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BAN-DOGS


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

What you guys opinions?

I seem to like these dogs makes them more powerful and mostly makes them look better in my opinion. Can you people shed some light this.

Pit and Presa cross is one of the best i know of!

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The generally accepted "definition" of a Bandog is a cross between a bull breed and a molosser breed. The most common cross is Neopolitan Mastiff x APBT. The reason for crossing the breeds is to hopefully obtain the "ultimate" protection dog... wary/protective like a Neo (or other mastiff breed), athletic and "game" like and APBT (or other bully breed). I can see how such a cross (if it turned out well) could be great for that type of work, but don't agree with them being sold to/bred by the "average" dog owner, and wish word had never gotten out about them, as they aren't a dog for amateur/irresponsible owners. Some of these dogs are stable, healthy (both mentally & physically), seeming to have inherited "good" traits fro mboth breeds.... others are complete messes, unstable, unhealthy, and dangerous. People who fancy the breed will argue that a good "Bandog" is better at [i]their[/i] job than any other breed, opponents of the cross will argue that a "bad" one is more dangerous than any other dog in existance, because they may have the human aggression of a mastiff (not saying that all mastiffs are people-aggressive), and the tenacity/strength of a pit bull. I feel that if people want to breed these dogs for this purpose, they should keep their lines under close wraps, NOT sell to the general public, only sell/give the dogs to homes that they KNOW can handle such a dog, and be willing to cull any dogs that are substandard either physically or mentally (especially mentally, as an unstable dog of that size could easily kill someone). Of course, when BYBs start cashing in on this new "breed", all the attacks will be added to either the "mastiff" count, "pit bull" count, most likely the latter :roll: . Another thing, serious breeders of these crosses aren't just breeding F1 generations over and over (like most "poo" breeders), but seem to be trying to acheive a uniformity in working ability and temperment (they're supposed to be a working breed, so the breeders aren't particularly worried about physical appearance). I don't particularly like the idea of crossing breeds, but I can see doing so if there's not a dog available that fills that purpose (not sure whether there's a need or not in this case... most of the mastiffs have been pretty much ruined by BYBs and people breeding only for conformation, rather than working ability, but there are still a few good working mastiff breeds out there). I don't agree with crossing breeds just to get a dog that "looks" stronger, tougher, or "better" in some way. That's what gets most working breeds into trouble in the first place.

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:confused1: The reason for crossing the breeds is to hopefully obtain the [u]"ultimate"[/u] protection dog... [u]wary/protective[/u] like a Neo (or other mastiff breed), athletic and "game" like and APBT (or other bully breed).

Seems to me that if you wanted a breed that would be the ultimate proctection dog that is wary/proctective you would just go ahead and get an RR. The Rhodesian Ridgeback is such a breed. Originally bred to be able to withstand the harsh enviromental changes in the African veldt, proctect the farm & family from the dangers of wild African animals, assist in the hunt by keeping the wild animals at [b] bay [/b]since the hunter had to get dangerously close to the prey, ie. lions, etc. while being a completely loyal companion to the families children.


:nono: Timbos13: If you pay attention to the first pictures in the top-left it appears that those dogs are being encouraged, if not trained to fight, which gives me the impression this CROSS-BREED [b]is not [/b]being bred to be a protective family companion. This new cross-breed is not necessary.

There are enough breeds in the world to optain the characteristics anyone could want in a Working, Sporting, Non-Sporting, Herding, or Companion dog why do more cross-breeding, and there are plenty of breeds that can Work, Hunt and Herd and still be a great companion.

:angel:

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Guest Anonymous

Rosebud, you are so right! (and Ridgebacks are COOL dogs!)

There are many versitile dogs in the working group. The important thing if you are looking for protection or protection sport is to find a reputable breeder that breeds dogs with the standard, both in temperment and conformity, in mind. And breeds from lines with PROVEN working ability. And then TRAIN! You can never count on a dog to protect you because of it's breed. They must have the proper temperment to begin with and then must be trained. Sure, my dogs a rottweiler, and he'll bark, growl etc. if there is activity outside. But, I'd bet my bottom dollar he would NOT protect me in the least. That's because he does not have the proper temperment.

I'd take a well bred rottweiler, pit bull, GSD, Presa, Dobe etc. for these purposes any day. And hope to at some point.

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:P Thanks Jamie,

And you are also so right! Doesn't matter with the breed, it's in the temperament.

First point, a bitch is supposed to be naturally more apt to protect the family. Well, my bitch RR would probably tuck tail and run, well she might actually do something if someone was actually physically hurting me.

My boy RR on the other hand would not let you near me IF your intentions were to hurt me. He proved that at 4 1/2 months old when he insisted we leave the park because there was something in the trees he didn't want me near. He is a very social, friendly, loves children even when dressed up for Halloween boy, doesn't have an enemy in the world, ........... unless you want to hurt MaMa.


