Guida Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I'm from Portugal and I'm going crazy. Why do Americans Lok their dogs in mini jails. That is what a crate is, isn't it? No wonder they are sad[img]http://doggroups.com/community/images/smiles/dogzpupwithbone.gif[/img] Are their houses made of glass and they are afraid the dogs may break them. [img]http://doggroups.com/community/images/smiles/pupwithredball.gif[/img] Guida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Actually, for me it's a question of my DOG'S safety, not my house. My dogs are crated when there is no one home to watch them or when it's night. I love my dogs and know that they're curious. I would never forgive myself if they got into something that caused them harm. Maybe you can't understand that and let your dogs have free run of the house all the time. That's your decision. My decision is to make sure that my naturally curious animals, who by the way will eat anything, remain safe and healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 WHAT!!!?!!! Mini-jail, obviously you know NOTHING about crating. My dogs love thier crates, it thier own special place, they can go there when they want to be left alone. They go in on their own, because its like a den, a place to sleep and feel safe. my dogs have been crated since puppyhood and I HIGHLY reccomend crating as a means of housebreaking. it speeds up the process beyond words. also when you have company over and your dog gets really wound up the crate is a great place to put them, where they can still see everything and not be in the way. I dont know whats worse your misconception of what a crate is, or your assumption that a crate is a cage of some kind. my favorite line: Read A Book! find out the true use of the item before you deem it to be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 They are not mini jails and our dogs are not sad! When I first brought Buck home, I had no idea if he had ever even been in a house. I found him half starved in the woods in Kentucky. It would have been dangerous to leave him in the house alone right off the bat. He could have chewed electrical wires, pulled something down on top of him, or ate any number of small objects and chocked. Buck stayed in his crate at night and when I was gone for about 9 months until he was reliably house trained and I could be sure that he would not hurt himself. He still loves his crate. I never lock him in anymore but he spends a lot of his down time in there. He sleeps in there at night all on his own even though I don't shut the door and I'm fairly certain that he is in there a lot when I leave. Almost every time I come home, he comes running to the door from the direction of his crate. It's really mean to say that we don't care for our dogs and just lock them away. And why do you think that our dogs are sad?? And it isn't just Americans that use crates. There are people from many different countries here and I'm sure at least some of them have used a crate before. Next time if you have a question, please ask it more respectfully because that is insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferky1 Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 We crate trained Miles from 11 weeks through 6 months. While we don't use a crate anymore, it was an invalueable tool for housetraining, keeping him safe when no one could watch him and providing him with a safe place of his own. My pup would go into his crate willingly and would certainly never consider it a 'jail.' I credit our ease in training Miles to the effectiveness of proper crate usage. Guida, you are either misinformed or just a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjeffrock Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 :agrue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Buster Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 lol this has to be a trol.. no one can be that missinformed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guida Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 My dog sleeps at night in my parents room. During the day the house is his, he goes everywhere and that happens from day one (he had almost 3 months). When he is left alone in the house he goes to the Kitchen, it has door to a balcony. He has his food there and his bed is placed there. He is Potty trained, but he is only 18 weeks. When he is alone for to long he does is needs on the balcony as he was taught. He is left with lots of toys and he can look down on the balcony and se the street below. [img]http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=199f146d-1602-2438-479a-2f7a649f53aa&size=lg[/img] Guida PS: I never looked at a crate in my entire life. I some one could post a picture of one I would apreciate. I was told it was a large dog house with a door to lock the dog in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Whoa folks calm down! Lay off here and give Guida a chance and don't be so quick to pre-judge. UK and Europeans in [i]general [/i]don't use cages "crates" to the same extent as Americans. Guida was only putting across her point which is what we are all entitled to here. My view on cages is that they are indeed handy and if I have young pups that I am fostering, then they will be caged as they can't go rampaging messing all over the room; they don't know any better :wink: With own pet dogs its a matter of choice and I respect that it is a lifeline perhaps for a destructive or aggressive dog in a multi-dog household. However my own personal preference is that a dog should be content in the house and not need a cage, which is