Worst day ever

[Guest Anonymous]

today was the worst day of my LIFE!!!! Cody had puppy class... and we are back to square one.. He did so great while on holiday it was GREAT and then tonight at puppyclass the old cody came back. Lee anne got a new 10 week old Neoplatina mastiff/pointer mix fromteh pound and she is goign to train it to be her service dog... WELLLLL Haven came over to say hi and smelled the treats in my purse ( which was closed adn under my seat ) and Cody knows that's where i keep my treats i've NEVER had a problem with him and dogs by my purse, with treats in my hand that is a different story ) so cody went after haven and he tore her ear!!! she was bleeding and might need stiches. well i have never felt so bad in my life i was crying so hard on lee annes shoulder scolded Cody big time for it. She said she is not upset about it, if she was she would tell me. and that it's ok we just need more work with Cody i was so upset i said he's not comming to puppy class anymore ( even though i LOVE going) and thank you for everything i'm so sorry and just let me know how much the vet bill is, and i'll pay for it. Well lee anne and the other dog trainer said dont' be silly, we love you and cody you are one of us, we dont want you or cody to leave. Really i'm not upset about it naomi, it's ok....
i'm soo upset. i'm STILL crying about it, and it happen 3 hours ago. what am i going to do??
Well i dont know if i shoudl go back to puppy class although hubby and i got a card for her already and on pay day we are going to put $150.00 in it and give it to her... help guys.. what do i do? i'm so upset and seem to have taken 10 steps BACKWARDS and not forward :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

Noami, you must feel terrible. :(

But, I think you should go back to the puppy classes. YOU couldn't prevent it at the moment, it happened and it was meant to be. As your post says, Haven's owner wasn't upset about it nor was the trainer. As long as both of them are okay you should go back. If Haven's owner really was upet, then she would tell you. I think its good that your paying the vet bills and etc.

I don't think it would be fair on Cody either if you left the classes, plus, you LOVE it! :wink: Maybe you could get a "Get Well Soon" card for Haven and owner, and sign it off with your signature and Cody's paw print. I always thought it was a cute idea! :)

*Big Bear Hug* Love ya, DAL! :D

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks Rowie .. Haven's owner IS the trainer ( lee anne ) we allready have a getwell card signed from us and Cody and the money.. but still i'm just so upset over it... i dont know. i really love going to class and lee anne is great. i just dont want her to be upset with me at all... i doint know :(

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

[quote]Well i dont know if i shoudl go back to puppy class although hubby and i got a card for her already and on pay day we are going to put $150.00 in it and give it to her... help guys.. what do i do? i'm so upset and seem to have taken 10 steps BACKWARDS and not forward[/quote]

Woops! Must have missed that part! :oops:

The cards a great idea, and I love cards! Sign it off with you and hubby's sig, and Cody's paw! I think it's an adorable idea! :)

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

[quote name='DeafAussieLover']Thanks Rowie .. Haven's owner IS the trainer ( lee anne ) we allready have a getwell card signed from us and Cody and the money.. but still i'm just so upset over it... i dont know. i really love going to class and lee anne is great. i just dont want her to be upset with me at all... i doint know :([/quote]

Most welcome DAL! :wink:

I won't tell you NOT to be upset because I know you can't help it and that I would be upset too. But what I think you should do is go back to class. Believe me after the class is over the akwardness (sp?) will be over and gone. It will all be forgiven and forgotten.

If Lee Anne is the trainer, then she will have to forgive you. She must have seen stuff like this over and over in all her years of training. Remember she is a dog trainer and she will help Cody. I don't think its fair on Cody if he doesn't go. You can both help him through this, and remember, the injury wasn't serious or life threatning.

That's funny! My trainer's named "Lil-Anne" :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks so much for the kind words Rowie. I will try and go back to class. but i will have to wait and see how i feel about it next weds.. I'll keepyou all updated. as for Cody i really need to get him in to the vet and on some prozac. Lee Anne said that would help[ take the edge of him.. It's just hard becuase she wants that dog for her service dog to help her... oh well... ahh... :(

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

[quote name='DeafAussieLover']Thanks so much for the kind words Rowie. I will try and go back to class. but i will have to wait and see how i feel about it next weds.. I'll keepyou all updated. as for Cody i really need to get him in to the vet and on some prozac. Lee Anne said that would help[ take the edge of him.. It's just hard becuase she wants that dog for her service dog to help her... oh well... ahh... :([/quote]

Most welcome hun, we're here for you! :wink:

[StarFox]

You probabaly know what I'm going to say already because I told you earlier tonight.

