Atom Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 [url]www.windsordobermans.com[/url] i have went and met this breeder and talked to her a lot. She seems like a caring doberman breeder and it looks like her puppies are good quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holz_Boomer Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 :) Although im not in for breeding, i must say the dobies are all so cute and wonderfull :) you should talk to some of her past costumers :) its a good site with cute puppies that look quite healthy:D so are you interested in buying a Doberman?:D good luck :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I just have to add, have you ever thought of getting a dog from a rescue group? You might be pleasantly surprised... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Looks like a very good breeder to me. I would ask about is health tests/OFA ratings which I didnt see on the site, but dosen't mean that the breeder dosen't do them. Good luck on finding a puppy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I have had a look at the site it appears to be ok What did you think when you visited? Did the breeder question you? Did you feel she wants the best possible home for her puppies? Did she love all of her dogs? by answering those questions I would know if this was the breeder for me The good breeder will show you the health check papers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I would ask her for results from hips, von Wildebrands DNA tests, and other health tests. Her dogs look good and she seems to be a good breeder, but I do not like the fact that she bred two dogs that have the same mother. Also since the dobermann is a working dog, I would like to see that her dogs can actualy work, in any field, agility, obedience, tracking. She seems good, but try to get to talk to previous puppy buyers. Good luck with this breed, I love it to :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 [quote name='zheelah']I would ask her for results from hips, von Wildebrands DNA tests, and other health tests. Her dogs look good and she seems to be a good breeder, but I do not like the fact that she bred two dogs that have the same mother. Also since the dobermann is a working dog, I would like to see that her dogs can actualy work, in any field, agility, obedience, tracking. She seems good, but try to get to talk to previous puppy buyers. Good luck with this breed, I love it to :wink:[/quote] She DOES appear to breed dogs that are NOT OFA :x . (She only has 7 dogs that show on the OFA site as being OFA fair of better. Is this because they are the only ones xrayed? Or is it because they are the only ones that "passed"?) She only has 1 dog that shows on the OFA site as far as being tested for VWD. One of the bitches that has had several litters does NOT show on the OFA site. She does have some that have a CD. (But that really isn't that hard. You CAN have a dog with a bad temperment get a CD. ) And I TOTALLY agree. I REALLY don't like the fact that she bred brother to sister. :evil: (Even IF they did have different sires.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 [quote name='Black GSD'][quote name='zheelah']I would ask her for results from hips, von Wildebrands DNA tests, and other health tests. Her dogs look good and she seems to be a good breeder, but I do not like the fact that she bred two dogs that have the same mother. Also since the dobermann is a working dog, I would like to see that her dogs can actualy work, in any field, agility, obedience, tracking. She seems good, but try to get to talk to previous puppy buyers. Good luck with this breed, I love it to :wink:[/quote] She DOES appear to breed dogs that are NOT OFA :x . (She only has 7 dogs that show on the OFA site as being OFA fair of better. Is this because they are the only ones xrayed? Or is it because they are the only ones that "passed"?) She only has 1 dog that shows on the OFA site as far as being tested for VWD. One of the bitches that has had several litters does NOT show on the OFA site. She does have some that have a CD. (But that really isn't that hard. You CAN have a dog with a bad temperment get a CD. ) And I TOTALLY agree. I REALLY don't like the fact that she bred brother to sister. :evil: (Even IF they did have different sires.)[/quote] With this knowlegde I would not buy from her, there are a lot of good dobermann breeders out there. I would not buy a dog if the parents are not OFA rated, with this particular breed I would never buy if the parents are not DNA tested for von Wildebrands. I think that it is stoopid to breed a working type breed and not work with it, the dobermann is a working dog and it should be able to work, if it isn't able it should not be used for breeding. How is it in america, can a dobermann become a champion with out passing a working test??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 [quote name='zheelah'] How is it in america, can a dobermann become a champion with out passing a working test???[/quote] In America the ONLY thing a dog of ANY breed has to do in order to become a Champion is "look pretty" :evil: . (And not try to bite the judge.) I have seen dogs that have AWEFULL temperments get their Championship :roll: . They are judged SOLEY on their conformation and movement (how closely they resemble the breed standard). They can have bad hips (Being xrayed is NOT required to gain a championship, NOR is it required before they can be bred), bad temperments(not saying all or even most DO have bad temperments, but they CAN, and some DO.), and NO working ability. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 *Deleted* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 [quote name='Black GSD'] In America the ONLY thing a dog of ANY breed has to do in order to become a Champion is "look pretty" :evil: . (And not try to bite the judge.) I have seen dogs that have AWEFULL temperments get their Championship :roll: . They are judged SOLEY on their conformation and movement (how closely they resemble the breed standard). They can have bad hips (Being xrayed is NOT required to gain a championship, NOR is it required before they can be bred), bad temperments(not saying all or even most DO have bad temperments, but they CAN, and some DO.), and NO working ability. :evil:[/quote] OMI that is really stoopid, and I will never understand why AKC is ok with this. Many working dogs come from Germany, like the dobermann, rottweiler, GSD and many others, and a dog of a working breed cant become a champion if it doesn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjeffrock Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I just browsed the site quickly. This is just my opinion, but I would avoid breeders like the plague who breed OFA "fair" dogs. OFA should be AT LEAST good, if not excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 *Deleted* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 First of all, you can't say to stay away from OFA Fair dogs. You can breed two fairs and get all pups with excellent hips. You really need to look at the siblings and offspring to determine if the hips are questionable. My girl has "fair" hips yet all of her siblings have excellent hips as do most in her pedigree. The sire is also excellent along with all of his siblings and offspring. The puppies have all been PennHip'd and right now are showing all excellent. Also, it is not a brother sister breeding if the sire is different. If would be 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister. This is considered "loose" linebreeding which is not uncommon to serious breeders who want to develop a "look" to their lines or stay within the standard for the