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APBT...absolute empirical evidence that genetics don't ...


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Guest Anonymous

[quote]Must be a bunch of teenagers manipulating this board or morons.[/quote]

Wow. :o
OKay, now there's a difference between having fun and being immature... we... were having FUN... that... right there, that I quoted, that was immature.
And HEY! I AM a teenager! there's nothing wrong with that!!!! :evil: grrr :drinking:

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OK Guest - that was uncalled for. We have a LOT of teenagers on this board who are very mature, responsible, and good dog handlers.

Age is not an indication of maturity. My ex is 47 years old and never grew up....

Please be aware that age does not determine maturity - in ANY of us...

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Hm, do I want to be a teenager or a moron? Well, I'm too old to get away with the teenager gig so I guess I must be a [color=red][size=6]MORON![/size][/color]
Why yes, it has been a lifelong dream of mine, how did you know?

MORONS UNTIE!
er
MORONS UNITE! :P

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Guest Anonymous

[quote name='Carolk9s']
MORONS UNTIE!
er
MORONS UNITE! :P[/quote]

LMFAO :lol: :lol: Carol! You made me spit my salad out!! :lol: :lol:

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[quote]Dog Aggressive American Pitbull Terriers should be "MUZZLED." Actually some of the owner should have one too![/quote]
Well, if that's not an outright statement of breed bias, then I don't know what is. Never did you make mention of what should be done to control the two maneating, dog attacking, cat killing dogs next door, who are FAR more of a threat than my well behaved, well controlled, albeit dog aggressive pit bulls. Nor did you make any mention of how our horribly dog aggressive dachshund should be muzzled and locked away for life. Sounds to me like you're yet another victim of the media yourself, guest/pitbull fan/big guest/hollywood/whoever you are. I'm guessing that the thought of actually having to be RESPONSIBLE in the care/ownership of your dogs is such a horrible thought for you that you can't stand the thought of it, and have convinced yourself that it will (and couldn't) ever happen to you. Perhaps instead of a pit bull, you should suit yourself up with some less controversial "pets". One of these might do... [url]http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Cactaceae/Ferocactus_latispinus.html[/url] :lol:

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[quote name='Anonymous']Must be a bunch of teenagers manipulating this board or morons.[/quote]

I'm a teenager. I have a very energetic Golden, that I KNOW how to handle. Most of my time is spent reading up on dogs. learning more about them. In my short teenager life I have owned 2 dogs with "issues". And guess what? both of them turned out fine. Pretty good for a teenager, eh?

Actually, lots of people from this board are teenagers. Hey, Icyshiver is. She has like what, 9 dogs? :o All of them are rescued and well trained. HazelNutMeg is a teenager. She has Coal. She's really responsible too. Abker is a teenager, she has 2 dogs. She is great with them. Holz_Boomer has 2 dogs also, no problems there.

If you think we're some kind of drunk addicts that get high, have guns or whatever. Think again! We are all mature, responsible TEENAGERS that have dogs and there is nothing wrong with that. I have never read any rule that said teenagers can't have dogs or join boards? :-?

And all you can do, Guest, it Bull Fan, whatever, is insult. While we all give EVIDENCE of what we believe in. We don't insult or be rude or anything.

[b]SO WHO'S THE TEENAGER (MORON) NOW?????[/b]

In your face! :lol:

(Sorry people, I jsut really hate it when people say teenagers can't be people too. We are never taken seriously! We already have enough problems! :roll:)

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[quote]Now THAT was harsh. So we had a LITTLE bit of fun. So SUE us! I have a sense of humor. Sorry to IMPOSE it on you. Now time for me to be serious because I guess that's the only thing you understand. Just because some of the people on this board are teens or younger DOES NOT MEAN they are immature. And just because we have senses of humor DOES NOT MAKE US MORONS! I talk to A LOT of them on MSN and I know they are VERY MATURE and INTELLIGENT people. YOU are the immature one telling everyone on the board that only YOU are right and that no one else is. And the word insultive...let's not even get into that....[/quote]


[quote]I'm a teenager. I have a very energetic Golden, that I KNOW how to handle. Most of my time is spent reading up on dogs. learning more about them. In my short teenager life I have owned 2 dogs with "issues". And guess what? both of them turned out fine. Pretty good for a teenager, eh?

Actually, lots of people from this board are teenagers. Hey, Icyshiver is. She has like what, 9 dogs? All of them are rescued and well trained. HazelNutMeg is a teenager. She has Coal. She's really responsible too. Abker is a teenager, she has 2 dogs. She is great with them. Holz_Boomer has 2 dogs also, no problems there.