Your a great owner and cody is a very smart dog. You'll get threw this because you won't give up and that is the most important thing. And you know that it's not impossible for cody to be around other dogs because you have zoey. Just take your time and don't be so hard on yourself.

[ellieangel]

I think you are being too hard on yourself too,I work at a training club and I wouldn't want you to stop coming if you were in my class. :wink:

Honestly you are going to have these little setbacks now and again but you just have to plough forward and do your best for Cody.

Hugs hun xxxx

[xavierandrea]

DAL, I think you are being way to hard on yourself. Take if from me, I own 3 Rotts and it took time to train them. They can be so hard headed and forget everything you taught them in a matter of seconds. You are doing a wonderful job and don't give up. OK?

[imported_Kat]

Aww DAL, incidents do happen. You are certainly being too hard on yourself. The card is a nice idea indeed but as far as the money goes, ask Leeane if the dog actually did need veterinary treatment and ask for a bill.

As for Cody, you have come so far with him and now is not the time to pack it all in and regress. You may always have a dog that isn't 100% with other dogs. The social behaviour and skills that a dog shows up to 16 weeks will be the social behaviour that he will always portray through life. You may be able to shape that behaviour slightly into more desirable behaviour but be aware that your dog may not always be of sound temperament. In the instances where Cody is meeting a new dog he should be on his lead and you should act mildly interested in the situation, but don't get into a frenzy that he can sense, which will in turn increase his excitement levels and he will channel that excitement into uncertain aggression towards the other dog.

Stay at the classes and give me a howl if you need any behavioural help. :wink:

[drjeffrock]

Hi DAL-
I am sorry to hear what happened. :(
Don't beat yourself up over it too much. Sometimes things happen in the blink of an eye. When Dex bit my neighbor I was so upset, and choked up over it. Now, we just take it one day at a time. Some days Dex makes a lot of progress, other days he takes two steps back.
Good luck, and please let us know how Cody's training goes. Give Cody a kiss for us, he is not a bad dog! :wink:

[JudyHoffman]

I am posting this for Naomi if she cares to read and digest the information and for others who may have a similar problem with their dogs out in a training situation. Naomi, this is in no way a slant or bash at you .... let's get that straight right up front OK?

First of all, when you are out with your dog there is something called "having control of your dog". That means seeing and knowing when your dog is going to react negatively to it's surroundings. Just because a dog was good in one atmostphere does not mean it will be good in another. You need to know what triggers your dogs into a defense mode. Please note, I am not saying aggressive, I am saying a defense mode.

In my opinion, your trainer was wrong for allowing her "pound puppy" to roam around the training center and sniff in your pocketbook for treats. Her dog should also have been on leash.

If Cody was on leash, you should have, and I'm assuming you didn't since you didn't give any details, had Cody pay attention to you, put him in a sit/stay and treat him. The other dog should have been allowed to approach Cody slowly and you should have been watching for any change in Cody's body posture and language.

In this instance, both handlers were wrong and both dogs were wrong. Cody has "spacial" boundaries which you need to work on with other dogs and humans. This takes time ...... lots of it, in lots of different situations.

If you were out at a dog show, or a dog park and this happened with another dog with an owner not as understanding, you can be charged in any state in the US of not "HAVING CONTROL OF YOUR DOG" and the fines are usually quite large, ranging from $200.00 on up.

You need to work on focus/attention with Cody .... he needs to mind you 100% of the time when you are out, not when he chooses. He is determining when he is comfortable and when he is not and that is not a good thing, you, as the handler make that decision, not him.

Also, dog ears are usually not stitched. I have a dog with very long ears that have been torn either in a dog tussle or in an accident. The tear needs to be "butterfly bandaged" and wrapped around the head for a few days. Stitching is usually not done to the ear. The $150 is excessive ... perhaps you can offer to pay for the vet visit and antibiotics if any are needed, which I doubt.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you everyone for you replys! I'm still beating my self up about this, but have come to the conclusion Cody should not be in a puppy class. I posted this same story on the Aussie Board that i'm on, and they all said the same thing. That not very many dogs can handle puppies, as they are obnoxious. So with that i feel a little better, and after thinking about it i realized that when we were at the doggy park in Arizona and he was having a blast with all the dogs for 2 hours, there were NO puppies. So i am going to ask lee anne if she has any classes with adult dogs. I think also the problem is that Lee Anne has ALWAYS favored COdy, everyone in petsmart loves cody, and knows about " Cody the Deaf dog". Let me go in to more detail..

