Kaleb124 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I know that I have been bugging you guys a lot lately... :-? So I got Kaleb a bag of Wellness and he likes it ok. He actually seems to like it better than the Eukanuba. However, he will only eat about 2 cups a day. He needs a little additional weight so now I am considering raw because I think that he will eat that better. To those of you who feed BARF: 1. Do you just feed the raw meats/vegs or do you use a kibble as a base? 2. Do you add any grain, (oats, rice, etc)? 3. Do you supplement? 4. Do you fast you dogs? Why or why not? To those of you who looked into barf and stuck with kibble, why did you choose to stay with kibble? I am anal about the food that I feed Kaleb in so far that I want him to be as healthy as possible. I have been looking at the local grocers for meat prices and actually found a very small locally owned store that sold chicken necks, lamb neck bones, pork neck bones, and other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiger Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 1. Do you just feed the raw meats/vegs or do you use a kibble as a base? [color=red]Most people say not to feed kibble and raw at the same time because kibble takes longer to digest. Anyway, Kato gets chicken mince which is chicken and ground up chicken bones, plus a spoonful of veggie "slop" which is pureed spinach, pumpkin, asparagus, carrots, apples, blueberries, and broccoli. Sometimes he get the patties which are chicken, finely ground chicken bones, beef liver, whole egg, cultured kefir, broccoli, celery, spinach, carrot, ground flax seed, bok choy, dried alfalfa leaf powder, beef kidney, beef heart, unbleached beef tripe, apple, pear, grapefruit, orange, dried kelp powder, garlic, capsicum. [/color] 2. Do you add any grain, (oats, rice, etc)? [color=red]Not unless I want a dog with diarrhea.[/color] 3. Do you supplement? [color=red]The patties are complete, but if I stick with the chicken mince and veggie slop, I will probably add salmon oil and probiotics.[/color] 4. Do you fast you dogs? Why or why not? [color=red]No, I switched cold turkey to BARF, and I've never had any reason to fast him.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Chaos Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 To those of you who feed BARF: 1. Do you just feed the raw meats/vegs or do you use a kibble as a base? [color=blue] just yogurt or cottage cheese for breakfast and raw meat and veggies for dinner.[/color] 2. Do you add any grain, (oats, rice, etc)? [color=blue]Once every two weeks they get oatmeal mixed with yogurt for breakfast[/color] 3. Do you supplement? [color=blue]Yes, I use kelp, alfalfa,apple cider vinegar and Wysong E.F.A.[/color] 4. Do you fast you dogs? Why or why not? [color=blue]No, cause Chaos is only 8 months and it wouldn't be fair to fast Lucky but not her.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 [b]1. Do you just feed the raw meats/vegs or do you use a kibble as a base? [/b] [color=red]I feed only raw (I go easy on the organ meats), I give a variety of meats and Veggies..the veggies I put in my blender to puree, the meat I cut into bite size chunks. One day a week I feed canned sardines/salmon with cooked rice...I also feed a variety of fruits as treats or mixed with natural bio yoghurt... My dogs also get plenty of bones including recreational bones for their teeth. [b]2. Do you add any grain, (oats, rice, etc)? [/b] I grind up my own flax seeds and add to their food (some dogs cannot tolerate flax, my dogs do wonderful on it) I also feed oats once in awhile and I grow alfalfa greens for the dogs to nibble on[/color] [b]3. Do you supplement? [/b] Yes, one of my dogs has HD I add Yucca, Glucosamine/condri, MSM, for the other dogs I add Kelp and once a week I add a B-50 complex and a Vitamin E with mixed topherians etc...apple cider vinegar once in a while for my dogs, daily for my dog which had a yeast over growth [b]4. Do you fast you dogs? Why or why not? [/b] Yes, I kinda fast my dogs on Sunday...I usually use this for a detox day and give them milk thistle...works well for me especially since one of my dogs had a yeast over growth in her system and the detox has worked well for her...none of my dogs are tiny and one day of fasting will not hurt them...I do give them a little bit of yoghurt and berries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicat613 Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 No kibble at all. The whole point of us doing this is so that I am in charge of what he gets and that is is all fresh, life giving human quality food. I do feed grain but would not to most dogs. For us, at this point, grains are working well for us to add some weight on, but it is not my ideal and once he is grown, we may not need to at all. Unfortunately without grains just has not worked for us. Supplementing...well I try to provide all the nutrients through the diet, but I do supplement with vitamin C, essential oils (salmon oil, olive oil, flax and pumpkin seeds), digestive enzymes, probiotics (in yogurt or kefir). Otherwise we try to attain balance and completeness through the variety in the diet, but I think this would depend on the dog, on how much and what he/she is willing to eat. My dog is 130 lbs and growing, so he eats more than I do, which gives us a lot of time to get in a lot of different foods in a day. I don't fast because he is young and growing. Danes are still very much puppies at 10 months, and he is very thin. He normally eats 3 full meals a day plus snacks, but one day a week he gets 2 