If you think we're some kind of drunk addicts that get high, have guns or whatever. Think again! We are all mature, responsible TEENAGERS that have dogs and there is nothing wrong with that. I have never read any rule that said teenagers can't have dogs or join boards?

And all you can do, Guest, it Bull Fan, whatever, is insult. While we all give EVIDENCE of what we believe in. We don't insult or be rude or anything.

SO WHO'S THE TEENAGER (MORON) NOW?????

In your face!

(Sorry people, I jsut really hate it when people say teenagers can't be people too. We are never taken seriously! We already have enough problems! ) [/quote]


Go Rowie Go Rowie, Go Dog Lover Go Dog Lover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :calus: U all are great! *Claps hands* Rowie, I totally agree, teens are almost never taken seriously, we are totally streo-typed. The dog message boards I go to are so cool because no one treats us different because we're young. I love ya'll!!!!!!!! :calus: :loveu:

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[quote]Ok you guys...quit messing about...guest (whoever) is obviously on the lookout for so much more from us...so here goes....



Applying a thought of a person to the thought of another person/being.
We cannot know with certainty what goes on in the head of another
person. Even so we behave as if we know with certainty what others
are thinking. All of us have tremendous circumstantial data about the
thoughts of others. Given this, there's no reason why we can't rely
on similar circumstantial evidence for the purpose of gauging the
thoughts and feelings of animals of different species. Of course the
information we have concerning them is much more restricted in
comparison with all that is known to us about normal adult human
beings, yet we already have a large body of knowledge which enables
us to make a number of assumptions with a good degree of certainty,
no less than any other assumptions that we can make concerning the
awareness of human beings. This information is sufficient only if we
use all the following rules and not just one or two of them.

Rule One: Testing the body. We have a great deal of information about
the structure and function of the nervous system of different
animals. Many species, particularly vertebrates, ( Pit Bulls amongst
them) have a nervous system which resembles that of ours - from the
sensory cells at the tips of our limbs all the way to our brains.
Their nervous systems respond to the environment in a manner very
similar to the responses of human beings, on the level of the
function of specific chemicals in the body, of cells or of whole
networks. It's reasonable to assume that there is a similarity
between anything occurring in our nervous systems and that of other
species; accompanied by a similarity in states of mind connected to
these states (This is not an invitation to do experiments on animals!
It is absurd to do experiments on animals in order to prove in the
end that experimentation on them is a bad thing!)

Rule Two: Observing behavior. Since our behavior testifies to our
state of mind and our thoughts it is reasonable to assume that
specific behaviors of different animals testify to feelings and
thoughts, to pain, to fear, to anxiety. These all express themselves
in behavior (flight (or fight),shaking,distress cries,salivating,sweating the list is endless....) We can also learn/distinguish a pattern of
preferred behavior (for example, when an animal has several options
it will take one of them as a matter of course and we can assume that the Pit will chose the fight option based on our previous knowledge and interaction with this species). In the case of
complex social animals (inclusive of primates and canines) the facial and bodily signals exchanged between them add an
additional factor to our evidence of 'what goes on in their heads'.

Rule Three: Remarks based on evolution. The great similarity between
us and other species is not accidental. We can assume that we have
developed from early common ancestors, and therefore the function of
our nervous systems cannot be arbitrarily different from the function
of the nervous systems of other animals. The evolutionary framework
demands even more than this: any characteristic that we identify in
any animal developed by a process of natural selection, that is to
say, it must have an advantage for survival. For example, mental
complexity is an advantage for an animal that lives many years and
exists in a society, but not for creatures that hatch in adult form
and live for only one day.

What is the outcome of all this? First of all, we see that skeptical
statements of the sort "We don't know what goes on in the heads of
Pit Bulls" has no practical relevance since we have the same doubts
about people. Secondly, in order to know something about 'what
goes on in the head' of any animal it's not enough to rely on small
and limited information. We have behavioral data and physiological data
but these are not enough in order to seriously appreciate "what goes on
in their head." In order to protect the rights of these animals
we need to know a great deal of data of all types and it is clear that this important data clearly exists.whether or not people choose to accept this data is up to the individual.[/quote]

Wow K!!!!!!!! Great post!!!!!!!! :o :D :D :D :D

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[quote name='abker17'][quote]Now THAT was harsh. So we had a LITTLE bit of fun. So SUE us! I have a sense of humor. Sorry to IMPOSE it on you. Now time for me to be serious because I guess that's the only thing you understand. Just because some of the people on this board are teens or younger DOES NOT MEAN they are immature. And just because we have senses of humor DOES NOT MAKE US MORONS! I talk to A LOT of them on MSN and I know they are VERY MATURE and INTELLIGENT people. YOU are the immature one telling everyone on the board that only YOU are right and that no one else is. And the word insultive...let's not even get into that....[/quote]


[quote]I'm a teenager. I have a very energetic Golden, that I KNOW how to handle. Most of my time is spent reading up on dogs. learning more about them. In my short teenager life I have owned 2 dogs with "issues". And guess what? both of them turned out fine. Pretty good for a teenager, eh?