:angel:

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Guest Anonymous

Bandogs were bred by a vet with the name of either swinson or swinford, think swinson, in order to create the new "ultimate" fighting dog. He thought if he could take the qualities of the APBT with the size of a mastiff he would get a better fighter. He took a high quality male mastiff and bred it to a high quality APBT bitch. He found he was wrong. Whenever an APBT is crossed with any other breed you loose much of the qualities that make the APBT so wonderful. You will end up with a dog not as stable as the APBT.
The APBT is already the most perfect, beautiful, stable breed. Why breed cur pups when you can have the real thing. Bulldogs should NEVER be crossed with another breed!!!

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Timbos13,

:onfire:

[b]You asked for our opinions and you got them![/b]

It seems that the vast majority think that there are enough dog breeds in the world that we don't need yet another one, especially one that could become a target of dog-fighters to breed for the sole-purpose of fighting.
If that is what you intend to do then I feel for you, your dogs and your soul.

If you just want a bigger version of the pit then breed oversized pits to each other, you [u]will[/u] get bigger but you [u]will fall out[/u] of the long agreed upon by obvious experts opinion [u]of the breed's standard[/u] and once people start deviating from a breed's standard the breed existence will be in danger.

I am sorry that you did not like our opinion on the matter but the truth is why create another breed when there are more than needed in the world today, and that's not including the accidental cross-breedings.

And it will take more than 10 years for the breed to be accepted as a new breed. The Ridgeback breed was defined and perfected back in the early 1800's and still was not accepted until the mid 1900's. That's over a [b]100 years [/b]of breeding. I believe that your new breed will end up either being a [b]fad[/b] or be breed only to fight. I don't see how it can better either breed involved.

[b]But that's just my OPINION![/b]

:angel:

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Guest Anonymous

GREAT!! Another idiot breeding currs for one thing... MONEY. That kind of thing really p!sses me off. Especially since you will be RUINING my breed. I wish you would smarten up and realize what you are attempting to do.

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The problem with getting a dog from a known "working" breed is that most have already been completely ruined by BYBs and people breeding only for conformation. Look at GSDs... Rotties... Dobies.... all BYB'ed or bred so much for "correctness" here in the US that it's hard to find a decent one without having it imported. And if you wanted a "bully looking" mastiff, like the presa or cane corso, you'd also have to search carefully for a decent breeder in the US (a lot of them use imported dogs anyway). So there isn't a huge abundance of working quality dogs in the US, but there are some if people take the time to look and do research.

The main argument I've heard for these dogs is that no other dog has the gameness of an APBT, and most other dogs (even trained protection dogs) have enough self preservation instinct that they'll bail out of a conflict when things get too tough. So they figure that in crossing a gamebred APBT with a mastiff, some of the pups will get the gameness of their ancestors. Whether or not that holds true is questionable. And while they were originally bred to be fighters (as Hmmm said), they are now used mainly as protection dogs, not as fighters (which makes sense, considering that they couldn't hold their own against the APBT). Also, a lot of the dogs bred today are not bred in the same way as the Swinford dogs were, he died(I think?) before he had the crosses the way he wanted them, and people use different "formulas" for breeding them today.

And in 10 yrs, bandogs won't be in places where APBTs have been banned... because they're [b]part[/b] APBT, and as such will be included in the definition of a "pit bull" for BSL purposes. They'll be banned just as any other pit bull mix (or presa mix, for that matter, since Presas are being banned in some areas as well). And the more breeders who start to wants to breed bandogs, the worse off the "breed" (and those breeds used to create it) will become. When these dogs make their way into the homes of irresponsible people, the "average" dog owner, there will be more attacks from them than there [b]ever[/b] have been by "pit bulls"... but of course the "pit bull" will bear the brunt of the attacks. timbos13, you seem to be only interested in having a dog that looks good and "is big and strong", but you fail to realize that crossing an APBT with another breed can and often does take away the bite inhibition that the APBT breed is famous for. That, coupled with this new "breed"s strength and size will create a dog that will be dangerous in the hands of anyone except an experienced dog owner, willing to be responsible and overly cautious with their dog. Not to mention that in crossing the APBT with the presa, or neo, you increae the chances of the pups having health problems that are prevelant in those breeds.

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Great posts everyone not much i can add here except. TIMWHATEVER can't afford a good stock animal tostart his own kennel and doesn't have the knowledge to improve any breed. so timwhateveritsnameis will jump on the band wagon of BYB making a buck. and fufill whatever is lacking in his/her selfesteem, self image, misdirected mind. JMHO which you ASKED for.

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