled the dog) did it trying to save their dog from being attacked. The dog WAS off-leash, which is illegal, and it did bite another dog. I think the person should be sued or what-not for the damages. The muzzle may be a bit much, but I'm more concerned with the owner not leashing their dog.

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Ok folks, though it wasn't stated in the letter, it was at an OFF LEASH dog park. :oops: There were a bunch of dogs in a pack like situation and this woman had her puppy on leash. ( Isn't that not allowed at most dog parks for everyone's safety?) Judging from the situation, I'd almost say the woman had a part in her dog requiring stiches, based on the jerk and dangle. Who goes to a dog park and doesn't expect dogs to act like dogs? And by that I mean, checking the new "guy" out etc.

So I told him to get statements of his dog's temperment from his vet/trainer/people who were there, etc. Any other advice?


Oh and the letter writer is a guy folks............ :oops:

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Guest Anonymous

[quote name='Aonir']Well, the owner with the dog on lead (even though they almost strangled the dog) did it trying to save their dog from being attacked. The dog WAS off-leash, which is illegal, and it did bite another dog. I think the person should be sued or what-not for the damages. The muzzle may be a bit much, but I'm more concerned with the owner not leashing their dog.[/quote]

I wrote the original post so to to clarify a couple things: the owner panicked and pulled the dog up before it was attacked, and I'm pretty sure the dog dangling in front of 4 big dogs while the owner is screaming is at least partially what started the snapping from all the dogs involved, mine just got there first.

And it was an off leash area in a public park, so I was in the right there.

I was willing to pay for damages (a 60 dollar vet bill) before I found out that the couple vindictively lied to the animal control about how I handled the sitation and what actually happened. I would love to beg but I don't know who they are or where they live.

I'm pretty sure I'd never go back to the park again just due to the awkwardness of the situation but the fact is that she can't run off the lead or chase a ball even with no other people or dogs around and for a 2 year old german shepherd it's practically a death sentance since that was her first offence and she has to pay for one mistake her entire life. I'll obviously have to be much more careful in the future if I'm allowed to un-muzzle her.

Many thanks to hillside for stating my case here as well. Appreciated very much.

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If it was an off-leash dog park (not disclosed) then the dog being off a leash is not illegal. I am more concerned with the puppies lady panicing, and almost strangling the poor puppy in the process. Most dogs will react to someone screaming, and holding a dog off ground on a leash like that,
differently than if the lady just calmy picked the puppy up and said "go away please..." sometimes people can cause their own problems by reacting the wrong way. This doesnt sound so much like a attack, as an accidental bite while her dog was trying to make sense of the noise and the panicing woman. Still, although I dont think muzzling is the answer, since it doesnt appear to have been a deliberate attack, the poster should consider keeping her dog on a leash until her dogs reactions to other situations can be established. It could very well have been an accident, in the "heat of the moment"...but still, responsibly, I would not let this dog loose until I knew for sure it was safe around others dogs, and panicing owners. My Lab mix is NOT safe around other dogs...8 out of ten she will get along fine with, the 9th and 10th, I wouldnt promise anything....That's why she is never offleash, and not taken to dog parks. It annoys me that I can never tell how she will react in any given situation, as I would love to let her run with other dogs, but better safe than sorry.

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[quote name='Aonir']Well, the owner with the dog on lead (even though they almost strangled the dog) did it trying to save their dog from being attacked. The dog WAS off-leash, which is illegal, and it did bite another dog. I think the person should be sued or what-not for the damages. The muzzle may be a bit much, but I'm more concerned with the owner not leashing their dog.[/quote]

From being attacked? There was no aggression, the dogs went over to check out the new arrival when the woman inappropraitly jerked her puppy up dangling it by the leash, turning it into a far more facinating toy like object than it was as just a puppy on the ground.

And why the heck should he be sued? He apologized first off, and told her immediately that he would pay for the vet visit, which she ignored. He isn't saying that he is blameless and is WILLING to take responsibilty for his dog's actions at the dog park. All he wants is advice on how to not have his dog listed as viscious, because it is not.

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well, I posted this before I read all the replies :oops: :oops: :oops:
and I apologize Noah for calling you "she"...

I do agree that the womans actions, as I stated, probably caused her own
problem....but still, I would keep your dog under tabs until you can ascertain how it will react in other situations like this. We cant control other stupid peoples actions, and the worst thing you can do in this situation is panic, which she did. If she hadnt they probably all would have gotten all their "sniffs" in and been fine...but you're always gonna run into that, no matter where ya go. So keep your dog on a lead, and prove to everyone around you that your dog is a good, other dog trustworthy dog, (mine ISNT, and I KNOW it) and I believe it will eventually work itself out.

:D

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How does it not make sense to have somebody you don't know, know who you are? It happens to me constantly.

It makes sense since Noah doesn't look like John Q Public. Though I don't know Noah in real life, I have seen several pictures of him and he is rather, well let's just say, distinctive. I'm not saying that he has 3 heads, but he is the sort to stand out in a neighborhood.

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Shouldn't he be served with a copy of the complaint though? If not, this is public record and he should be able to get a copy. The complaint should list the names of the people pressing charges.

It seems odd that some stranger at the dog park would know your name when you don't know theirs is all. If he looks distinctive, it's not like she went down to animal control and said, "Hey, this guy who looks like, yada yada yada, let his dog attack mine." Unless they live in a really small town or something.

I still think talking to the person one on one might help.

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I really feel for you, Noah... I have seen idiots picking up their dogs at the dog park (the screaming would also help :x )--and pretty much any other dog around goes insane. They're not trying to kill the lil dog and if the dog is put back down, they'd leave it alone. So I'm 100% sure that your dog isn't "vicious", and really I don't think you'd have any reason to worry about her around other dogs (with normal owners).
Unfortunately, I don't really have advice--what I would do is try to talk to the animal control guy again and ask if there is anything you can do to reverse their decision (eg. would letters of reference from other dog people at the park help? would neighbour's letters help?). Good luck to you...

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Guest Anonymous

[quote name='kendalyn']Noah, if you don't know who these people are, how did they know who you were? They must have known in order to report it to animal control. I'm just curious because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.[/quote]

That's what I'm not sure of either. There have been no other complaints about Marilyn and I don't think anyone at the park knows my exact address, but I guess there are ways to figure it out. Not many shepherds in my neighborhood and she is registered with the city. I guess it could have been as simple as someone saying "oh, I know that guy, he lives in that building" but how they got my name and address is beyond me. I should have asked the animal control guy when he was here.

A few people have asked where I've been in the last day or so and they were all pretty shocked to hear about it and offered to write letters of reference. When I make my appeal I'm going to offer to have her on a halti when she's around other dogs at all times (I'm not even worried about her biting, but as a precautionary measure), offer to take her to obedience school and offer to pay the vet bill for the other dog. I think that's a pretty reasonable compromise and since I work odd hours so I take her out at night a lot where there are usually no other dogs around, so even if I had the ability to take her to the park at 3:00 AM and throw her kong around to her that would be fine. I [i]could[/i] do that now, but since apparently the couple who filed the charges have it in for me I don't want to jeapordize anything and risk them going back to animal control.

Thanks for the advice from everyone, it's much appreciated.

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