Actually, lots of people from this board are teenagers. Hey, Icyshiver is. She has like what, 9 dogs? All of them are rescued and well trained. HazelNutMeg is a teenager. She has Coal. She's really responsible too. Abker is a teenager, she has 2 dogs. She is great with them. Holz_Boomer has 2 dogs also, no problems there.

If you think we're some kind of drunk addicts that get high, have guns or whatever. Think again! We are all mature, responsible TEENAGERS that have dogs and there is nothing wrong with that. I have never read any rule that said teenagers can't have dogs or join boards?

And all you can do, Guest, it Bull Fan, whatever, is insult. While we all give EVIDENCE of what we believe in. We don't insult or be rude or anything.

SO WHO'S THE TEENAGER (MORON) NOW?????

In your face!

(Sorry people, I jsut really hate it when people say teenagers can't be people too. We are never taken seriously! We already have enough problems! ) [/quote]


Go Rowie Go Rowie, Go Dog Lover Go Dog Lover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :calus: U all are great! *Claps hands* Rowie, I totally agree, teens are almost never taken seriously, we are totally streo-typed. The dog message boards I go to are so cool because no one treats us different because we're young. I love ya'll!!!!!!!! :calus: :loveu:[/quote]

:oops: Aww Abker!

I know what you mean! :roll: I can tell my mother something about dogs. Well, she will just nod her head and say yes. I KNOW that means she doesn't believe me! So I ask her what is wrong with what I said? She says that it's okay to believe these things while I am young, and that it is tottaly normal. WHAT? We're not talking about the TOOTH FAIRY here or anything! :lol: So I tell her that wha I just said is TRUE and I have read it in dog books and on ym forum and bla bla. She just NODS! Urgh! :lol: Then we go on forever debating. The only reason she doesn't believe me is because I am a teen! :roll: That's why I wanna hurry and grow up so then people can take me seriously! :lol:

No replies from Pit bull Lover?? How suprising! :lol:

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[quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'][quote name='Anonymous']Must be a bunch of teenagers manipulating this board or morons.[/quote]
Actually, lots of people from this board are teenagers. Hey, Icyshiver is. She has like what, 9 dogs? :o All of them are rescued and well trained. HazelNutMeg is a teenager. She has Coal. She's really responsible too. Abker is a teenager, she has 2 dogs. She is great with them. Holz_Boomer has 2 dogs also, no problems there.
[/quote]
9 :o I wish!! err...what am i saying....I got buck, odie, annie, dutchess, Bishop, Niffer AND I went and took Coal, Lucky and Chaos...:D mine now...so I guess I do have nine dogs...soon to be ten...[size=1]HEERRREEE ROWIE!, I got a nice treat...[/size] :evilbat: :lol:
Court- I too learned not to eat by the computor the hard way.. :lol:

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:lol:

Wait a minute, where's Rowie? :o

She's gone I've looked everywhere! I just saw a letter by her crate that said:

[i]Dear master,
I am fine. Don't worry about me. I have been dognapped by the world's most clever mastermind, Icyshiver. There is no way to get me back. I was fooled by that angelic vioce and treat! And her t-shirt was pretty cool, I had to go investigate! Anyway, I am having fun here with Odie, Lucky, Chaos, and Coal. Please do not look for me. Oh, and can you please send me my orange squeeky ball? I wanna show Odie how fast I can catch a ball!

Love,
Your pooch, Rowie.[/i]

So much for caring about me! :roll: You can keep her for a few days Icy, give her back to me when you notice your table leg has been chewed on! :roll:

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[quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']:lol:

Wait a minute, where's Rowie? :o

She's gone I've looked everywhere! I just saw a letter by her crate that said:

[i]Dear master,
I am fine. Don't worry about me. I have been dognapped by the world's most clever mastermind, Icyshiver. There is no way to get me back. I was fooled by that angelic vioce and treat! And her t-shirt was pretty cool, I had to go investigate! Anyway, I am having fun here with Odie, Lucky, Chaos, and Coal. Please do not look for me. Oh, and can you please send me my orange squeeky ball? I wanna show Odie how fast I can catch a ball!

