pit bull attack in central Fl

[vstardragon]

This really ticks me off!!! Over the weekend a 2 year old girl was "attacked" by a pitbull. Appearantly the child was playing with the dogs food while he was eating and the pitbull bit her in the face. And now they are most likely gonig to put the pitty to sleep.....what kind of crap is that!!!!!!!!!!!! Unbelievable....1) the dog was territorial and the baby shouldn't have been near him while he was eating. 2) where the heck where the parents at and why weren't they watching their child!!!!! Ummmm....hello....do parents not have to accept any responsibility for anything any more....i am a parent of 2 children and own a pit and am ALWAYS keeping track of them when they are loose in my house. I would never let my kids be unsupervised with my dog.....or ANY dog. I say put the pit up for adoption since these people obviously don't deserve to own a dog, put the child in foster care and put the parents in jail for child neglect! Why is it that you have to be licensed to cut peoples hair, but you don't need a license to have kids!...really there should be some sort of application or license needed for certain people to be able to reproduce!

[Guest Anonymous]

Here's the an article about the attack...

Pit Bull Bites Girl's Lip Off

POSTED: 11:58 a.m. EDT October 6, 2003
UPDATED: 12:20 p.m. EDT October 6, 2003

An Orange County, Fla., girl is recovering after a pit bull bit her lip off over the weekend, according to Local 6 News.

Authorities rushed the unidentified girl to a hospital after she was attacked by the dog in the Sutton Ridge subdivision Saturday.

She was playing at a neighbor's home and attempted to pet the dog when she was bitten in the face, according to witnesses.

"She kept petting the dog while he was eating and you don't pet any dog whether it's a pit bull or nothing -- it will bite," witness Xavier Villanueva said.

The girl's father told Local 6 News that his daughter's lip was torn off during the attack.

Orange County animal control officers removed the dog from the neighborhood, according to the report.

Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.


I totally agree with you VD, where were the parents? Why did no one stop the child? This type of bite happens a lot too, yet when its another breed it is not reported..that also makes me a bit upset. This was completely preventable. And I agree that the dog should be put up for adoption, however a Pit bull (any dog really) with a bite history is a lot harder to place. Even if the bite was provoked. It's a loose/loose situation. But we can hope something good will come out of it..like the people will teach their kid some dog safety manners..and the dog will be placed into another home!

[vstardragon]

Thanks Pouty Pit for posting the article..i was just going off memory from what i heard off the TV while making breakfast, anyways...it is a shame that pits get all the media attention while people are bit all the time by other breeds, also a shame that happened to the little girl...maybe the police should investigate the parents and the neighbors and share with the public why the little girl was unsupervised with a dog in the first place.

[Sanvean]

I feel for the child and the dog. It reminds me of the case where a toddler hugged his grandmother's pit bull after it growled at him in an attempt to "make up" with the dog -- who then attacked him. WHAT are people thinking???

[JudyHoffman]

I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, but my opinion is the fault lies with the dog owner, not the child and not the child's parents.

I currently have 9 dogs in my house and my 3 year old can take any food bowl away, pet any dogs while eating and remove any bone from their mouths.

I certainly don't encourage it, but my dogs are all taught that a human can in fact remove food, bones, toys or anything from their mouths and it's ok. I've yet to have any sort of aggression issues with the canine/human interaction with my kids.

Dogs of all breeds need to understand that it's OK for humans to do whatever they want to them while eating. If your dog has an issue, it should eat in the crate or be kept safe from humans or toddlers while eating/chewing a bone.

[JudyHoffman]

I guess K, and I'm not disagreeing with you either, human well-being comes before an animal.

Hey, I've seen kids abuse dogs ...... I have 3 neighbor kids that are like that .....

If I am ever unsure of my kids friends with animals, the animals get put away for their "safety" .... they look to me to keep them safe. Obviously I can't tell my daughter not to have her friends over, but I can put my dogs away where they are safe from children that are afraid of dogs.

For me it works ..... everyone is happy, the kids, the friends and the dogs.

So saying that, it is the dog owners responsibility to know their dog and know if the dog is "stable" or "unstable" with someone around it's food or with someone petting it.