meals instead. That's about as close to fasting as I am going to get at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Help me pick a food post --"I have decided to go with Wellness and, in addition to that, have started adding raw meats to his diet. His stools are fine (so far), he is drinking less water, and he has energy to boot. Also, he is putting on additional muscle mass. :o ...I mean I have only been feeding this for a week, but I swear his shoulders and legs all look more muscled up. Surely it is his age (10 months) and not the food. But if it is the food (after only 1 week) I can't wait to see what he looks like in a couple of months. :P " So I have taken the plunge...I have cut Kaleb's kibble in half and started giving him some chicken (wings, gizzards, and hearts mostly). In addition to that, I give him salmon oil, and vitamin C, Nupro supplement, yogurt, apple cider vinegar, and a little cottage cheese. So far he loves it! He is eating his meals with vigor. His stool is great. It is less frequent and smaller. There have been no stomach upsets yet...(keeping fingers crossed). AND I have found a great local grocery where the meat is CHEAP! My only problem is that my freezer is full of meat! We are going to have to get a deep freezer just for the dog. :wink: Thank all of you for your information. Especially thank you for the link to the Great Dane Lady's site. It was very helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Glad to hear things are going well for you. You will definatly notice a change in muscle bulk. My Kelpie/Pit cross mut like dog (hehe - Tessa :wink: ) has always been physically slightly more kelpie like, but since the switch if it weren't for her markings I'd almost swear she was a full blood Pit! And even the poodle/chihuahua has stacked on the muscles! Just a note on vit C - dogs synthesise their own so there is no need to add it. And vit E - there is plenty in raw meat so there is not much point there either unless your dog is getting alot of rancid fat, in which case they do need additional vit E. Try to keep the offal to around 10% of the total intake, otherwise the diet may well be too rich and have an excess in certain vitamins. Once you make the total switch and ditch the dry food completely I swear you will never lood back :D I've had a look at the Dane Ladys page in the past and though it did have some good points I remember there were some things she said that I really disagreed with. If you havn't already seen it, an excellent page is [url]http://www.barfers.com/[/url] Well all I have left to say is I hope you get as much out of feeding BARF and I am with my gang! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisysmom Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 1. Do you just feed the raw meats/vegs or do you use a kibble as a base? [color=blue]I feed each dog a little different, but for Daisy, I feed raw meaty bones, veggies cubes when I have them, yogurt, cottage cheese, fruit. A typical day would be: Breakfast: chicken necks and yogurt; dinner: Chicken necks or backs, and a raw egg, or fish and veggies or fruit.[/color] [color=brown]I got lazy with Chelsea and only feed her meat in the AM and yogurt and kibble in the afternoon.[/color] [color=darkblue]Jake is on a good holistic kibble only (so far)[/color] 2. Do you add any grain, (oats, rice, etc)? [color=blue]I only add grain (rice only) when Daisy is sick, but hardly ever. Now I add pumpkin instead.[/color] 3. Do you supplement? [color=darkblue]Yes, I supplement. I give Daisy L glutamine (sp) for her bowel and a enzyme supplement. And I give all three fish oil supplements[/color] 4. Do you fast you dogs? Why or why not? [color=blue]I only fast Daisy when she gets a bad case of diarrhea.[/color] To those of you who looked into barf and stuck with kibble, why did you choose to stay with kibble? [color=darkblue]With Chelsea, it's just easier to prepare, and she can handle the kibble and Daisy cannot.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 After yesterday, I am ready to ditch the dry food now. My husband is pushing me to keep feeding kibble (wellness). However, I have been feeding Kaleb mostly raw with the exception of a tiny bit of kibble every couple days. So make my hubby happy, I fed Kaleb a meal of only kibble. All day yesterday he had VERY BAD gas and diarrhea. GREAT!! So the kibble is gone. I guess I am a full convert finally. AND I have bought a deep freezer to keep meat in (hubby requested getting a deep freezer because there was no room in our freezer for people food :-? ) So I guess I am on my way!! The things that I have noticed that are GREAT 1.) no more gas!!! 2.) No more stinky dog breath! 3.) More muscle mass! 4.) He is gaining weight (that he desperately needs) but it is muscle and NOT FAT! 5.) He is less picky about his meals. 