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PETA's approach to bull breeds


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

I was wondering if anyone here has heard of what Ingrid Newkirk (PETA President) said about the wonderful bull breeds. If you have, then you obviously know she dislikes them. If you haven't, then here is the website in which I found this information on.

[url]http://www.pitbullregistry.com/PETA%20letter.htm[/url]

If there are any PETA people here that I may have offended, I am very sorry. Offending you wasn't my goal. My only goal is to make people aware of what they did say.

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Guest Anonymous

Sorry lucky, I'm somewhat confused. Are you saying the makers of the site are wrong or that PETA is wrong. I'm anti-PETA myself but if you are with them then I respect you.

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I am for low kill shelters where only dogs who are very sick or unadoptable are humanely euthanized. I do not think it is good to euthanize every bully breed brought to a shelter but former pit dogs can rarely be rehab'd to make good family pets, if they can great, they should be. Dogs that cannot be safely placed cannot be housed indefinately in shelters, its inhumane (very few shelters are a humane living conditions for even short periods of time) so they have to be euthanized. Many of them do happen to be bully breeds but the same rule is or should be applied to all breeds.

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I stongly dissagree that every pit bull that comes into a shelter should be put down. I think that EVERY breed, no matter what, should undergo those temperment tests that they put them through to evaluate whether or not they could be good pets or not. If not, nomatter the breed, they should probably put them down. Unless, like let's say that the dog didn't like children. They might be able to find a good home for those sorts of dogs. You know?? But if the dog has serious problems with people I think it should be put down. Best for the dog and people too.

It's kinda hard to explain all this... but I think you all get the drift, eh??

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ANY dog that proves itself unstable towards people, through THOROUGH
personality testing and evaluation, should be put down. Doesnt matter what the breed; I've known of poodles that had to be PTS because they
were unstable. Any dog can become unstable..There are stories of Golden Retrievers turning on children, and they are known to be "completely safe around kids".

Each dog needs to be evaluated individually, that's one of the things I hate about "Breed Standards" - everyone believes them to be true for every dog.

APBT's have a bad name, because of what people have used them for, and if they were fighters the odds are good they may not make good pets. BUT not every APBT in a shelter was a fighter, and they all need to be evaluated without the mindset that "It's a Pit Bull, we cant save it".

My neighbors have a APBT and a BC - they get along fine. so they're not all nasty vicious killing machines....

:evil:

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Guest Anonymous

Any healthy, non-human aggressive pit bull should be given a honest and genuine chance to be adopted by a loving person/family. Euthanization based on breed because of assumed aggression is irresponsible.

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I work for a shelter where Bully breeds are automatically euthanized. We are allowed to release them (after we spay or neuter them) to rescues, but no rescues in my area will take them. Most of the ones we get are sweet, lick-your-face wigglebutts. We do get the aggressive one in every once in a while, but that's rare. Usually they are licking your face while you euthanize them, I've had several do that to me.

I tried to save one, a sweet little brindle girl, but she began to get aggressive with my own dogs and as I had to rescue to send her to I had to put her down. She'd been abandoned by her owner and brought to our shelter. I fattened her up in hopes of rehoming her on my own, but it didn't work. There is a picture if her on my website in my euthanized animals page, her name was Kai.

We've managed to save a few pit bulls and american bulldogs, but most go the way of the needle. I never understood how you can sell pit bulls in the local newspaper (and I'm sure some WILL be fought because the ones around here are not likely to screen homes) that are intact, yet we cannot adopt out vaccinated and altered pit bulls to screened homes. It just doesn't make sense at all.

I do hope to one day have my own pit bull, but Ohio is very anti-pit bull it seems, plus I do not have my own house yet (good luck renting around here with a pit bull) and I can't afford the insurance yet. I know that when I get my pit bull it will be one from a shelter/rescue.

I'd be thrilled to find a pit bull friendly rescue around here because I'm tired of killing the nice ones simply because they happened to be born the "wrong" breed. We put down a sweet 7 month old male a couple weeks ago - the guy's wife found out that it was a pit bull and demanded he "get rid of it". No one would take the dog so he had no choice but to bring him to us for euthanasia, he was a truly nice dog.

Most of the people I work with love pit bulls and don't see anything "wrong" with them, but current laws here prevent us from adopting them out. I do not agree with that at all. We have to put down a 6 month old Lab mix tomorrow that is very people (and dog for that matter) aggressive - he nearly got me today. That dog is much more aggressive than the majority of pit bulls I see.

So sad for that breed. I'm completely against BSL because I just know that it will only get the responsible pit owners. The dog fighters aren't going to care if pit bulls are against the law, they are already breaking the law.

