bk_blue Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Atom- if I were you I would be doing a lot more research on the Doberman(n). [i]Especially[/i] known diseases/defects pertaining to the breed, such as von Willebrand's. I think if you are serious about buying a puppy from a good breeder you would go out of your way to find one. It should [color=red]never[/color] be too much trouble to find a decent puppy. This potential puppy (who, as hillside said, is going to be trouble purely because that's what puppies are, in the nicest possible way) is going to be your companion for the next 8-12 years, not a toy you can chuck out if it gets broken. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [url]www.dpca.org[/url] Study this website, it is loaded with info on the dobermann and it can help you a lot (well if you haven't already seen it). Breeders and owners can now DNA-test for the von Wildebrands disease, wich is a great health risk in the dobermann, I would also like to see that the dogs have had their eyes checked. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 [quote name='Atom'] the dogs she will breed have good rating on the ofa site, and the dogs i met are nice and friendly. and she loves them. [/quote] But dogs she HAS bred were NOT OFAd. This is NOT something that a good and "reputable" breeder would do. EVER!!! And just because someones dogs are, "nice and friendly" and the owner " loves them". Is NOT a reason to breed. Why is it that people come and ask for opinions, get opinions, then make excuses for not listening to what people say? If someone is not willing to go to "all the trouble" to find a GOOD breeder that does all of the health testing that they SHOULD do for their breed. IMO, they had better not be surprised when/if they get a pup that isn't all it could be. How wil you feel if you get a pup with VWD or bad hips because you didn't want to go to all the trouble to find a breeder that screens for these things? I just don't get it. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Well, Atom, it sounds like youre not as concerned with the pups health as I originally thought. If youre not then there would be no problem with getting a puppy from a rescue. When you get a puppy from a breeder it seems to be more hassle researching than actually saving a life by adopting! Im not even going to get started on the whole breeder thing because thats why I left for a while in the first place but you need to do the right thing for the dog's sake. From the information Ive gathered and from what everyone else has said, it sounds like this breeder isnt the best choice to get your puppy from. Even if the two that mated were from different litters it was still imbreeding which can cause health problems. And most people go to breeders because they want healthy pups! I would rethink getting a puppy from that breeder and look elsewhere. It will be best for you in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 when i meant trouble, i meant since im 15 my parents have to drive me to go see breeders and they dont want to. i just got off the phone with her again and im going to buy one from her. both she and her husband are vets and they made sure to check the dogs for all kinds of testing and told me that the dogs have a "good" rating and does not have von willebrands. also she told me that what she did was linebreeding, not inbreeding, to keep good characteristics. Which i read was fairly common and okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Well I treat dogs better than humans lol and if I were to have a dog I would NOT breed it to its half-sibling! Thats like me and my half brother from my mothers side being married. Picture it that way and you wouldnt like it either. YUCK! And they dont have a grossed out emoticon so :eviltongue: (its grossed out not mad lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 *Deleted* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Edit: Nevermind this I dont want to start a debate... I did write something but I dont wanna get an argue started or anything. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 [quote name='Atom']when i meant trouble, i meant since im 15 my parents have to drive me to go see breeders and they dont want to. i just got off the phone with her again and im going to buy one from her. both she and her husband are vets and they made sure to check the dogs for all kinds of testing and told me that the dogs have a "good" rating and does not have von willebrands. also she told me that what she did was linebreeding, not inbreeding, to keep good characteristics. Which i read was fairly common and okay.[/quote] I don't care if the owners are vets, doctors or lawyers. I REALLY hope that you ask them for PROOF that the dogs have hip ratings AND negative VWD tests (And any other tests that are common for the breed.). If they are on the "up and up" they WILL have the paperwork to back up what they say and will be GLAD to show you said paperwork. The world is full of "breeders" that claim to have health checks done on their dogs but in reality they have NONE. I really hope that your parents are more "willing" after you get the pup. If they don't want to take you to visit breeders, who is to say that they are going to want to take the pup to the vet, to public places for socialization, and to obedience classes? What they did WAS inbreeding. And for the other poster. Judging by what is printed on the site in black and white, it was NOT done to try to improve their lines or any such thing. It was done because they owned both dogs and the bitch was not conceiving when bred to another stud dog. So basically they bred her to her 1/2 brother to see if she would get preg. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 [img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/calmdown.gif[/img] He already said he was going to buy one from her and i don't think there would be anything wrong with that. I think they would be fine to purchase. And they are close enough that Atom can check them out himself and pick the one he wants and personally view the parents. Not everyone has the money or time to spend to get a dog from far away. plus you can't view them. I wouldnt want to go throught the trouble either when there were perfectly good dogs close enough that i could view . If there was none close, or the ones close didnt do anything for me and i still really wanted one, then i would look else where. My parents wouldnt have been willing to shoaffer me around while i go look at breeders either..I don't know many that would.and just because they wouldnt do that didnt mean they had the attitude of not looking after there dogs. Be more realistic. My moms pure bred lab just died at the age of 16 and he she was bought from some ppl. that would be considered "backyard breeders". I think you all are being a little anal. lol...i know i'm going to get a kick in the ass for this. .....quick....duck and cover. [img]http://www.psychoticward.com/forums/images/smiles/hide.gif[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doobers Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 oops...sorry...forgot to log in to do my post. the above post was written by me. lol...let the bombing commence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I think that this breeder is probably fine to buy from. I do wonder why in the world Atom asked our advice when he was obviously set on buying from this breeder and not willing to consider anything else. It's annoying when people do that. Atom, why did you ask what people thought when it never mattered anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doobers Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 [quote name='kendalyn']I think that this breeder is probably fine to buy from. I do wonder why in the world Atom asked our advice when he was obviously set on buying from this breeder and not willing to consider anything else. It's annoying when people do that. Atom, why did you ask what people thought when it never mattered anyway?[/quote] Yes, but thats all it was....Advice. He took it with a grain of salt. He didnt ignore any of the advice that was given...he read it and made up his mind from there. it wasnt wrong either way. If he feels good about the decision he has made then he will be happily inclined to do a good job of it. I don't think his intentions were mallicious in that he was plotting to taking up your time to just poo poo it later...you all made valid points and made him aware of them. so its not like he's going into it blind. he has weighed all the pros and cons and decided what he has decided. it may not have been the right decision for you, but it was the right decision for him and his family...and thats all that matters. its not personal. I think your advice did matter to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I question the ethics of any breeder who would sell a dog to a 15 year old without speaking to their parents first. Nothing against 15 year olds honest .... I just question how serious the breeder is for selling a pup to a kid. I mean most breeders want some sort of conditions, spaying/neutering, showing, obedience school/class and the burden would fall on the parents to have this done. As a breeder myself, I would not sell a pup to a 15 year old, their parents maybe, but not a kid who is under legal age, unless they were registered as Junior Handlers or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_nea Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 [quote name='newfiemom']I personally would never buy a dog from a breeder who had a website or advertised on the internet. Most of these people are very shady. [/quote] Alot of good breeder have websites, my (well, Web's :lol: ) breeder does, as does Web's father's owner/breeder, and they are both fantastic. I've seen alot of other good, serious breeders websites too. Not that it has anythign to do with this thread really but I wanted to point out that not eveyrone who uses the interenet to advertise or inform about their kennel is shady. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 [quote name='Doobers'][quote name='kendalyn']I think that this breeder is probably fine to buy from. I do wonder why in the world Atom asked our advice when he was obviously set on buying from this breeder and not willing to consider anything else. It's annoying when people do that. Atom, why did you ask what people thought when it never mattered anyway?[/quote] Yes, but thats all it was....Advice. He took it with a grain of salt. He didnt ignore any of the advice that was given...he read it and made up his mind from there. it wasnt wrong either way. If he feels good about the decision he has made then he will be happily inclined to do a good job of it. I don't think his intentions were mallicious in that he was plotting to taking up your time to just poo poo it later...you all made valid points and made him aware of them. so its not like he's going into it blind. he has weighed all the pros and cons and decided what he has decided. it may not have been the right decision for you, but it was the right decision for him and his family...and thats all that matters. its not personal. I think your advice did matter to him.