Encyclopedia Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 We cannot help the fact that people constantly breed dogs that have no business being created. Take in example, the Cockapoo. What is this? A dog with Poodle and Cocker Spaniel parents is what it is. More commonly known as a mutt or mixed breed. Mixed breeds make wonderful pets, but that gives no one the right to go out and breed millions of mixed puppies and sell them for a profit. Just plain insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athenix Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I fully agree. My Aunt was telling me about the dog that they recently purchased from the pet store, a purebred "Cockapoo". It took me about ten minutes to figure out that this was actually a mutt, and I didn't have the heart to tell her. A mixed breed is just that... a mixed breed. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It seems to me that if you really want a Cocker Spaniel/Poodle mix (or any breed that has an "oodle or poo" affixed to the end), the smart thing to do would be to keep checking in at the local animal shelter to see if one shows up; that way you'd be saving a life and not just paying to advance an industry that is causing more harm than good, as I see it. But, of course, then, you wouldn't have the "papers" to go along with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beautiful Border Collie Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 There is a place near here that sells what they call "hybrid dogs". There are so many of them. Some are called PUGGLES, YORKIEPOO, SCHNOODLE, LABRADOODLE, PEEK A POO, MALTAPOO- i cant remember them all. Take a look if you want. Its at the barkinglot.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Please explain more why you believe that these breeds have 'no business' being created? Why not? Surely as long as the health and temperament of the dogs is utmost in peoples minds and all breeding stock is tested for the relevant hereditary disorders applicable then it doesn't really matter. If someone wishes to create a new breed (as people have done such as the Cesky Terrier which is now an internationally recognised breed and is basically a mix of Sealyham and Scotty terriers) then let them. Yes money is a motivational factor but so is the breeding of pure bred dogs for some people and huge numbers of pure breeds are bred without thought and consideration. You should be condemning everyone who breeds purely for money regardless of what they chose to breed because it is the money grabbers that fill the rescue centres not the beautifully raised dogs (regardless of pedigree) where the breeder gives a lifetime of help and support and will take the dog back for whatever reason. Bec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Bec --- the reason so many people are against the crossing and calling it a NEW breed, is because --- it takes LONGER than 63 days for a breed to be established. YEARS of perfection, selective breeding and genetic manipulation to be able to consciously call the mixture of two breeds, a NEW breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Do you know what I have heard about the "-oodle" and "-poo" dogs? That they have been made for allergics so that all allergics can have a dog without any problems. :evil: I'm really mad about this whole thing. I am absolutely NOT against mixed breeds, but passing on a mixed breed as a NEW breed when we allredy have several houndreds of dogbreeds is just plain sick to me. There are millions of dogs in shelters and on streets in the world allredy, go and make a new breed and see how many millions are added. A few years ago we had in our little town in Finland a big problem with stray cats. They were EVERYWHERE! People took cats on summer and when they grew up, they just abandoned them. Then thoose cats had kittens and well.. population grew. It went really bad so that people started killing thoose poor stray cats! :cry: Not the best sollution to everything. Now theese days we don't have as many stray cats and everyone has forgotten that incident. Everyone but me, that is... :cry: So... Think of it... What if everyone would just go and kill every homeless dog or cat. That would solve the problem, right? And then everyone could make new breeds without any problems, right? :evil: Sorry about this language. I just boil when I hear and think of this. :oops: There is just one thing that makes me even more angry. That I can't help thoose poor things by giving them a new home because of my allergies... :cry: /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 The vet we use is a wonderful person. If you bring in a stray dog or cat, he'll neuter or spay for free. His feeling on this, there are too many stray dogs that have no homes, but survive by their own mean. He gives them an extra chance at survival by neutering and spaying them. Even if they aren't adopted by the person that brought them in (some can't because of different reasons), he'll still neuter and spay them. He has about 15 dogs that stay at the clinic that he's adopted. They are kennelled at night and run around the property during the day. He has an assortment of breeds, size, color and cuteness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 They do the same thing here with cats Hobbit. An Animal Shelter realized long ago that there are a whole lot more stray cats than there are people willing to take them in, and they dont euthanize but couldnt keep them all. They go around in trucks rounding up the strays, neuter/spay them and return them to their "home areas". This is paid for by donations from the public and private donations. They go out once a month and check up on them, doing visual checks and if one seems in distress they'll take it back to the clinic. The people that live in the area will sometimes feed them and Anderson has a piece of property out there (an old barn) that they