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Guest Anonymous

Shows how hypocritical PETA is. :grab:

courtnek "APBT's have a bad name, because of what people have used them for, and if they were fighters the odds are good they may not make good pets."
This is one of those statements so many people believe but it is so far from the truth. The only way they wont make a good pet is if you have another dog. I have had experiences with several breeds- none as much as the APBT- but I havent seen one breed be more stable as a family pet as a gamebred APBT. Gamebred bulldogs are the only breed that has been specifically bred NOT to be people aggressive. People biters are most commonly culled. Not one of my dogs has ever bitten anyone. And every one of them is gamebred. None of my house dogs have ever bitten anyone- and they have all been APBTs.
It is so sad how misunderstood this breed is.

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A dog aggressive dog does not make a good family pet wether you have another dog or not. Most potential dog owners are not prepared to handle dog aggression. It is no more acceptable for a pit bred dog to kill another family pet (owners or otherwise) then for it to kill a family member (for most pet owners their pets are family)

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Guest Anonymous

DogPaddle "It is no more acceptable for a pit bred dog to kill another family pet (owners or otherwise) then for it to kill a family member (for most pet owners their pets are family)"
ARE YOU SICK??!! or just :drinking:
I think I would find it much more acceptable for my dog to kill my cat other than my niece!
A dog being dog aggressive has nothing to do with how it will be towards people. And a gamebred APBT will be dog aggressive. THERFORE they would not make a good family pet if the family has other dogs.

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Guest Anonymous

Hi, i am new to the board and thought this would be a fine place to start. I read what "Hmmm" wrote and have a question for him/her. First, what do you consider a "Gamebred Pit"? And second, what would one do with one? My pits are rescues. I personally dislike PETA and i walk my pits in front of their headquarters in Norfolk every weekend get. I find it amusing to see the reactions!

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No Hmmm I am not sick or drinking, I just happen to value the lives of the pet members of my family and it I would have zero acceptability for some dog killing my dog just as I have zero acceptability for a dog killing any other memeber of my family. I guess it just comes down to ZERO acceptability. Here's a comparison for you there is this criminal he is a killer but he only kills shoplifters. Now granted, IF I HAD to choose between a law-abiding citizen and a shoplifter being killed I would choose the shoplifter for death BUT NEITHER OPTION IS ACCEPTABLE! And that killer cannot be allowed to kill.

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Guest Anonymous

There is one very important thing that should be said as well, a good number of dogs that are rescued are also of a questionable background and a vicious upbringing. We all know the horror that would-be dogmen put thier dogs through in an effort to make them "bettter fighters", the beatings, the feeding of small dogs and cats, the feeding of various things(gunpowder, red peppers) and many other things i wdont even want to think of. A lot of thse dogs are very VERY unstable and unpredictable. Nowi think that the dogs should be given a chance tested with people, food, and animal agressions and then if tey are beyond help euthanized. but that takes time, patience, and man power than most places cant front. So instead of placing a possible threat or a dog that will be returned later the kill them all. I am in NO WAY APPROVING PETA, i hate everything about them. But I am a realist and in that i can see both sides of a conflict. Where are the dog lovers are more interested in giving a few good dogs a second chance, when you are dealing with the numbers its a gamble and they dont want to play the game.

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I agree with u too RnP.

If pits that were fought are in family homes, than Hustan we have a problem. I don't agree that u should automatically put down EVERY pit but ones that were/are fighters should be put down. It's safer for people, other pets, and well... the whole world. My Lab is Dog-aggressive... but she's wasn't TRAINED to be aggressive, so she's a great family dog. But, dogs that were TRAINED to be aggressive are another story. Like someone said, they train these dogs by setting them after cats, dogs, birds, rabbits, and HUMANS too. It's not safe.

By the way, does anyone know a good website that I can get more info on PETA and their phylosophies??? Just wonderin how ridiculous they really are.

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[quote]If pits that were fought are in family homes, than Hustan we have a problem.[/quote]
Here's a pit that was fought, and is currently in a family home.... doesn't look to be too problematic, does she???
[img]http://seemesmile.com/photos4/2373982a.jpg[/img]

My point is that you can't automatically assume that just because a dog has been/is fought, it is a danger to all people/animals. They need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, with only those most suitable for adoption (keeping in mind that most potential adopters aren't going to want a dog with a lot of "issues" that they'll have to work through) being put up for adoption/sent to rescues. That won't save a lot of them, but it's the best that can be done since not many people can handle a high drive, energetic, strong dog with a high possibility for animal aggression.

[quote]But, dogs that were TRAINED to be aggressive are another story. Like someone said, they train these dogs by setting them after cats, dogs, birds, rabbits, and HUMANS too.[/quote]
Anyone who knows anything about pit bulls, nevermind about getting one to fight, knows that they don't need to be "trained" to fight. The desire to fight is an inborn characteristic... the dogs either have it or they don't (of course, some may have more desire than others). And since this desire to fight is inborn, it needs no encouragement (though that may make it more pronounced). Furthermore, pit bulls are such superior fighters that it's pointless to set a pit bull on a cat, bird, rabbit, or dog of another breed; as these animals will not put up anywhere near the same fight as another pit bull, so nothing will have been accomplished by doing so. It's also completely absurd to set a pit bull you want to fight on a human... as there are always humans in and around the pit when the dogs are fighting.