Love,
Your pooch, Rowie.[/i]

So much for caring about me! :roll: You can keep her for a few days Icy, give her back to me when you notice your table leg has been chewed on! :roll:[/quote]
LOLOLOL!!!!!!! :lol: I've have been laughing so hard for the last 10 mins. What happends if my table only has one leg?!?!?!?! :o :o :o

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[quote name='iceyshiver21'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']:lol:

Wait a minute, where's Rowie? :o

She's gone I've looked everywhere! I just saw a letter by her crate that said:

[i]Dear master,
I am fine. Don't worry about me. I have been dognapped by the world's most clever mastermind, Icyshiver. There is no way to get me back. I was fooled by that angelic vioce and treat! And her t-shirt was pretty cool, I had to go investigate! Anyway, I am having fun here with Odie, Lucky, Chaos, and Coal. Please do not look for me. Oh, and can you please send me my orange squeeky ball? I wanna show Odie how fast I can catch a ball!

Love,
Your pooch, Rowie.[/i]

So much for caring about me! :roll: You can keep her for a few days Icy, give her back to me when you notice your table leg has been chewed on! :roll:[/quote]
LOLOLOL!!!!!!! :lol: I've have been laughing so hard for the last 10 mins. What happends if my table only has one leg?!?!?!?! :o :o :o[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I found another note... by DogMail... :lol:

[i] Dear Master,
Just wanted to tell you that everything is fine here. Icy told me that you told her that I chew on table legs???? Well EXCUSE ME for living! How could you tell on me? Aren't I your fuzzbutt anymore? It's just my hobby, that's all! Now Icy has gone and sprayed bitter apple on all the table legs! Humph!

Other then that things are great here, Odie taught me how to actually "fetch" and not just take the ball and chew on it. Thanks for sending me my orange squeeky ball! Last night we all had a snooze near the fireplace, and it was great! Please don't come looking for me, I am having the time of my life (and it's free too!). Well, that's it, hope to hear from you soon.

Rowie[/i]

:roll:

I just had this image of a Golden Retriever near a fire place writing this message! :lol: This is too hilarious I need to go to the loo! :lol:

I, too, am wondring what Pit Bull Fan has to reply to K's post? And why has s/he suddenly gone from rude, to agreeing with us? :o Something fishy is going on here... can't anybody check the IP's? :-?

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Guest Anonymous

[quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'][quote name='iceyshiver21'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']:lol:

Wait a minute, where's Rowie? :o

She's gone I've looked everywhere! I just saw a letter by her crate that said:

[i]Dear master,
I am fine. Don't worry about me. I have been dognapped by the world's most clever mastermind, Icyshiver. There is no way to get me back. I was fooled by that angelic vioce and treat! And her t-shirt was pretty cool, I had to go investigate! Anyway, I am having fun here with Odie, Lucky, Chaos, and Coal. Please do not look for me. Oh, and can you please send me my orange squeeky ball? I wanna show Odie how fast I can catch a ball!

Love,
Your pooch, Rowie.[/i]

So much for caring about me! :roll: You can keep her for a few days Icy, give her back to me when you notice your table leg has been chewed on! :roll:[/quote]
LOLOLOL!!!!!!! :lol: I've have been laughing so hard for the last 10 mins. What happends if my table only has one leg?!?!?!?! :o :o :o[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I found another note... by DogMail... :lol:

[i] Dear Master,
Just wanted to tell you that everything is fine here. Icy told me that you told her that I chew on table legs???? Well EXCUSE ME for living! How could you tell on me? Aren't I your fuzzbutt anymore? It's just my hobby, that's all! Now Icy has gone and sprayed bitter apple on all the table legs! Humph!

Other then that things are great here, Odie taught me how to actually "fetch" and not just take the ball and chew on it. Thanks for sending me my orange squeeky ball! Last night we all had a snooze near the fireplace, and it was great! Please don't come looking for me, I am having the time of my life (and it's free too!). Well, that's it, hope to hear from you soon.