Normally we go to class about 30 mins early to chat with lee anne ( as we are freinds) and she can see Cody and spend time with him. He loves her and gets all exctied as soon as we pull in to the parking lot of petsmart. She normally loves on him, plays with him and all that good stuff. Well last night she just went up and patted him for a few mins and kinda went off and did her own thing. Not really spending any time with Cody like she did in the pass. And I KNOW that Cody sensed this as he was a little "off" during class , trying to get her attention sitting right in front of her.. He was a little upset about that last night and kept real close to me, where as int he past he was with me during training but any chance he got when we were not doing anything he would run up and sit by lee anne and she would make him work.

She was interested in all the dogs last ngiht, but more so her dog and i understand that she wants HAven for her service dog and all that stuff, but i dont agree with how she was last night with Haven and Cody.
After the first incident i do not think that Haven shoudl have been out of her Kennel at all, let alone off leash, since she knew what happend last time.
When Haven came up to me i DID have Cody in a sit stay, but as we all know ( except for jeff and i'll clue you in right now. Cody is Deaf and has vision problems, and has his own little Bubble and if you go in it, he'll go for you ) Cody has his little bubble, and his vission problems, and Lee anne was NOT paying attention to Haven at all and i had Cody in a sit stay she went for my pursewhich was under the chair and came out the otherside by Cody and that is when he went for her.
Judy i read what you wrote but it hought that we came to an understanding that you would NOT post to any of my posts and i would not post to yours. that said please dont post, becuase nomatter what you say i take it as a blow to me.
I did have control of Cody it was Haven'f fault not Cody's. Lee Anne knows ALL ABOUT cody and his bubble, his vision, his deafness. She talks about it all the time in puppy class, how Cody has his own bubble and to make sure the dogs dont go in it. But like i said before i'm guessing i need to get him out of the puppy class. And we are goign to start Paying for hte classes wheater she will let us do it or not.
So i will let you all know what happens. i dont think i'll go back to puppy class but i will TRY To get a class that is taught by lee anne that has adult dogs in it. The only thing is we've tried int eh past and there is not many interestes in the Adult classes, mostly puppy classes. *sigh*

[JudyHoffman]

[quote]I am posting this for Naomi [b]if she cares to read[/b] and digest the information and for others who may have a similar problem with their dogs out in a training situation. [/quote]

Then perhaps "OTHERS" [quote]for others who may have a similar problem with their dogs out in a training situation. [/quote] will benefit.

I wasn't responding to 'YOU', I was responding to the problem for anyone else who may have similar problems as you are having.

Get a new trainer and get Cody used to puppies. He will encounter them for the rest of his life. Perhaps a training instructor who specializes in deaf dogs with vision problems might help.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote]Get a new trainer and get Cody used to puppies. He will encounter them for the rest of his life. Perhaps a training instructor who specializes in deaf dogs with vision problems might help.[/quote]

I am not going to get him sued to puppies, he obveouldy does not like them and everyone on my aussie board ( whom i value truly their opinons) said he shoudl not be in a puppy class and not many dogs do tolerate puppies. so i will get him in to a class with adult dogs with Lee Anne, as i've looked in our area for a dog trainer that works with deaf dogs and haven't been able to find one.

[JudyHoffman]

I'm sure you're doing the best you can for Cody. Keep up the training and things should turn around if you are a consistent and benevolent leader who sets realistic goals for the dog.

[kendalyn]

Buck doesn't like puppies either. He has never hurt one but he generally ignores them and would prefer they not try to "play" with him. He gets very edgy and I do believe that if he did not have a way out and a puppy was constantly pestering him, he would retaliate.

Maybe I'm wrong here but I liken it to sending a 5 year old to play with an infant. Puppies don't behave like dogs and don't have the same social skills and for some reason, Buck won't tolerate them. I don't see a pressing need to "fix" this behavior because he is almost always around adult dogs (and does fine with them) and if there are puppies around I will make sure they are not bothering him. I guess I don't see a need to fix every behavioral quirk.

Good luck on finding a new class for Cody DAL! Your trainer knows Cody's history well enough to know the risks of having her dog running around off leash around him.

[courtnek]

DAL, sweetie, listen to me please.

I know you like Leeanne, and she is helping with Cody alot, but these are the facts in the world of pack order....