That dog bit a child ......... it's the dog owners fault. The child's parents should also teach their child respect of animals, but let me tell you, there is no way in hell a 2 year old will understand that concept unless it's been around animals from the day it's bought home, like mine have.

Here's a picture of kids and 3 of my pups.

[img]http://a2.cpimg.com/image/8A/78/24327562-6502-0200016A-.jpg[/img]

The point to this picture is that kids are with my dogs/puppies all the time. Belgians are not easy dogs and are aloof at best. Do these puppies look aloof? To me they look comfortable and relaxed .... they have been highly socialized to children ..... even as young as 2 - 3 years old and they know to go to their crates if the children are "harrassing them" as do the older dogs. No dog is my house is ever ever disturbed while in their crates. If a kid disturbs a dog in the crate, the kid is punished or asked to leave my house. Fortunately, all the kids that come thru my house know the rules ahead of time.

Kids are with my dogs/puppies from day one ...... they are asked by me to pull the tail, pinch the toes and tug on ears under my supervision. I ask the kids to take food out of their mouths etc. I try to nip most problems in the bud so to speak.

Sadly, most parents don't feel that it is necessary to teach children how to behave around animals ....... which is why most dog bites happen in the first place.

[JudyHoffman]

Dog Lover,

Haven't you ever seen a dog attack something or somebody with no audible growl? Sometimes it's so low and so deep only another dog can hear it.

I always watch the body language ........ my dog, when provoked will, I know attack something so quickly and so fast and never make a sound.

After she had her puppies, no other dog would go within 10 feet of her, she was so protective of her puppies and I would be sitting right there, right by her aside the whelping box and could hear no growling, but if I put my hand on her chest I could feel it.

A dog can in fact growl so low that only another dog can hear it. Unfortunately that doesn't help us humans who don't have hearing as keen as a canine. :-?

[ellieangel]

The real victims here are the child and the dog and both the dog owner and the parent must take responsibility here.

Both of my dogs are fine around food with my kids but having said that I don't take any risks either,if they have a friend round for tea I will always shut the dogs out while the kids are eating,just common sense to me.

[JudyHoffman]

Absolutely! Dogs and common sense should go hand in hand! Well said.

[JudyHoffman]

You can call me Judy ........

Reading a dog is difficult even for those of us who know how to read our dogs language.

It's a lesson learned for both the child and the parents and hopefully the owners of the dog. Too bad its such a hard lesson and a lifetime of scars will be left on that child, physically and mentally.

[Guest Anonymous]

While I do agree some what with you Judy, that the dog's owner is at fault. I also think that the parents of the child are at fault as well. In this day and age, with so many different breeds of dogs, with all different temperments and socal skills...you HAVE to safe guard your OWN kids with dogs. They HAVE to know to not approach a dog (I think strange or otherwise, just to be safe) when it is eating, has puppies, toys or treats. If it's without it's owner don't pet or approach it, and so on.

Plus we cannot rely on other dog owners to have the same training or socalizing methods or thoughts that we do. We cannot hope that their do will behave and no better then to bite a child for bugging it while it's eating. The only thing you can directly control are your kids. If you cant know for sure if that dog nextdoor is friendly all the time, in every situation...you should and can know your kids will know better, then to place themselves in a dangerous situation with that dog. If they are not old enough to know better, then you are and should be there. I mean you as a general you..:)



I also think that these so called witnesses are to blame also, that one person was quoting as saying she KNEW what the child was doing was wrong...but didnt stop it.

I think the dog's owner should have also known better, on less this was one of those times where the dog had never done that before. There really isn't enough information to go on. It doesn't even say if the owner was even there.

It really tragic that it has happened, and your right the poor child will have scars, emotional and other wise. But it was preventable, and the dog should not have to pay because of it. Food aggression is workable, and shouldn't be punished by death.

[atghylin]

Question... How do you know that ALL people who have never learned to read an animal cannot do so?