Rowie[/i]

:roll:

I just had this image of a Golden Retriever near a fire place writing this message! :lol: This is too hilarious I need to go to the loo! :lol:
[/quote]

:lol: How could Rowie possibly be having so much fun with "Humper" there?!?! :o :o Sure has been quite a mess around here, I'm counting down the days to get er... umm... yeah, almost forgot Row, you still gota help prepare me to break the news to Coal without using the words "Nackers Cut" :o :o :lol:


[quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']I, too, am wondring what Pit Bull Fan has to reply to K's post? And why has s/he suddenly gone from rude, to agreeing with us? :o Something fishy is going on here... can't anybody check the IP's? :-?[/quote]

This is just my guess... and I may just be trying to look at the bright side too much, but could it be that PitBull Fan finally had something go "click"? Sometimes in agruments there's a lot of confusion, and people start to attack other people, and then those people attacked will obviously fight back, and before you know it people are shooting off their mouths (not meaning it in a bad way, I do it too, it's no one's fault, just sorta how humans are) and the main subject is lost. My friend and her best friend got in a HUGE fight (believe it or not, it delt with a guy, yeah, go figure :roll: ) and this went on for litterly MONTHS. Before we all knew it, we lost what the whole fight was about! So finally I sat down Kat and said "look, this is what's happened, and this is why.." and did the same to Vikki, and whata ya know? Things were sorted out within a month because the facts got sorted out. So what K did was basiclly get back on the main subject, and have it all explain flat out like that... I think... I guess that's what happened? Maybe? This is just my personal opinion anyway, I could be wrong...

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[quote name='HazelNutMeg'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh'][quote name='iceyshiver21'][quote name='Rowie-the-Pooh']:lol:

Wait a minute, where's Rowie? :o

She's gone I've looked everywhere! I just saw a letter by her crate that said:

[i]Dear master,
I am fine. Don't worry about me. I have been dognapped by the world's most clever mastermind, Icyshiver. There is no way to get me back. I was fooled by that angelic vioce and treat! And her t-shirt was pretty cool, I had to go investigate! Anyway, I am having fun here with Odie, Lucky, Chaos, and Coal. Please do not look for me. Oh, and can you please send me my orange squeeky ball? I wanna show Odie how fast I can catch a ball!

Love,
Your pooch, Rowie.[/i]

So much for caring about me! :roll: You can keep her for a few days Icy, give her back to me when you notice your table leg has been chewed on! :roll:[/quote]
LOLOLOL!!!!!!! :lol: I've have been laughing so hard for the last 10 mins. What happends if my table only has one leg?!?!?!?! :o :o :o[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I found another note... by DogMail... :lol:

[i] Dear Master,
Just wanted to tell you that everything is fine here. Icy told me that you told her that I chew on table legs???? Well EXCUSE ME for living! How could you tell on me? Aren't I your fuzzbutt anymore? It's just my hobby, that's all! Now Icy has gone and sprayed bitter apple on all the table legs! Humph!

Other then that things are great here, Odie taught me how to actually "fetch" and not just take the ball and chew on it. Thanks for sending me my orange squeeky ball! Last night we all had a snooze near the fireplace, and it was great! Please don't come looking for me, I am having the time of my life (and it's free too!). Well, that's it, hope to hear from you soon.

Rowie[/i]

:roll:

I just had this image of a Golden Retriever near a fire place writing this message! :lol: This is too hilarious I need to go to the loo! :lol:
[/quote]

:lol: How could Rowie possibly be having so much fun with "Humper" there?!?! :o :o Sure has been quite a mess around here, I'm counting down the days to get er... umm... yeah, almost forgot Row, you still gota help prepare me to break the news to Coal without using the words "Nackers Cut" :o :o :lol: [/quote]

LOL! :lol: Your nickname is too funny, Shara! On MSN! :lol: :o

Naw, Rowie's having the time of her life, even if Coal is a little, *ahem* humpy.. :o

Hmmm, how should we rephrase "Nackers Cut"?? :o What about, umm, "balls chopped off", or ummm, "no more manhood anymore" or..... hmmm.... COME ON PEOPLE GIVE ME SOME IDEAS! :lol:

K: Tottaly agree with you.. :roll:

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Guest Anonymous

Many times people who get caught in a situation like this are just spouting off based on a theory they over-heard or read somewhere that "sounded good" not that it had any scientific basis, or any fact backing what so ever.

But they will defend that theory based just on the limited information they have, then when confronted by a well put, fact based, and irrefutable comment (K's post) they are basically disarmed and the only thing they had until this point is taken away. there is no fight left, in him/ her basically because there is no way to articulate an arguement based on the limited research and knowledge of the subject matter.

that is at least how i see it, but by all means PBfan if i am wrong please correct me.

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Guest Anonymous

can K or someone delete this Thread??? i wasn't guna write anything to PBFan, and I won't, but this is rediculous (sp?)! After a post like that, it's guna get really outa hand because i know how voiced everyone is at Dogo, and I really don't want something bad happening!!! :o :o

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