Edgar Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Has anyone trained their doggies to do "the stance"? You know like in the the show pictures, legs back a bit, head leaning forward, muscles flexed? I notice Blitz looks like that when he goes pee (doesn't life his leg) but i don't think thats a usable pose to start from as everytime I tell him to do it he'll probably end up taking a leak ! Any suggestions on how to train him to do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Well I am guessing that he is a GSD (I remeber him from other posts), the GSD has a very special show stance, unlike other breeds it is supposed tohave the inner back leg (the one further away from the judge) under the body and the other streched out. First you teach your dog to stand still and alow you to mess with his legs, then you move his inner back leg (the one closer to you) a bit under the body and it is very usefull to place your foot behind it to keep him from replacing it. then you use your hand to slide the outer back leg a bit back and keep it there. Then you practise and try an keep in the stance for a longer period of time, but dont go over a couple of minutes or he will get very boared. To keep his attetnion focused forward it is usefull to place/toss a toy/tidbit in front of him and it will probabl help in keeping him still, when he is done he can get the toy or tidbit as a reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 [img]http://www.tramellagsd.co.uk/benny%20s.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.eastgermanshepherd.com/amistad.jpg[/img] Here's a GSD show stack, but I'm not sure how to teach them to stand like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajiesMom Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Blitz is not a showline GSD why do you want to train him to stack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajiesMom Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 [quote name='Kiwi'] Now when we do go into the ring, she does her own thing and will show herself, I only go, because she's not allowed in there by herself :-?[/quote] Am Showline GSDs I've found just stand like that. There is no way in hell I could get Magic to stack in a show pose because....well first, I'd have to cripple her. She has a straight back and with good structure might I add. :wink: I'm sorry but I hate to look at dogs standing on their hocks and with crunched up banana backs, yuck, have you seen the extremes?? It's too bad dogs are rarely breed for health rather than looks. If they put 1/2 as much effort into improving health instead of just crippling the breed for sake of a show ribbon, title, bragging rights or whatever...never mind off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajiesMom Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 [quote name='Kiwi']Hi Leslie, Thank god the last group of GSDs I watched, the judge turned his nose up at those dogs, and went for a more natural looking one :-?[/quote] That's cool! I hear a lot of other breeders and show people talk bad about GSDs because of the way they look and about their character. Their character/temperament hasn't got any better, they are so fearful and afraid of their own shadow and will jump at any noise or movement (actually I wonder how they can show dogs like that????) The illustrated version of the standard shows a much different dog then the ones in the show ring - the standard portrays a more sturdy dog with a good rear and straight back. That Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 What on earth is a stacker :-? Having only recently been involved in the world of show handling, I stand Meg by using the lead as a control. First she wil be in a normal free stand then I will find a front paw that looks good, and work with the other leg to get the misaligned paw into position. The lead is operated to the opposite paw you want to move and remains tight to hold the position. after that you sort the back legs out and tilt the head depending on your breed. Not as easy as it looks I can tell you! I have certainly learned that. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 [quote]well first, I'd have to cripple her[/quote] :lol: Oh is that how those folks get their GSD's to look like that :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 [quote name='zheelah']Well I am guessing that he is a GSD (I remeber him from other posts), the GSD has a very special show stance, unlike other breeds it is supposed tohave the inner back leg (the one further away from the judge) under the body and the other streched out. First you teach your dog to stand still and alow you to mess with his legs, then you move his inner back leg (the one closer to you) a bit under the body and it is very usefull to place your foot behind it to keep him from replacing it. then you use your hand to slide the outer back leg a bit back and keep it there. Then you practise and try an keep in the stance for a longer period of time, but dont go over a couple of minutes or he will get very boared. To keep his attetnion focused forward it is usefull to place/toss a toy/tidbit in front of him and it will probabl help in keeping him still, when he is done he can get the toy or tidbit as a reward.[/quote] This is how I do it with my pups. However I don't put my foot behind their near(closest to you) leg. I want mine to learn to keep the leg there on their own rather than me having to try to keep it there with my foot. Besides, the easiest way to handle them is with you kneeling down. In which case you CAN'T put your foot there. It just takes time and practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Lol looked at the stacker, and yeah its ok, but for free standing dogs it would be a little more difficult me thinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted February 4, 2004 Author Share Posted February 4, 2004 [quote name='MajiesMom']Blitz is not a showline GSD why do you want to train him to stack?