bought and "fixed up" so the cats have somewhere to stay warm in the winter. I was amazed when I heard this - I had not known about this at all. It seems to be working. The wild cat population is under control and actually shrinking a little, and the cats seem very well able to care for themselves once the issue of warmth was taken care of. It's not as nice a life as laying on a rug in front of a fireplace of course, but it's much better than having them suffer and die in the cold, and keep producing more kittens!! They also have a lot fewer field mice and gopher issues now too.... My guess (without an facts to back this up) is that the area golf courses may have contributed to this. There is a big mice and gopher problem here, they dig holes to live in on the golf courses and people have sprained their ankles and broken them stepping into one of the concealed holes....this is a good solution for them. The barn is not far from one of the big major golf courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 [quote name='Hobbit']Bec --- the reason so many people are against the crossing and calling it a NEW breed, is because --- it takes LONGER than 63 days for a breed to be established. YEARS of perfection, selective breeding and genetic manipulation to be able to consciously call the mixture of two breeds, a NEW breed.[/quote] I entirely agree but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. If someone wants to put the time and dedication in that is required to create a new breed then good luck to them. It's not responsible breeders who's dogs end up in rescue (and if they do they will try to get them back) it's the irresponsible that should be condemned whether they breed pure bred or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 The thing is they are not creating a new breed. That i the point. Most only want that cross breed, with a fancy name to sell it. The other reality is, that there are already *SO MANY* mixes...many poodle and or cocker mixes...that we don't need any more...and there is the truth that no responsible poodle breeder or cocker breeder (at least that I know of) would sell a dog knowing it was going to be mixed...therefor...more then likely many of these people are starting out with inferior stock...even with a crossbreed...you start out with inferior you get inferior.... Now could there be some one out there trying to perfect a cockapoo breed? sure...but why call it a cockapoo...why not come up with an origional name? As for Labradoodles...sheesh we alreay have them...called the irish water spanial or the curly coated retriever.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 [quote name='Jerakeen'][quote name='Hobbit']Bec --- the reason so many people are against the crossing and calling it a NEW breed, is because --- it takes LONGER than 63 days for a breed to be established. YEARS of perfection, selective breeding and genetic manipulation to be able to consciously call the mixture of two breeds, a NEW breed.[/quote] I entirely agree but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. [color=red][b]Please show me ON THIS THREAD where I tarred anyone?? [/b][/color] If someone wants to put the time and dedication in that is required to create a new breed then good luck to them. It's not responsible breeders who's dogs end up in rescue (and if they do they will try to get them back) it's the irresponsible that should be condemned whether they breed pure bred or otherwise.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crested Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 [quote name='Jerakeen'][quote name='Hobbit']Bec --- the reason so many people are against the crossing and calling it a NEW breed, is because --- it takes LONGER than 63 days for a breed to be established. YEARS of perfection, selective breeding and genetic manipulation to be able to consciously call the mixture of two breeds, a NEW breed.[/quote] I entirely agree but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. If someone wants to put the time and dedication in that is required to create a new breed then good luck to them. It's not responsible breeders who's dogs end up in rescue (and if they do they will try to get them back) it's the irresponsible that should be condemned whether they breed pure bred or otherwise.[/quote] Makeing a new breed is not just stupid, it's irresponsible. I didn't mean that the dogs of -poo and -oodle breeders end up in rescue, but that when the dog population rises even more and now with EVEN MORE [b][i][u]NEW[/u][/i][/b] breeds, think of the disaster that is waiting to happen! I think it's wonderfull that there are mixed breeds, but when you put a name on a mix and start selling it with that name saying it's a NEW BREED, that is going too far. Personally I think it's wrong to intentionally mix two purebred dogs to create puppies. I think it's ok if the pups come as an "accident", but I don't think it's the best idea to intentionally breed mixed breeds allthough I have nothing against mixes. I don't know... I just think it's wrong... In my head (of some unexplainable reason) I see breeding mixed dogs intentionally is just a profit buissness. As long as you get money with breeding your dog with the neighbourghs dog, then why not? /Crest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Im sory but i find it repulsive that people can let any to dog s get it on think of a cutsey name and try to get paid, its bull. While they are sitting there getting fat on people who want these cute little hybrids take them to a shelter i bet they ahave more and better mixes that get put down everyday. If you what a sshnoodle or a poodle-ador ar a rottpull or any other goofy named dog go to the shelter take a look at the tag and make up your own name for it. Stop adding to a problem that we already cant control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Encyclopedia Posted April 17, 2003 Author Share