why my lot are not caged and don't need cages either. Even when I take Meg to Crufts, we stay at a guest house and when we go to the pub for dinner, she stays in the bedroom in the guesthouse and is fine left for a few hours. I suppose it just all depends on how you perceive your own dog and how much faith you have also. One thing Guida: you said about letting your pup roam to the balcony. [b]Please please [/b]be careful. Pups can jump surprisingly high and I have seen so many cases where dogs have fallen over balconies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 wow, you're SO right about mini jails...and mine hated the mini jail I got for them so much that I had to go and buy two more mini jails because they all wanted to sleep in the same mini jail. yeah, they really, really, hate it..... :roll: they even go in them to eat and hide thier toys, not to mention all the napping they do in them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I'm not American. I've used a crate for two out of my three dogs. Lucky was housetrained by no more then 10 weeks using a crate. (probably earlier I don't really remember the exact age, though I know it wasen't more then a month after we got him.) He LOVED his crate. The dogs have their own couch, are allowed on the bed as long as they behave, but where did he choose to sleep? The "mini-jail". Chaos hated the crate. I found she ONLY had accidents in it. So she wasen't forced to use it. But she wasen't a chewer like Lucky was either. My newest dog Riley had to be put in the crate, for one he wasen't fully housetrained even at a year old, (he's a rescue), he is definately a chewer, and also for his own safety, as him and Chaos didn't always get along. I guess it all depends on the dog, but I've found most dogs love to be in their crate and will willingly sleep in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guida Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 I just sow a crate in the other post. It's worse then I thought. Snoopy is just a babbie, he loves to play, to jump, to run. I think he would die in there. This is Snoopy's bed: [img]http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=45663a37-518b-5068-992e-7579118f865a&size=lg[/img] And this where he loves to sleep during the day: [img]http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=4ccb1dcb-1dc6-2cb6-2af6-36371c2357ae&size=lg[/img] Guida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 [quote]It's really mean to say that we don't care for our dogs and just lock them away. And why do you think that our dogs are sad?? And it isn't just Americans that use crates. There are people from many different countries here and I'm sure at least some of them have used a crate before. Next time if you have a question, please ask it more respectfully because that is insulting. [/quote] I have been told in Britain they call them "cages"...which I dont care for because "crate" sounds nicer somehow... :) However, Guida, they are not mini-jails..they are tools which we use to both train (housebreak) and control our pets. If crated properly, most learn to love their crates, and treat them as dens and sanctuaries from noise and distraction. My one dog would not be crated, she is claustropohobic (fear of enclosed places), which she may have learned from me, since I am as well. But usually, they get along very well in a crated environment, providing it's not used for punishment and is looked upon as a peacful resting place. It provides them with an environment similar to the one their mother would have...a den, safe and secure. They are usually metal wired, or plastic wired. The dog can see out and is not enlosed, like in a box or a doghouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guida Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 Now I'm confused. You do not potty train your dogs? I mean..., if they stay in the crate when they are babbies, how can they learn to hask to go out side to do their neads? I mean... you have them doing their neads in the crate? That is not very higienic is it? Guida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjeffrock Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 [img]http://www.post-whore.com/forum/images/upload/Pictures/Bad%20Thread/644.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I think we have a culture or language barrier here.... Guida, a crate is used for housetraining the same way a mother would den her pups. In MOST cases, animals will not soil where they sleep, in a den the pup would walk away from it's bed and soil in another part of the den, which the mother would clean up. Enclosing the puppy in a small crate (big enough to stand up and turn around, and lay down but no bigger) usually causes their den instincts to prevent them from soiling. They do need to be removed at regualr intervals, like Newfiemom said, and if you are home you dont have to close the door if the pup will remain in there quietly. If you are not home, it is safer for the pup to be crated. Puppies are extremely curious, and with no one there to watch them (for instance I work full time) they can electrocute themselves chewing on wires, pull stuff off of tables on top of themselves, and destroy things in the house. Once they are housebroken, most of them still choose to sleep in their crate because it's become thier bed, their den, and their quiet place. You say Snoopy sleeps in your parents room? Is one of your parents home all day? It's much easier to train a puppy without a crate when someone is there all day to watch it. Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guida Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 Ok I can play that game to. Don't be offended, this just a Joke: Here are some pictures of your dogs: [img]http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/hsc0771l.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.newyorktails.com/mookie.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.practical-pet-care.com/images/attack/news-jail.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.firstcoastnews.net:8080/news/2003-01-13/images/betsy_shotgun_sophie.jpg[/img] Guida [img]http://doggroups.com/community/images/smiles/dogpat.gif[/img] [/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 It sounds to me like you don't realize that they aren't in there for that long. A young puppy like yours wouldn't be left inside the crate during the day for longer than 5 or 6 hours. They don't live their lives in a crate. That's ridiculous. Many people stop using them once their dog is reliable in the house, but some people use them permanently. People with multiple dogs are more likely to use them permanently I think. And there's nothing wrong with that. I had intended to get rid of Buck's once he didn't need it any longer. But now I can't because he would be so sad. Once someone closed the door and I didn't know it. He came to me whining and crying running between me and the room where the crate was until I went in there and opened it for him. I literally can't get rid of it without making him really sad. So now that you know a little about crate training, do you think it is wrong? And if so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Just look at these poor dogs... How cruel of us. :lol: [img]http://www.probo.com/timr/P9220017.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.ashlandkennel.com/images/pup_hangin_out_small.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.ashlandkennel.com/images/pup_snoozin_crate_small.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.boxerworld.com/puppy/charlie8weekscrate.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.esmondrott.com/charmcrate.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guida Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 I've nothing agaist it if the door is open. Like that is just a wird looking dog house. The problem is the lock, and for five to six hours a day! And those cages in the pictures they are so Small... Guida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Pupppies need to sleep! They need to sleep way more than 5 or 6 hours a day. Sleeping in their crate while you are gone is no different than sleeping on the couch while you are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Guida, That is a very ignorant attitude to have. Just because someone does something different to you does not make it wrong. Just like there are many ways to live your life or raise your children there are also many different ways for people to look after their pets. I live in Australia where crating dogs for long periods of time is really not the done thing. To tell the truth if I hadn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDG Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 okay, i'll bite. seems to me like an obvious troll, but if anyone who reads this thread manages to get some valuable information out of it, it's at least not entirely useless. some reasons why it is a good thing to have your dog crate trained: * house training. a dog will (generally) not soil where he sleeps, and the more often you can PREVENT an accident indoors and praise elimination in the proper spot outside, the faster the dog will get the idea. it's so much easier to put the dog in the crate for any period of time you can't supervise than to clean up messes. * less frustration from destructive puppies in situations where you can't supervise them. you get mad every time your puppy destroys something valuable because you weren't watching him - my dog is comfortable in his crate, chewing on safe chew toys that are HIS. * i don't want to come home to an injured or dead dog. do you know what your dog could possibly get into when he has the run of the house completely unsupervised? chewed up electrical cords are one thing that comes to mind. unforeseen things like earthquakes (yes, i live in CA) also come to mind. see more about this under the last paragraph (travelling). * if your dog ever has to be hospitalized and he does not accept a crate/cage as a safe, secure place, it will stress him unnecessarily to be shut in one for a stay at the vet's office. there he won't be able to sleep on a couch or loveseat. the same goes for a trip to the groomer's or a boarding facility. * if you ever have to fly with your dog, it will be less stressful for him in a familiar carrier than in a "box" he is not familiar with. * dog sports/competitions (agility, flyball, dog camp etc. etc.). are you going to keep your dog on a leash all day? it's generally expected that your dog is used to a crate at such events. it's also much less stressful for him to be crated comfortably in HIS "den", away from the crowds. * travelling. it is much safer for a dog to travel in a crate in the car. i don't want my dog to come flying to the front and possibly through the windshield in an accident (a seatbelt harness in the back seat isn't always a solution). or worse, escape from a wrecked car and die running into traffic? it's also a familiar place to sleep in at hotels. and last but not least, a SAFE way to be rescued from a car wreck or unfamiliar surroundings in case of a fire or other disasters. do you think that fire fighters for example are