[/quote] But according to what was writen by the origional poster,what has been said was NOT even taken into consideration. The poster SAID that mom/dad don't WANT to go and visit other breeders. SO they are going with this one. And that since the breeders are supposed to be vets, that the dogs have had the necessary health checks. If they have PROOF of that then so be it, that's great. BUT taking their word for it, without proof IN WRITING, is just foolish. As is taking the word of a "breeder" that has something to loose(the money from a sale) by not giving the "correct" answers, versus strangers (meaning us on this board.) that have NOTHING to gain by telling it as we SEE it. It could very well be that they DO have proof of the health checks but just don't have them listed on their site. Just as it IS possible that they are full of bull and have NEVER done the tests. But the poster will never know unles the the breeders are asked to prove it. And if they ARE in fact good honest reputable breeders, they will be THRILLED to show the paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 [img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/elrond-sigh-icon.jpg[/img]I think some of you guys can take your selves a little too seriously. :lol: So here...try some balloons [img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/ballon.gif[/img] oooo...on second thought some of you can be pretty bossy....better make it these ones [img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/ballon1.gif[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doobers Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 oops...keep forgetting to sighn in before I post :D above post was mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 I took my post out for a reason but I agree with what Black GSD said. It was still imbreeding. :roll: Why does anyone even bother giving advice to somebody anymore? They dont listen. Its just a waste of finger power so you can type more for something else. :lol: Hmmm.... I want some balloons! *hugs them* MY BALLOONS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 [quote name='Anonymous'][img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/elrond-sigh-icon.jpg[/img]I think some of you guys can take your selves a little too seriously. :lol: So here...try some balloons [img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/ballon.gif[/img] oooo...on second thought some of you can be pretty bossy....better make it these ones [img]http://durphead.com/fishfarts/ballon1.gif[/img][/quote] (First of all, I love LOTR :wink: :lol: ) Secondly, no we do not take OURSELVES seriously, we just LOVE dogs and we've VERY serious when it comes to dogs. If that bothers you, then sorry, that's the way the forum is, you can't change that. Dogs is what this forum is all about, is it not? Atom came to us for advice, we give him/her advice. We try to warn him/her against breeder, breeder sounds fishy. That's it. Nothing more. That's what we DO here. It's a PUBLIC forum. We speak our mind here, no restrictions unless someone's feelings are hurt. A PUBLIC forum is all ABOUT opinions! Opinions, opinions, opinions. YOU can't change it. It wouldn't be any different if we were all together in real life, everybody would speak their mind. What's so wrong in telling Atom we felt something was wrong? Bossy? Excuse me? Expressing an opinion is being BOSSY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 [quote name='Kiwi']Very well said Rowie :D[/quote] Thank you, my dear. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Posted March 12, 2004 Author Share Posted March 12, 2004 why are people saying i dont listen to them... i reviewed everything people said and asked the breeder about all of it. and by what she said i was sold. i mean...what everyone said, she contradicted by talking to me... i dont think shes lying... thats kind of shameless...lying to sell a dog. i dont think shes a scam who says anything to sell her puppies. i believe her when she says she got all her dogs checked. when i go visit her once more i will look at those papers. i mean i talked to the person. i might be being prejudice but she doesnt seem like the kind of person that would sell a dog to anyone. and i did take people's opinions. a lot of people said she looks fine. also my parents took me and talked with the breeder. taking the dog to the vet, training school...etc. takes 5-10 minutes. they are willing to do that. but to go meet breeders, you have to set up a date, prepare to take the day off and drive around an hour to and fro. and why are people saying. i dont care. what she did was inbreeding? Then what is the definition of linebreeding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doobers Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 You know I've stayed out of this until now but Doobers do you have ANY idea how offensive that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doobers Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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