Taurus and Jada Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Taurus has always been very protective of his food/bones, but mostly with other dogs not usually with us. Lately though, he has been growling when we go near him when he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDG Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 maybe you just need to go back to square one. to me it sounds like you know what you are doing and it worked before. :) just taking the bone away entirely when he growls might send the wrong signal and he could stop using the growling as a warning and instead proceed to the next step - snapping. i highly recommend the book "the other end of the leash" by patricia mcconnell, it outlines the differences in human and canine communication really well. it could be helpful in your situation. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I have found with the dogs I have taken in which at first guarded their resources etc. I use the nothing is free in life policy and I also taught each of my dogs "off" and "take it". I really think this is a valuable training tool...it shows the dog that yes, I; as your owner have access to every item...I choose to share my stuff with you because I am just such a nice person... :wink: when I taught my Rottie "off" and "take it" I took a really great treat (a piece of boiled liver) and put it in my hand....I made my Rottie sit in front of me and showed her the piece of liver in my hand and told her "off" when she went to grab for it I made my hand into a fist to cover the treat...I told her once again "off" opened my hand and showed her the treat...this went on and on until she finally gave up and just looked away...at this point I opened my hand and offered the treat by saying "take it"....I still practice this excerise all the time...playing a game of fetch...she MUST bring the toy back to me...I tell her "off" she gives it to me knowing that I am going to throw it for her again...I try to reinforce this exercise at all times...when she has a bone, I will walk over and say "off" take the bone away for a moment and then give it right back to her...and offer it to her by saying "take it"...I have found with some dogs they can become especially guarding if they think some thing is going to be taken away and not brought back to them. With the meals for all 6 of my dogs I prepare their meals and make them all sit before giving them their meals...then I place their dishes down in front of them and let them eat...I don't sit there and watch them as they eat or intimidate them by putting my hand in their food...although I could do this if I wanted to...I wouldn't think that would be a good idea as the dog is being challenged while its eating and it may even suspect you are begging for his dinner or trying to steal it! :lol: It's best to be straight forward with a dog and make him say please before getting his dinner...but, once he starts eating let him enjoy his meal...if a dog feels there is a reason to guard, then he will...I found with my dogs that they are not guarding their food any more, they know I'm not going to steal it...I have also used differenct tactics such as while my dogs are eating...I might take out some yummy treats and offer it to them while they eat...basically showing them that they may have a great dinner...but, I may have something better... I also use the nothing is free in life policy with all my dogs..good or evil...it basically gives your dogs house rules to follow and gives them better manners. At the grooming/boarding facility I work at we have had great success with alot of our clients who were going through the same problems as you are experiencing, the nothing is free in life policy worked great for them...I would have all members of the household practice this policy and make it a life long commitment. Its basically you & family members control all resources...and you are also showing the dogs that you will share your items cause you are just so nice. I would have the dogs sit before play time, sit before going out side, site before eating, sit before getting a treat....etc. etc. The book suggested by TDG is a wonderful book as well and there are other books that were suggested to me when I attended dog aggression seminars... The culture clash by Jean Donaldson Calming signals by Turid Ruugas Dog behaviour by Dr. Ian Dunbar PhD, DVM I would also seek the advice of an animal behaviorist...some one who practices "positive training methods only" difficult to get through...for this I would seek expert advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I agree. Go back to desensitizing they way you were and add NILIF. If you get to the point where you can take food and treats away but never seem to be able to take the bones - never give bones. For around 3 months neither Kavik nor Zaphod got treats, except when I was training them, because Kavik thought they were all his. :roll: A fair portion of our training was teaching Kavik this was not so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 One more thing...if you have to take an item away from Taurus..make sure you have some thing better to offer. For example if Taurus has gotten a hold of one of your childrens toys and starts gaurding...offer a tasty treat...this rewards the dog for dropping the valued item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 [quote name='Cassie'] For example if Taurus has gotten a hold of one of your childrens toys and starts gaurding...offer a tasty treat...this rewards the dog for dropping the valued item.