Posted April 17, 2003 Jerakeen (Bec), creating breeds is not a great way to start a breeding program. It is actually no way to even breed. Creating these breeds is unneccasary with all of the shelter animals dying each day. The Larbradoodle may have been created so people would have a good guide dog and not have to worry about allergies, but other hypoallerginec dogs out there also make great guide dogs. Labradors and Golden Retrievers are not the only service dogs in the world you know! Cockerpoo's and other Poo breeds were created out of stupidity in my opinion. Athenix is right. If you would like to have a poo breed, then wait for one to appear in the shelter. Creating new breeds just puts the shelter at higher risk of having to put them to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Encyclopedia Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 [url]http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/poodlemix.htm[/url] Here you go, a complete list of what I like to call, "Breeder's Stupidity." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Encyclopedia I am with you on this one there are enough good breeds already out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 NO!! NO!!! NO!!!!!! they did it to a doberman. Now they have gone too far. :snipersmile: :2gunfire: :chainsaw1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosebud Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 [quote name='Jerakeen']I entirely agree but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. If someone wants to put the time and dedication in that is required to create a new breed then good luck to them. It's not responsible breeders who's dogs end up in rescue (and if they do they will try to get them back) it's the irresponsible that should be condemned whether they breed pure bred or otherwise.[/quote] It is irresponsible breeders that are crossing these breeds. These pups are sold in pet stores or the newspapers. Regular people who don't know any better are buying them, they usually don't know what ethical/responsible breeding is much less what kind of health tests to run. The pups used to create the cross-breed are probably from puppy mills or unethical breeders. What do you think happens to the cross-bred pups that have health issues before their 6 weeks old (the standard pet store age), their killed or dropped off at shelters. These breeders have no other motive but taking a financial advantage of a FAD. Is their a national breed club that is monitoring the development of these new cross-breeds. Is there a web-site devoted to the advancement of these so-called new breeds. I would like to know, although I doubt that there is any. A responsible breeder has life homes already set-up for a litter before their bitch is bred. They do not run ads in the newspaper or sell them in pet stores. They offer guarantees, like taken the pup back for ANY reason, they usually require some sort of training like obedience. They are available to their pups new parents 24/7. They have researched pedigrees, health tests, temperment to find the perfect stud to breed to. AND, they only breed if they feel like the breeding will make the breed better; ex. more sound in bone structure, healt, tempermant and performance. :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckychaos Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 We have no need for new breeds anymore. When the original breeds were created they had a purpose, whether it be hunting or herding. When was the last time you saw a poodle jumping into a lake to retrieve waterfowl for a hunter? Almost no breeds are still used for their original purpose, and unless you have a job for that breed to do, other then being a companian, because we have enough great companian pure breds and mixes already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 There is an outbreak of "breeders" breeding these poo and oodle mixes. I am against creating new breeds because: 1- There are already millions of dogs are PTS because of lack of homes 2- I repeatedly read about mix breeders condoning this practice, and see them posting all over to sell puppies, but don't know the name of 1 "breeder" working toward establishing and actual breed club (which is where they would need to start before breeding) with a realistic "breed" standard for the new breed. How would an agreement between "breeders" be reached to determine if the oodledoodle should mirror the traits type and temp. moreso of the oodle or the doodle? How does one say it is alright for "me" to breed my mix but not alright for you to breed your mix? 3- A serious fancier would spay/neuter all of these "test" puppies who are not going to be the right result for several generations until consistency is set. This includes temperament, health, type, ability. Can you see these breeders altering all of their pups before they are purchased? 4- For every 1 serious breeder hoping to establish such a breed there will be a dozen unscrupulous breeders "cashing in". Leading to #5 5- An Explosion in the numbers of dogs being bred, resulting in MORE dogs in shelters. 6- It is essential these "breeders" have a great understanding of canine genetics & health and knowledge of canine anatomy/conformation however many don't. 7- Buyers are under the false impression that because these mixes are $$ Expensive they are getting a well bred quality dog. They are also being made to believe these mixes are already recognized breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie_Gurl Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 The whole idea of breeding mutts is totally retarded. It's all about money. You can't just throw some dogs together and start a new breed. Breeds, as they've already said, come from hard work and dedication from hundreds (sometimes thousands) of years to breed the dogs to their greatest ability. Labradoodls anyone can make, just get a lab and a poodle together... same with Shipoos and Cockapoos and all those other "breeds". But, try making a Golden Retriever starting from scratch or a Collie (any pure bred real breed). You simply can't do it. It's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athenix Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 A few thoughts... 