I only ask because I watched my husband, who had not grown up with animals, react quickly to prevent a bite to our oldest son, Kristopher. Kristopher was trying to become freindly with Felix when we first got him but the dog would have none of it and was trying to let the kid know by growling and backing up into a corner. (Felix had not quite settled in and become comfortable yet and Kristopher can be a bit overwelming.) Kristopher has a hard time backing off (we go round and round with him about this problem constantly) and wouldn't stop. After being told to back off, Kristopher did not and my husband smacked the kid lightly on the rump and then lectured him on not listening to either my husband or the dog. Seems to me my husband knew how to read the dog's body laguage just fine.

Hubby and I have an agreement on the issue of bites during mealtime... Kristopher is told to leave the dog alone and Kurtis, my 11 month old, is put in his playpen to prevent bites. BUT if Kristopher chooses NOT to listen and gets bit it's his fualt not the dog's... he was warned after all. We do not hold the dog at fault for something the kid has started. Animals and children are supervisized all the time. I know where each of them are and what they are doing... even when I'm here on Dogo. If I don't I go find out imediatetly(sp?)

In this article both owners and parents are to blame. The owners for not noticing and correcting a bad situation before it became worse. The parents for not supervising and pulling the child away from the dog with a reprimand. The dog cannot be faulted for humans' lack of a sense of responsibilty. Unfortunately, the dog will become a scapegoat for this unfortunate situation.

[courtnek]

Actually, I agree with both sides of the story, but I lean towards the dog owner being wrong in this instance.

yes, Dogs should always be trained to allow a person to take their food away. This dog may have been, for all we know, however, this child was not a member of his family, was probably at eye level with him (threat level, as K said) and the dog was eating. Food aggression, while never
excusable, is also not uncommon.

Perhaps the owners never had a reason to take the dogs food away, so
it never got trained to allow anyone to do that. My dogs will let me take their food, because I make a point of doing it to show them who's boss....
but some people (most people in fact) just put the food down and walk
away.

Secondly, although the child belonged to the neighbor, if you have someone elses child in your house YOU are responsible for the
childs welfare. And anyone who owns a dog should know you dont
let a child, or anyone else, bother it while it's eating unless you
know FOR A FACT that the dog will not react to it.

This dog was probably fine with this child except for the food incident.
Way too many children are bitten and mauled in food incidents, because
they cant read a dogs body language and dont know any better.
(In all honesty, most adults cant either)

So I err on the side of the owners. If you are watching someone elses
child, or allowing it to play in your house, it is YOUR responsibility
to make sure there is not a child/dog conflict.

[Sanvean]

I think the blame lies equally with the parents and the pet owner.

First, if I had a small child, I would NOT let it play at a neighbor's without me there unless I trusted that neigbor implicitly, especially if that neighbor had pets.

Second, if I had a food-aggressive dog, I would work with it. And if my work was not successful, I would certainly NOT let a small child around the dog while it was eating.

[courtnek]

Sanvean, I agree with you completely. My point was that the dog owners may not have been aware of a food aggression issue, if they have never tried to remove food while the dog was eating. Most people dont.

I still stand on the belief that if you have someone else's child in your house, its YOUR responsibility to make sure nothing bad happens to the child, within your capabilities. And anyone with a dog should know you dont let a child jack with it while it's eating...no matter how well its trained or how gentle it seems...

[Malamum]

It

[JudyHoffman]

These are my opinions about several issues that were bought up.

As a responsible dog breeder, at least I try to be, I tell all of my buyers that they must touch the dogs mouth and look at the teeth at least 3 times a day. They should remove bones, food and toys from the dogs mouth all the time, giving high praise/treats for the dog allowing this. If not, corrections should be given thru positive methods. This is not rocket science folks ..... this is part of owning and training a dog. These things come first before sitting/staying/coming etc. They dog needs to be agreeable to human interference whether it be eating or chewing a bone.

Reading dog behavior ........ this is a hard one. Ears and tail say a lot. But if you have a dog that is without a tail then you need to learn it's other signals. I notice a lot by the eyes, when my dogs are upset or something is "wrong" they're eyes get very sharp and bright.

Body posture is always a tell tale sign of what is about happen. My general rule of thumb is if the dog is already in the throes of barking/growling/showing teeth it is too late to do much, except remove the dog from the offending situation.

Dogs give many signals thru their body posture ...... normally at least 2 - 5 minutes before any altercation.