[/quote] I personally don't like this approach. Reason being that you are REWARDING the dog for having something he shouldn't. And if he is very smart, (which I'm SURE he is.) Chances are that he will LEARN that he gets a treat for having something he shouldn't. So when he want's a treat, he will just grab something he shouldn't have. (My mother has a Pom that does this EXACT thing. He will grab something he KNOWS he shouldn't, then look at her and wait for a treat.) :roll: We KNOW that we are rewarding the dog for giving up the item we don't want them to have, THEY seem to see it as being rewarded for HAVING the item. Also wanted to add. Even with a dog that will let you take anything and everything from them. It is STILL not good to let kids mess with them or get too close when they are eating of chewing on a toy/bone. They ARE dogs, and anything can happen at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 *Deleted* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 [b]Quote by Black GSD[/b] [quote]I personally don't like this approach. Reason being that you are REWARDING the dog for having something he shouldn't. And if he is very smart, (which I'm SURE he is.) Chances are that he will LEARN that he gets a treat for having something he shouldn't. So when he want's a treat, he will just grab something he shouldn't have. (My mother has a Pom that does this EXACT thing. He will grab something he KNOWS he shouldn't, then look at her and wait for a treat.) [/quote] Now Black GSD perhaps you feel the advice I gave was completely wrong...but, if you read the orginal post by Taurus and Jada...which is... [quote]Taurus has always been very protective of his food/bones, but mostly with other dogs not usually with us. Lately though, he has been growling when we go near him when he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I agree with Cassies NILIF training...but I would definitely add this... I agree that it could be counterproductive to reward the dog for taking something he shouldnt have...it would be different if he knew "off" or "drop it", but he doesnt at this point. My suggestion is to keep a two feet lead on him whenever you are in the house. If he takes something he shouldnt, or guards his bones from you, you pull HIM away from the bone, not put yourself in danger trying to get it from him. Once pulled away, lop the leash end under a strong chair, or put him behind a baby gate where he can see you, and pick up the bone and put it away. Where he can see you do it. If you feel safer with a longer lead, then use that. Make him go through 5 minutes of obedience training, then reward him with the bone when you are done. 10 minutes later, try to take it away again. Keep this up until he understands he DOES NOT get the bone at all unless he complies with obedience training, and if he tries to keep it from you, he loses it. I have used this method successfully with "guarding" problem dogs...it takes a bit of work and repetition, but it does eventually work out. Use this in conjunction with Cassies NILIF... He's gotten a bit above himself T&J... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I forgot to add that when you pull him away from the bone/food/whatever, issue a loud and firm OFF or DROP IT...and then let him see you take it away. With the obedience training afterwards you are reinforcing your role as alpha, and teaching him the drop it command as well. I use drop it in this instance because I use OFF when they jump up. Dont want to confuse them too badly... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Cassie, I didn't say that you were "completely wrong". I simply gave MY opinion on the method you posted. (And mentioned what COULD happen if that method was used.) The origional poster, IMO, should have as much info as possible. Then it is their choice how to proced with the individual dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurus and Jada Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Well, thanks you to all that posted for me. I have posted the exact same post on several boards, and wow... I have alot of resources to go on now. That is fantastic! I am not worried about Taurus biting me, as someone stated... perhaps he was having a bed day. I am not excusing his behavior though, don't worry. I have been hand feeding him for the last two days both of his meals per day. I scoop his food out, make him come over and lay in front of me, and stay for 1 min before I start to feed him. The I hand feed him his food. I am going to do this for a week. I think it is important that Taurus understands that food comes from me, and also that feeding time is a good time. The food will not be the big obstacle for us, it is the bones. Anything really good that he feels is worth protecting. This is why I am setting up an appointment to see a behaviorist. Anyways, thanks again for all the great advice Kara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 [quote]The food will not be the big obstacle for us, it is the bones. Anything really good that he feels is worth protecting. [/quote] I think this is fairly common. Kavik was like this for a while. Treats and special things tend to be what dogs fight over, when they get enough regular food there is little point fighting over it. Most people won't bring toys to the offlead park near me for this reason. Excellent to hear you have things well in hand. Do you have any idea what behaviourist your going to? There is some Wade guy in London who will do one on one's at a location of your choosing - like your home. We had him in when Kavik was giving us a real go and it helped a fair bit - simple stuff really but it helped. You might want someone with more specific expertise if you can find them but if not I would definately give him a ring and at least see if he is too your liking. If your interested I'll look up the number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurus and Jada Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Actually John Wade was exactly who we were planning on calling. I have heard really good things about him, so we thought we would give it a shot. We live just outside London ( Dorchester) so Im not sure if he will come to our house or not, but hopefully he will. I think that would be beneficial with the other dog present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I believe he will come out he will just charge more, he is a bit pricey by the way but he is a natural with dogs and knows his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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