[/quote] Just want him to stack for pictures or so he can show off sometime 8) I noticed that when he's doing his business it looks sort of neat, very close to a "stack" the difference being that his back isn't naturally sloped. I've seen lots of pics of Czech/East German GSD's where they stack them but they do look a quite different. The American GSD's don't really look stretched out when they stack. There legs have the positioning mentioned above but they aren't really stretched out. Where as with Blitz if I just position his legs his back will look pretty straight. So with him the stack would be more like a stretch one where he leans forward with his chest/head and keeps his rear legs stretched out. IMHO looks way cooler than the sloped back. The dog still looks like a rocket when posing AND at the same time still has proper back. I'm not sure if what I'm talking about is trainable or up to show standards! I will try though just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 i learnd the foot behind the back leg thing from a GSD breed here when I was handeling a GSD for a friend of mine who has been breeding GSD for over 12 years, I off course want the dog to hold the stance him self but I was handeling a dog for a friend and could not do the training for the show I would have liked and do with my dogs. I do the foot thing to keep the dog still for the judge to judge him. This dog is currently one of the Icelandic police dogs [img]http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/116142.jpg[/img] Here you can see a good show stance from a female GSD that lives here. The show stance most used here are like this. The handler can also stand behind like this [img]http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/116136.jpg[/img] One question, how do you run with the GSD in the show ring, how do you get the dogs to drag with out second handling?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I hate GSDs with sloped backs, their puppies can't even [i]walk[/i]! I heard that the sloped backs are because of the GSD's "gait", that it was supposed to look like it was trotting, so they started to breed of a sloped back to make it look that way. Then breeders just took it too far and the breed was ruined. [img]http://www.eastgermanshepherd.com/amistad.jpg[/img] This poor dog, doesn't look normal at all! I'm pretty sure all dogs with backs as sloped like that have HD :( . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Zheelah, In the U.S., it really isn't "desireable" to put your foot behind the dogs leg. You NEVER see an American dog stacked with someones foot behind their leg. Though a lot of other countries don't seem to mind. Personally, I think it looks VERY tacky and to me shows a lack of training. I have NEVER had any trouble getting my dogs to stack without using my foot. As far as getting the dog to pull out on the leash, in the U.S. they DO use double handlers. (Though they are not "supposed" to according to the AKC, they do anyway. :roll: ) And, IMO it is THE most annoying thing ever. But it is easy to teach a dog to pull. (Afterall, MOST puppies would rather pull on the leash than BE pulled or stay next to the handler.) I teach mine a "command" to pull. Starting from when they are puppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 [quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'] I'm pretty sure all dogs with backs as sloped like that have HD :( .[/quote] Actually that isn't true. There are plenty of American Showline dogs that have OFA Excellent or Good hips. Just like there are plenty of those dogs that have "straight backs" that have AWEFULL hips. I too personally HATE the way the American dogs look. But the reason that they look and stand that way is NOT due to hip problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowie-the-Pooh Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 [quote name='Black GSD'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'] I'm pretty sure all dogs with backs as sloped like that have HD :( .[/quote] Actually that isn't true. There are plenty of American Showline dogs that have OFA Excellent or Good hips. Just like there are plenty of those dogs that have "straight backs" that have AWEFULL hips. I too personally HATE the way the American dogs look. But the reason that they look and stand that way is NOT due to hip problems.[/quote] Ooooh, woops! :oops: Better do my research before acting like a know-it-all, shouldn't I? :wink: I know they don't stand that way due to hip problems, though. But anyway, point is, American GSDs with extreme back slopes don't look nice at all... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 [quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'] I'm pretty sure all dogs with backs as sloped like that have HD :( .[/quote] I actually don't think rowie is 100% wrong w/ this statement. So many "breeders" in america breed for the sloped back and the looks not for the health. And I do think that is part of the reason that GSD have such a high case of HD. GDS come in only after Goldens with the highest cases of HD. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zheelah Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I do agree that it is tacky to put the foot behind the leg, and I would expect a trained showdog to stand still on command after you have laced his feet in he correct spot. I have a dobermann that I am showing to his championship (we have only one cc left) and I when I have stacked him he stands still like he is supposed to. [quote name='Black GSD']As far as getting the dog to pull out on the leash, in the U.S. they DO use double handlers. (Though they are not "supposed" to according to the AKC, they do anyway. :roll: ) And, IMO it is THE most annoying thing ever. But it is easy to teach a dog to pull. (Afterall, MOST puppies would rather pull on the leash than BE pulled or stay next to the handler.) I teach mine a "command" to pull. Starting from when they are puppies.[/quote] I have heard horror stories of the uses of double handling in the GSD show ring to get the dog to pull, it is sometimes a hazzard to stand to close to the ring because of running owners trying to get their dogs to pull their handlers :-? We cant use double handling here, and if we did it is not so lightly overlooked, I cant therefore stack my dobermann in the europe way so I use a mixture of the brittish and american (not as extravigant as the american though). I will never understand why GSD handlers dont do more of teaching their dogs to pull on command, because it is very easy :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 [quote name='StarFox'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'] I'm pretty sure all dogs with backs as sloped like that have HD :( .[/quote] I actually don't think rowie is 100% wrong w/ this statement. So many "breeders" in america breed for the sloped back and the looks not for the health. And I do think that is part of the reason that GSD have such a high case of HD. GDS come in only after Goldens with the highest cases of HD. :([/quote] However, the GSD has been known to have a higher than "normal" incidence of bad hips since WAY before the super exagerated angluation became "fashionable". AND hip problems are an issue in ALL bloodlines of the GSD not just the American show lines. And the American show lines ARE the only ones that look like that! And just look at what you just said. They come in AFTER Goldens. Goldens aren't angulated like GSD. If it was simply an issue that was caused by too much angulation, it would be easy to get rid of, and would only occur in those dogs. And that is NOT the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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