breed. You would need to look at the pedigrees of the two dogs mated and look at those dogs to determine if you will get what you want. If all you are looking for is a healthy puppy as a pet maybe to do agility/obedience then my primary concern would be HEALTH. What is the breeder offering you as far as guarantees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 A ROM (Registry of Merit) is also nothing to sneeze at. That means that the dog consistently produced pups that consistently won championships. ROM is really the top of the line in brood bitches and quite an accomplishment for the breeder. This is not the only reason of course to get a dog from a dog that has a ROM, but it is something to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjeffrock Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Judy, I dont doubt that most offspring from two OFA-fair parents would be fine. Of course two OFA-excellent dogs could produce a litter w/ hip dysplasia. You could also breed two OFA-fair hips and get disastrous results. I still stand by my statement that I would never purchase a dog from a breeder who breeds OFA-fair dogs. To each their own, I am sure you carefully research your dogs siblings/offspring, etc. before you breed, but it is just not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 It's not a good gauge is all I'm saying. In the OFA paperwork, it says in very small teeny tiny print "do not OFA Xray your bitch within 8 weeks of her season, since the results will be false" I did mine at 2 weeks after her season and they came back fair. If I had seen the "small print" and waited an additional 6 weeks, they would have come back excellent and her vets read them as good and stands by a good rating as far as she is concerned. It is virtually impossible to get the OFA to change their originally reading plus the cost to keep re-doing xrays with anesthesia is costly ... at $200 - $300 a pop. OFA Fair readings is not the only way to judge a dog from a breeder. There are show titles, performance titles, talking to previous owners. For a bitch to have a litter of 4 for a doberman is not bad. Perhaps she was older when she was bred, in the 7 to 8 year range. The older the bitch the smaller the litter. I know a Champion bitch Belgian Sheepdog who consistently produced 3 - 4 pup litters. There was nothing wrong with her or the sire, they were just weak producers. This means nothing ..... the male might have been a poor producer. You need to look at others litters he's sired, were they small? Hey it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Jeff, This of course is just as disastrous as your second statement [quote]"Of course two OFA-excellent dogs could produce a litter w/ hip dysplasia"[/quote] As a breeder you would have more of chance of producing dysplastic pups with two OFA Excellent parents with OFA poor/fair siblings & offspring in 5 generations than you would by breeding two OFA Fair parents with Excellent readings on their siblings & offspring. Check out the genetics. [quote]You could also breed two OFA-fair hips and get disastrous results.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjeffrock Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Judy, you are absolutely correct. I agree it would be irresponsible to not check out the genetics before breeding. I guess I should have clarified this better in my previous posts :oops: I have a friend who was looking to buy an Akita. I tried and tried to get him to look into some rescues, but he decided he wanted a young puppy. He showed me some prospective litters and when I researched the sire and dam (who had excellent hips) I saw quite a few problems with regards to siblings and off-spring with HD. So, i convinced him to look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 In that case Jeff you were right to direct him elsewhere. If offspring and siblings of the sire and dam consistently produced HD (assuming the sire and dam were bred multiple times and enough time had passed to have the offspring and siblings tested) then that was a good decision to send him elsewhere. Some breeds are more prone to it, like labs and gsd's because of overbreeding, line breeding etc. I don't know about the Akita's tho, I never researched them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyHoffman Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Just to add, I'm sure Dobie Rescue is just looking for someone just like you for one of their dogs. One of the Dobes who shows at Westminster was taken away from his owner because he kept him tied out all the time. He is now a champion in the show ring. One mans trash is another mans treasure .... check out Rescue! I'm sure you can find a great dobie there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 [quote name='SexxieRacerChik']Emmm.....well not everyone who owns a dog owns one to use/work. Are you suggesting that people who just want a pet shouldn't get certain breeds of dogs? So people who have Border Collie's shouldn't have them unless they work a herd with them? Thats kinda silly don't you think?[/quote] No that is not what I mean, my dogs are pets, but I still work with them, I use my border collie to herd horses, and I obedience train them both, and we do agility and tracking and I am even starting SAR training with by BC, but both my dogs, my BC and my dobermann are still my pets. Well I did not speccify the kind of work a certain breed should be doing, but IMO if you want a dog of a working breed, you should know that the dog is most likely to be a dog that you can train or work with, I have a border collie and a dobermann and I train them both in a lot of fields, agility, obedience, herding and others, the point is that you do something with you dog, be it obedience, tracking, schutzhund or just simple tricks. If you want a dobermann just because it is beautifull (well they are really stunning) and you if you dont want to do anything with it, I would advise a different breed, or better yet just get a statue. I am in no way saying that you have to schutzhund train them, but every dog should be obedience trained and then you can do any kind of work or training you like, the dobermann is in fact a working dog and if you dont do anything with it it is likely to become destructive and in most ways the worst dog in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 *Deleted* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atom Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 anyways...back on topic... the dogs she will breed have good rating on the ofa site, and the dogs i met are nice and friendly. and she loves them. i didnt ask her yet about the von wilde something...lol. i also got some mixed emotions on breeding puppies from the same litter. I dont really think they are from the same litter or even if they are half siblings because they have a lot of dogs. i dont wanna look for another breeder because they always live really far away and there is really no way for me to judge them unless i see some pictures of the dogs or meet them in person...so i dont want to go through al the trouble... also i dont want to get a dog from the rescue because i want a puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Bitch Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 You know Atom, a LOT of puppies turn up in rescue too. :wink: They just go faster. It isn't always just older dogs. I just did a search for Doberman+Ca+rescue and found several puppies. You said you didn't want to go through all the trouble of looking for other breeders because of the distance, but puppies are a lot of trouble. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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