6.) Poops are MUCH smaller and are gone/close to gone the next day! I have been searching for studies and/or information that I can print out about raw feeding and give my hubby to read. I have looked at a lot of info myself (enough to convince me to feed raw), but [i]hubby[/i] wants a study that is completed by a major dog food company and says "Raw is best, but our x-brand food is second best". Does anything like that exist? I seriously doubt it, but I tought I would ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisysmom Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I belong to K9 nutrition group. If you want to join, they can answer a lot of your questions. it is a Yahoo group - K9Nutrition You may have to be recommended? If so use my name. PM me with any questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisysmom Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 One thing too about mixing kibble with raw meat is that the kibble may force the raw meat to stay in the system longer, which would allow more time for bacteria to grow. Then you can develop problems like e-coli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 I had heard/read that too, but I thought as long as you did not mix them in the same meal, that it would be ok. He seems better today. He had one bought of diarrhea last night. I gave him a small (6 ounces) of beef muscle meat this morning. He has not had any problems since (so far anyway). He is still *off* though. He acts like his belly hurts. But right now he is laying here beside me napping. I joined that k9nutrition group. I am happily waiting for the pouring in of new info. Thanks a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisysmom Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 You're welcome!!! If his diarreha continutes, give him some canned pumpkin. (NOT PUMPKIN PIE MIX) That will stop it immediately. Works wonders!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 :oops: Already feeding pumpkin to help constipation, but also ran out 2 days ago. Headed to the grocery today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisysmom Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Oh no, it is not for constipation :wink: The bones really firm up the stool. Try adding more veggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Glad to hear you are going well. Pumpkin can work wonders! Lily had sloppy stools her whole life, not one firm one, ever. I was on the verge of taking her to the vet when someone suggested pureed pumpkin. Well i tried it and it worked!!! Now that she is used to her new diet though (switched to a mostly raw diet along with the pumpkin, she is now 100% raw) I don't even have to use the pumkin and she is pooping just fine! If she poops at dog training I am never ashamed to pick it up and and actually quite proud to see that her poops are even smaller than those done by the smallest dogs there! Nothing like a bout of diareaha and smelly farts to convince hubby to drop the kibble! You'll find that farts become quite bearable on a BARF diet, you still smell them but they aren't at all bad, just like cooked cauliflower :-? :lol: The deep freezers a good idea, I'm going to buy one for my dogs as soon as I've paid this stupid uni general service fee and am out of debt from buying text books etc. I'm also buying a juicer! That way I can get a little bit out of feeding my dogs a great diet also! They get the pulp and a majority of the juice, I get however much juice I feel like on the day! All those positive changes that you have noticed are fairly typical of the diet, after dropping the kibble you should also notice that his energy is not so hyper active, but more of a healthy energy. I hate to say it, but no pet food company will ever do a study to prove that feeding raw is best. It is so hard to find any studies whatsoever to benifit raw feeding as, up with coffee and oil, the pet food industry is the most profitable industry out there. But, if you like to read and want some evidence to support raw feeding, Dr tom Lonsdale has a book called "Raw Meaty Bones" which publishes some studies that he has done with some quite astonishing results. But guess what? The veterinary magazines would never publish any of them because they are too busey covering the pet food industrys butt. So there you go, proof that we are left in the dark from the truth, the pet food industry is so powerful that they wont allow anything that might make them seem bad to ever be published. I may join that K9nutrition list, I've already joined about three other lists but I guess you can never be too educated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 We just got a deep freezer....Hubby got tired of all the meat taking up our freezer of the fridge, so a deep freezer now sits in his bathroom. HAHAHA!! At least he is happier about the refridgerator-freezer being mostly empty. Kaleb had a bad bought of diarreah last week. UGG...I fed him a meal of just kibble and viola!! Runny, watery poop. So NO MORE KIBBLE FOR KALEB. I fasted him for 24 hours, and then started adding pumpkin. He is great now. I have a big list of books that I would like to purchase about raw feeding. I just have not purchased them yet. I can probably order them this week. I have to find the cheapest place to get them. I am really excited about this raw stuff....Hubby is finally coming around!! Friday we went and bought the meat for this week. Hubby wanted to get Kaleb a big STEAK! I thought it was funny. So now Kaleb will have to "suffer" through eating a 12 oz sirloin. Poor Guy! :lol: I am slowly finding places that carry meat at very good prices. Friday I found cut up whole chickens for 39 cents a pound! I was tickled! Kaleb's energy level has gine up a lot! Before he slept all of the time. Now he is calm, but has energy to burn. I can tell if he needs more exercise because he is whiny and will not leave me alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 [quote name='Kaleb124']Hubby wanted to get Kaleb a big STEAK! I thought it was funny. So now Kaleb will have to "suffer" through eating a 12 oz sirloin. Poor Guy! :lol: [/quote] LOL, some people are such softies!!! Dads cat, a gorgeous Siamese, Meeko, has got the most beautiful coat on him and is rather pudgy for a Siamese seeing as every body in the neighbourhood has fallen in love