1. A "mutt" is commonly defined as "a dog with unknown heritage, or a dog with purebred parents of different breeds". Therefore, a cocker spaniel crossed with a poodle, no matter how pure the parents were, or how great the dog is, is still a mutt. That said, mutts can make the best pets :) 2. Cockapoo seems to be, from everything I've seen/heard, by now, an "accepted" breed. I use the term lightly, as I certainly don't accept it as a breed! As a perfectly nice dog, yes... a recognized breed, no. Let's say a few cockapoo breeders got together and made a real effort to have their dogs recognized by the AKC, and succeeded. Well, with the popularity of all these various poodle crosses, can we see what happens next? Suddenly all sorts of breeders are pushing for AKC status and litters and litters of puppies are being bred in order to "perfect" the breed. Where do all of these dogs go? With the amount of homeless dogs in the US today, I have a hard time believing to purely good homes. 3. I've seen a trend in mixing any old breed with a poodle and selling at an absurd price as a "hypo-allergenic dog". Poodles do tend to not aggravate allergy sufferers as much, but it's not foolproof. Different people have different triggers. My boyfriend has an Aunt with a poodle; he's dying if he's around it more than ten minutes. He had no problem cuddling with my Golden, though, and when she curled up on a (too small!) loveseat with us, she was allowed to stay for about four hours of a long movie because he didn't have a problem. Attempting to cash out on someone's allergies is just wrong... And on the allergy topic, a labradoodle is half Labrador, so there would be no guarantees that the pup "inherited" its parents' "hypo-allergenic" coat... or would it? (I honestly don't know the answer to that one). It just seems to me an unnecessary waste of lives and people's money. And there's the danger of a person buying an expensive, purebred, cockapoo, thinking it's such a great breed, finding a mate, and breeding cock-a-doodle-poo's. The person needs to understand upfront that it's a mixed breed and it was bred through a mix of a cocker spaniel and poodle. Otherwise we'll have a litany of mixed-mixed breed dogs out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 I agree with most everyone on this subject. There are way to many mix breeds in shelters for people to be breeding other dogs. Is there any good reason to breed Cockapoo or a labradoodle? If there is a good reason i'd sure like to hear it. And is there anyone breeding these dogs that dosn't do it for the money? This is just soo frusterating knowing that there are so many good dogs that are put to sleep every day. Pound dogs are just as good if not better than any dog that you can breed. And to breed dogs you do have to know allot about genetics and I doubt that these people who are breeding Cockapoos know the difference between there hand and there bum! I'm sory but this whole thing just infuriates me. :evil: Hmm maybe becasue my dog is a mix I can start breeding him and call his pups 'gerpitt retrievers'! (german sheapard, golden, pitt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerakeen Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Sorry Hobbit, didn't mean you!! I meant the Royal you :D! Crested, Why is crossing to breeds a disaster? Exactly how do you think EVERY breed came into existance today? How inbred do you think Chinese Cresteds were in order to get the hairless gene stabilised? Is that responsible breeding? Encyclopedia, many people who are attempting to establish these 'crosses' as a new breed do have a background of pure bred dog breeding behind them. I agree that if you want a hypoallergenic dog get a poodle. Yes many many people breed crosses for money but so do many pure bred breeders. Mouse, the Sharp Pei is a relatively 'new' breed. Do you reallty think the breeders in China stuck with stiking Shar pei to shar pei? No they used the best dogs they could find and eventually established a type. They must have chow in their somewhere because of the coloured tongue. Rosebud if you want to stop dogs being bred for money then get a law passed to make it illegal to sell them in pet shops. That would stop most of the commercial breeders in their tracks. I'd be right behind you on that one. Yes responsible breeders do have homes lined up and offer lifetime advice etc but that isn't confined to pure bred breeders either. Lucky, who are you to say we have enough. Since when is it your decision to make a statement like that. In you opinion yes there may be but others may not think the same. RR I suggest you take a good look round the net. In America there are 2 clubs for Cockerpoos. One appears to be far more responsible than the other so there are people trying to do it properly. Prairie Gurl, every breed around today was started from scratch so it is, therefore, not impossible. Athenix do you know how hard it is to get even a breed that comes from another country 'recognised' if it isn't already so. Most of the Kennel Clubs of each country require a huge amount of generations and breed standards etc set before even considering it so I think it highly unlikely that people will be requesting that this crossed with that to be recognised. Starfox, is there any good reason to breed any animal? Bec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 the shar-pei is new to the uk only first imported 22 years ago in the book shar-pei today history of the breed says the breed can be traced back to Han Dynasty in China 206 BC to 220 AD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.