Reading dog behavior and removing items from the dogs mouth is part of training and being a responsible owner. It also assesses any behaviorial issues at a very young age.

If you can't read your dog's language and if you don't teach it bite inhibition then you will always be on alert when someone is around your dog or you are walking your dog. I do not believe that children or adults should remove food from a dog while it is eating. But if the situation arises, it should be able to be done without a problem irregardless of who does it.

Being alert and nervous holding a leash will only travel down the leash to the dog.

[JudyHoffman]

atgylin .....

From what you describe I do not think your husband was reading Felix correctly.

A dog that backs into a corner and shows aggression is showing fear aggression I believe. If he was "warning" your child he would have stood his ground and not backed away.

Fear aggression (and I use the term aggression loosely as I'm not so sure this is a case of aggression) is not a good thing.

What I would have done in that case is I would have asked my child to sit on the floor with a treat (I would be holding a treat also) and kindly and compassionately and with a happy voice and face call the dog to come coaxing him with a treat.

By removing your child from him, you have in fact reinforced and told him that when he behaves that way, he gets what he wants, which was the removal of your child from his space. Felix needs to learn that your child is "higher" in the pack than Felix is ...... by punishing your child and giving Felix what he wants, you are teaching Felix that he is more important than the child. This is never the case in human - canine interaction, irregardless of the age of the human.

You need to work on his "space" issue (all puppies have this).

[Rosebud]

While I agree with K, Courtnek & Judy, I do believe that blame should be laid on the dog owner who stated to the news media that the kid kept petting the dog while it was eating, this owner obviously knew the dog didn't like it and should have corrected the dog & sent the child home or separated them before the dog bit.


[quote name='JudyHoffman'][size=2]Kids are with my dogs/puppies from day one ...... they are asked by me to pull the tail, pinch the toes and tug on ears under my supervision. I ask the kids to take food out of their mouths etc. I try to nip most problems in the bud so to speak.

Sadly, most parents don't feel that it is necessary to teach children how to behave around animals ....... which is why most dog bites happen in the first place.[/size][/quote]

[quote name='JudyHoffman']
[size=2]These are my opinions about several issues that were bought up.

As a responsible dog breeder, at least I try to be, I tell all of my buyers that they must touch the dogs mouth and look at the teeth at least 3 times a day. They should remove bones, food and toys from the dogs mouth all the time, giving high praise/treats for the dog allowing this. If not, corrections should be given thru positive methods. This is not rocket science folks ..... this is part of owning and training a dog. These things come first before sitting/staying/coming etc. They dog needs to be agreeable to human interference whether it be eating or chewing a bone.

Reading dog behavior ........ this is a hard one. Ears and tail say a lot. But if you have a dog that is without a tail then you need to learn it's other signals. I notice a lot by the eyes, when my dogs are upset or something is "wrong" they're eyes get very sharp and bright.

Body posture is always a tell tale sign of what is about happen. My general rule of thumb is if the dog is already in the throes of barking/growling/showing teeth it is too late to do much, except remove the dog from the offending situation.

Dogs give many signals thru their body posture ...... normally at least 2 - 5 minutes before any altercation.

Reading dog behavior and removing items from the dogs mouth is part of training and being a responsible owner. It also assesses any behaviorial issues at a very young age.

If you can't read your dog's language and if you don't teach it bite inhibition then you will always be on alert when someone is around your dog or you are walking your dog. I do not believe that children or adults should remove food from a dog while it is eating. But if the situation arises, it should be able to be done without a problem irregardless of who does it.

Being alert and nervous holding a leash will only travel down the leash to the dog.[/size][/quote]

Judy this is the type of training that truly responsible breeders do, unfortunately the average "joe" does not purchase a pup from them, they buy from BYB's.

I started training Sally & Rocket at 8-10 weeks old that it didn't matter what I wanted to do I could. I can stick my hand down their throat to retrieve an item they are not supposed to be eating. I will not own a dog that I or anyone else in my household cannot take food away from.