[quote]Maybe I'm wrong here but I liken it to sending a 5 year old to play with an infant. Puppies don't behave like dogs and don't have the same social skills and for some reason, Buck won't tolerate them.[/quote]

In a pack society, and especially in Cody's case since he cant hear at all or see real well, an adult dog will punish a puppy for an infraction. In Cody's case, he couldnt "see" or hear it coming. All of a sudden there is
a puppy there, trying to get HIS treats, and his instincts took over. He punished the puppy for breaking the pack rules. In a dog that can see and hear, the puppy would have been warned off, most likely by it's mother. Since Cody cant hear, or see well, it wasnt until the puppy had already broken the rules that he reacted. Puppies are given food by their mothers and other female members of the pack. They are not allowed
to gorge on the kill (if they are old enough to do that) until a certain level of maturity has been achieved. Even then, once mom isnt feeding them
anymore, they are generally bottom of the pile at feeding times.

The puppy should not have been loose, and Leeanne should have known that. Cody was not being vicious, just following his inner nature. Food is one of the biggest reason for dog aggression - people dont understand
that it transcends training when it involves other dogs. WE should always be able to take their food, we are Alpha. Another dog, no they wont go there. Haven's "alpha" should have prevented him from approaching.

Hang in there Girl...get him in adult classes since puppies bother him.
but understand that even though he is deaf, and partially blind, pack rules still, well, rule.

:fadein: :fadein:

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks Courtnek! I know that Haven should not have been allowed off her lead or out of her kennel. i dont know why lee anne did that. but i understand why cody did it. i mean lee anne knows that cody has food aggression and all that stuff. i there was alot of change for cody last night also, not getting NEARLY as much attention from Lee Anne has he had previously. :( and that is sad for him, for he really likes her. but i am going to get him in to adult classes!

[courtnek]

In Cody's case, his food aggression may actually be caused by his hearing and vision problems. Consider a pack member who cant hear or see well...
he cant see another animal coming to steal his food, or hear them. He can smell them, that's all. So he becomes more protective of his food because he has to. He doesnt get the early warning signals of sight and sound.
If he wasnt more protective, he might starve. While Cody is not going to starve, HE doesnt know that. He only knows what you have taught him, and what his instincts tell him to do. In a real pack, he might actually be killed for his infirmities, since he could not service the pack in that condition. So he is a little more touchy than the average dog. Try to consider that in his training, and realize he knows instinctively he is at a
disadvantage here. I'll help you any way I can, you know that.

:fadein: :fadein:

[pei obssessed]

[quote name='courtnek'] Food is one of the biggest reason for dog aggression - people dont understand
that it transcends training when it involves other dogs. WE should always be able to take their food, we are Alpha. Another dog, no they wont go there.[/quote]
Courtnek, I wanna thank you for clearing this up for me: I never understood why any human can take food from Hippo (which is good, we've trained her for that :D ), but when she is around other dogs who are getting treats at the dog park, she's going after them causing trouble. She's not causing fights, but she growls at other dogs. I wasn't too worried about it because I don't think people should be feeding all the dogs at the park anyway and I'm always telling everybody not to feed Hippo, so all I have to do is call her and treat her for coming... but I was curious why she's so pushy when dogs are involved, and so submissive when humans take her food.
Sorry for the digression from DAL's problems, I just wanted to say thanks for clearing up my questions :angel:

[mouseatthebusstop]

it's not your fault you could not have stopped it ((((huggs)))) for you

[courtnek]

[quote]but I was curious why she's so pushy when dogs are involved, and so submissive when humans take her food.
Sorry for the digression from DAL's problems, I just wanted to say thanks for clearing up my questions
[/quote]

lack of food, instinctively, is a driven in their instincts. By nature, if they dont eat, they die. Its why the whole pack society was formed. It is why they decided to work together, form family groups, protect and care for each other. It is what made them bond to us. WE provided them food and shelter, they survived longer under our care. They decided to join us, since it served our mutual interests......

We fed them, sheltered them, gave them the warmth of our fires and tribal living, in return, they protected us and warned us of danger,
followed us and set up camp with us. It was better for them and us.
they ate better, we lived with less fear. That was the beginning of our relationsip with the dog, the wolf. But the instincts are still there, with or without us. They never lost the pack traits that made us accept them, and them us. The pack traits protected us. The pack traits helped them survive.

helped US survive, too...

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you everyone! I called Lee Anne alittle bit ago , just to check up on Haven, and she said that she is fine, and after they got it to stop bleeding it looks as thought Cody just ripped the skin, no hole or tare. so that is good. she said she's ok and she is not worried about it she just put pressure and then antibiotic ointment on it, and today Haven is acting fine, like nothing happend . so i feel a little bit better :) plus all that you guys have said helped me too!!