with him and feeds him cheese and steak every day!!! :lol: Its good to hear things are all going as well as planned. As for the books, are you getting Ian Billinghursts give your dog a bone? Although all raw methods of feeding give comparitivly good results compared to kibble, I've heard alot of good remarks about "Give Your Dog a Bone" and although I havn't been able to get my hands on it yet, when I do I'll spend all my time reading it until I'm through! And i wish I could find whole chickens at that price!!! Gosh, meat here is so expensive, if I lived an hour away I could buy it directly from the wholesaler but unfortunatly I have to spend inflated supermarket prices. Fortunatly I know the manager of one of the local butchers very well, well enough that I get in trouble with him if I don't go to pick up some free bones every week :oops: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 [quote]As for the books, are you getting Ian Billinghursts give your dog a bone? Although all raw methods of feeding give comparitivly good results compared to kibble, I've heard alot of good remarks about "Give Your Dog a Bone" and although I havn't been able to get my hands on it yet, [/quote] Me either. All of the places that I have looked over the internet do not have and say that they cannot get it. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Cassie Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I have found a major difference in my Newf's on the raw diet...I only have one of my Newf's on the raw diet as my other 3 legally belong to the breeder and she still uses them for showing etc...she buys all their food and Vet bills are paid by her also...she feeds the dogs kibble, she is not crazy about raw as most of the dog shows she organizes are sponsored by dog food companies and they are always giving her promotions lending her tents for the shows and tables etc...so the dog shows and Vets are very dependant on dog food companies...Vets also do not study much on nutrition in school...learning only what dog food companies provide (specialized foods etc) also kibble helps keep our dogs just a little sickely and lowers their immune systems with all that added grain which can cause yeast over growths which lead to food intolerances which can be misdiagnosed as food allergies etc...any way enough ranting!!! :lol: I have found with my Newf which is on a raw diet she always held a dull coat which was turning brown...thinking it was only the sun bleaching her coat I never thought much about it...any way, now that she is on the raw her coat is beautiful black and shiny - gone is the horrid brown and red! my dogs which are still on kibble have this horribe brown to their coat...it just looks so unhealthy...and they constantly have a large wax build up in their ears...my Newf on raw and my Rottie on raw used to have major wax build up on kibble...now their ears are clear and healthy...they no longer have an odor!!! yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltielover Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 [quote name='Kaleb124'][quote]As for the books, are you getting Ian Billinghursts give your dog a bone? Although all raw methods of feeding give comparitivly good results compared to kibble, I've heard alot of good remarks about "Give Your Dog a Bone" and although I havn't been able to get my hands on it yet, [/quote] Me either. All of the places that I have looked over the internet do not have and say that they cannot get it. :([/quote] Is this the book you are looking for? [url]http://dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DN138[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 [quote name='sheltielover'][quote name='Kaleb124'][quote]As for the books, are you getting Ian Billinghursts give your dog a bone? Although all raw methods of feeding give comparitivly good results compared to kibble, I've heard alot of good remarks about "Give Your Dog a Bone" and although I havn't been able to get my hands on it yet, [/quote] Me either. All of the places that I have looked over the internet do not have and say that they cannot get it. :([/quote] Is this the book you are looking for? [url]http://dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DN138[/url][/quote] YES!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltielover Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Looks like they have it in stock too, Kaleb. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroura Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Good to hear you found the book! Even though its an australian book its not in any of the book shops here and you have to order it straight from Dr Ian Billinghurst himself. I just havn't got the money to buy it right now plus I am right in the middle of reading Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health by Dr Tom Lonsdale. I'm going to ask for it for christmas though! :lol: Cassy, about the brown splotches, I know exactly what you're talking about! We thought our poodle cross was naturally brown and grey with a bit of black, since the switch we have realised that underneath it all she was always meant to be a black dog!!! :lol: Its funny in a way, but thinking of the ill health that she must have been in due to commercial food to get that way is a rather sad though :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb124 Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 I ordered it! I can't wait until it gets here! Thanks Sheltielover!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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