going to deal with a frightened, possibly aggressive dog and risk getting bitten? if the dog is safely contained, they can just pick up the crate (or pull it out of a damaged car) and carry the dog to safety. if left home alone, most dogs will sleep almost the entire time anyway, so why would it matter if they sleep in a crate they like and are familiar with, or somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Guida, you never answered my question... is one or both of your parents home all day? In that case, crating would not necessarily be necessary.... I am trying to give you as much information as I can, without being rude, but you are not helping your own cause by accusing "Americans" of jailing their pets. If you really want information about crating, then ask without accusing. If not, if you are trolling, then GO AWAY... We crate for ALL of the reasons listed above...and it has been proven to be an effective training tool, especially if you cant be home all day. and it's not just "Americans"...people all over the world use crates to train/control their dogs. YOUR dog is lucky enough to not need it, but all dogs AREN'T... My dogs now need no crates..they are trained and I can leave them loose all day. Some people have dogs who cannot be trusted in those circumstances...Should they not have dogs then? I tried to be reasonable...I expect you to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Even though this person seems very narrow-minded. I think some people should stop bickering and posting useless pictures and try to educate her more. If she walks away with a bit more knowledge and less an attitude towards crates then we've acomplished a lot. If not, well maybe someone else will read this topic and learn something! TDG gave some awsome points!! Guida - I can almost understand where your comming from, honestly. I at first thought locking your dog up in a crate for up to 5 hours or so was cruel! But then I read more info about it and talked to more people, and eventually got my own crate which is HUGE. Way bigger then it probably needs to be, but I had two dogs at the time and they both slept in it at night. My crate I have now isn't very pretty, it's dammaged a deal and has deffently been used. It's now set up in my sister's old room and barely gets used, but I do plan on training my new Pup in it, and have already started and he's getting a lot better. I didn't crate train Coal when he was a wee baby. That was a HUGE mistake. I tried to, but I was going through problems as well as had to go to school in the morning and sleeping with a CRYING puppy was not doing me any good. I eventually let him out, and worse he slept on my bed. It took FOREVER to housetrian him, and he even had accidents right on my bed! :-? It was a terrible battle. When we left him at home for a little while he had to be locked in a room, which he always ended up soiling in (never on the paper towel layed out of course :roll: ) and even though I THOUGHT I puppy proofed the room completely, we'd come home to chewed up books, paper everywhere, and even my computer mouse torn up (good thing it was all turned off). Now when I leave for a while I put him in the laundry room where EVERYTHING gets picked up off the floor and high on these huges shelves we have, and he's never in there for more then an Hour. I can't wait until he's fully crate trained and it's no longer stressful for him. I also plan on entering him in agility and he will need to be crated for transportation and while at the trial. Coal is also very dominent now because I let him get away with crying and getting his way and sleeping on my bed. BAD EXAMPLE of how to crate train and I regret it and am kicking myself now for it. However, this is not always the case. I crate trained my last dog Hazel and it was a jewl to have. She was aggressive so I didn't have to worry about the leash slipping or her pulling me when people came over, I just put her in her crate with her toys and food and she was fine. It's a really great place to keep your dog and have peace of mind. Dogs can get into ANYTHING that can kill them!! Electrical cords, house cleaners, the garbage which can contail foil and probably about a million things that can get stuck in their intestines or poison them! Even if your dog is a charm at home, there's no garantees he will NEVER chew up ANYTHING! Dogs chew when their bored and there's no stopping it! Even with tons of toys around the house dogs will often find other things that will entertain them but could quite possibly harm them as well! I know with Coal, he'd rather play with a carboard box then his toys sometimes :lol: :roll: before you scream it's evil, open your mind a little and realize it can prevent the dog from a LOT of harm, and it does not hurt them to be confined for a couple hours! They would otherwise probably be sleeping that time anyway, and like mentioned on here, to them it's their safe place, their den. Just like you would rather sleep in your own bed in your own room, your dog likes to have it's own personal space too! In case your willing to open your mind... here's some links about training with crates: [url]http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/cratetraining.htm[/url] [url]http://www.perfectpaws.com/crt.html[/url] [url]http://www.cuhumane.org/topics/crate.html[/url] There are many more great articals if you just go to google or some other search engine and type in "Crate Training". P.S. I am NOT American, Canadian in fact and proud to be it :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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