I have already had to use this to take things that could harm them away, I have also been in a situation where I could not get to Rocket so I gave him the command to "drop it" and told my friends 10 year old boy to take it away from Rocket, Rocket just pouted like he was saying "bummer, even he can take it away from me". I have also under close supervision had another friends 4 year old daughter tell Rocket and Sally to give her what they had at her command, reinforced by me to teach them to listen to even children that young, I however will not let a child physically "take" something away from them, dogs know that the child does not have the strength to inforce there command and it's my responsibility to teach the dog to respect that child's command.

:angel:

[JudyHoffman]

[quote]unfortunately the average "joe" does not purchase a pup from them, they buy from BYB's.[/quote]

and because of this very simple fact, there will always be dogs that maul/attack children and adults. We can place blame on the dog, the kid, the kids parents or the dog owners, but realistically most people buy a dog having no clue what to do with it or how to do it or want to spend the time or money doing it. The "IT" I am referring to is quite basic, training and socializing.

Let's face it, most of us won't have Champion Dogs in most venues, but I do expect to have a well mannered, well behaved dog that I am happy to take along with me wherever I go and with each new dog comes new learning for me. There is nothing that a dog can't teach me ......

It's really a sad state of things when it all comes down to this, don't you think? :(

[Rosebud]

:-?

I agree, until we can educate everyone about the need for formal training and get people to understand the importance of choosing a breed that is compatible with their whole household we will always be fighting the battle against irresponsible breeders/owners, puppy mills and BYB's.


[quote name='JudyHoffman'][quote]unfortunately the average "joe" does not purchase a pup from them, they buy from BYB's.[/quote]

and because of this very simple fact, there will always be dogs that maul/attack children and adults. We can place blame on the dog, the kid, the kids parents or the dog owners, but realistically most people buy a dog having no clue what to do with it or how to do it or want to spend the time or money doing it. The "IT" I am referring to is quite basic, training and socializing.

[b]Let's face it, most of us won't have Champion Dogs in most venues, but I do expect to have a well mannered, well behaved dog that I am happy to take along with me wherever I go and with each new dog comes new learning for me. There is nothing that a dog can't teach me ...... [/b]
[color=red]I completely agree.[/color]

It's really a sad state of things when it all comes down to this, don't you think? :([/quote]

:angel:

[courtnek]

[quote]While I agree with K, Courtnek & Judy, I do believe that blame should be laid on the dog owner who stated to the news media that the kid kept petting the dog while it was eating, this owner obviously knew the dog didn't like it and should have corrected the dog & sent the child home or separated them before the dog bit.
[/quote]

OK I'm confused...isnt that what I said??? :lol: :lol: :lol: (it's been a LONG workweek already...)

I agree that the dog owner is to blame, MOSTLY, for this incident, although I, as a parent, would not allow my child to play at the neighbors unless I knew what was going on, and especially not if I didnt think they had good control of their dog. The dog owner needs to take responsiblility for what his/her dog does, just like parents need to take responsibility for what their children do. Even with the BEST trained and controlled dog, I still WOULD NOT let a small child interfere with it's eating unless I was right there the whole time, and ONLY if it was for some kind of training. Even then, the dog would be on a lead and the child would be outside of snapping distance....

As dog owners, we have to make sure our animals dont end up hurting someone else because we were too busy, too distracted, or too unknowing to have intervened and corrected the situation...

[Rosebud]

:D

[quote name='courtnek'][quote]While I agree with K, Courtnek & Judy, I do believe that blame should be laid on the dog owner who stated to the news media that the kid kept petting the dog while it was eating, this owner obviously knew the dog didn't like it and should have corrected the dog & sent the child home or separated them before the dog bit.
[/quote]

OK I'm confused...isnt that what I said??? :lol: :lol: :lol: (it's been a LONG workweek already...)

...[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry for confusing your Courtnek, I was just mentioning posts I agreed with and putting my own 2 cents in.

:angel:

[Shannon_C]

[color=darkred]The safest solution to prevent any dog (no matter what breed) is to not allow children to take there food off them or interfer when the dog is eating.....no matter how friendly the dog is they will still turn, usually they give a warning like a growl and if that doesn't work there only other is with there teeth. How stupid can some people be....you might has well let the child pull its tail[/color] :x