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Guest Anonymous

Alll very valid points but you are thinking in the mindset of someone who knows the game. You have to think about the types of people that will be using thier dogs and then discarding them to a rescue are not usual yht etypes that are overly nurturing or educated about the breed. so they think that letting thier dogs kill smaller animals and other dogs actually does help it. They want thier dogs to "taste blood", for some unknown reason they believe it makes them better fighters to kill a few things.

Another good point to an APBT fighting is a self rewarding event. they love to do it, when they are fighting their tails actually are waggin most of the time. which is why preventing the first fight is the best thing you can do. kind of like diggin in the trash, once they figure out that there is good stuff in there they keep going back. Its hard to take a dog that is a fighter and to just stop it, the dog will always attempt to go back to fighting and even in cases where the dogs does settle down and can be in proximity of another dog it had better be of the opposite sex and they can NEVER be trusted alone..... EVER.

Back to the topic though, the people that are predominantly involved in dog-fighting are a very secretive bunch that is very strict to rules guidelines and the company they keep. so odds are the people that are losing thier dogs to rescues are trying to perpetuate what they have seen or heard of for money or other monetary gains. Some of the training tactics they use can and do often involve people not th dogs going for the people the people beating the dogs with sticks, building the level of aggression to people and a huge distrust of strangers. they mistake aggression for fighting ability.

there is lot of problems that these poor babies bring to the table and like you said most people dont want to deal with it, or worse yet, they cant but they want to try so they can have a bad-ass fighting dog.

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o.k.....admittedly, the pit is a breed that DOES have a genetic predisposition. And while the overall outcome of the dog's demeanor DOES hinge on informed and competent ownership, knowing that your pit has that predilection, is PART of being a good owner. it's why you try not to have two males, it's why you don't let them run free all over town, it's why you watch their demeanor BEFORE you go into PetCo, and maybe make the decision that today's not the best day to go in.

but that's what we're talking about here....it IS genetic....if the people who started fighting pits 80 (or whatever) years ago had said "hey, i really think blueticks would make a good fighting dog" then we'd be talking about banning blueticks now. These breeders don't breed the docile ones....they bred the fighters to more fighters, and bred those resultant puppies to even better fighters. The same could have been done with ANY breed. Hell, if i wanted to start a breed of bloodthirsty Papillons starting today, i could start breeding heel nippers and have a bunch of fluffy killers in a couple of generations.

the point is.....it's not the BREED that made itself this way, it was MAN. Man is a high-and-mighty creature. And the one thing man is not good at is admitting mistakes. Pit bulls are not evil...they aren't born with a propensity to kill.....raised by calm, loving owners, pit bulls are sweet, loving, trusting, and loyal. My own 2 year old nephew will spend an hour slapping my poor pit in the face....who in turn squints his eyes and looks lovingly at the little boy. My pit spends all day, cuddling his kitten, and babysitting finches. it IS how you raise them.

and to think that ALL pit bulls are put to sleep in the shelters that were made to protect them. to think that even those holier-than-though organizations (PETA) that espouse free love to all animals have turned their backs on the breed....that turns my stomach. The point is, there are docile pits. there ARE sweet, loving members of the breed that want to bite into nothing more than a pizzle.....i can't even find the words to say how this troubles me.

and while everyone wants to start pointing their fingers at drug dealers as owners. murderers as owners. criminals as owners.....does this not tell us something? drug dealers? murderers? criminals? if we want to start profiling, lets just say that these PEOPLE...these criminals. these drug dealers....lets say these people are so different from the rest of the HUMAN BREED that they can't be trusted with small children, they can't be left alone to run free without supervision, they're too genetically programmed to kill....hell...let's gas them. come on people! man made the pit what it is. now it's our turn to fix it.....but then, it is man's habit to turn its back on his own mistakes :evil:

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Guest Anonymous

Much of waht you said has vlalidity except that the dogs are nt born with the predisposition to kill. well put more accurately its a predisposition to fight to the death. THey are its the dogs nature its like saying retrievers arent born with a predisposition to retrieve or that greyhounds are born with a predisposition to run, its the nature of the dog. They are not people-aggressive that cant be stressed enough. A well bred pitbull will leteraly let you about kill it before it would try to bite a human. they are excellent at family dogs. they can take torture and abuse from children and not even wince, i have seen full grown dogs picked up and held at arms lenght by thier scruffs and just sit there without a sound. Its somehting that was also bred into them along with the will to fight.

Now you say your dog is sweet i totally believe it, there are even dogs that will tolerate dogs they grew up with but when it comes to strange dogs its a given that all pit bull owners know, YOUR DOG WILL FIGHT, and if you dont step in and stop it YOUR DOG WILL KILL. Its not hier faults i totally agree the amount of power and tenacity these dogs hold they are so blissfully unaware of it. This is what makes them such great dogs. To assume that your dog because ofhow you raise dwill absolutely never have an incident is dangerous, but how you raise and train can definately help your dog to deal with those drives better. I was just reading on another board a guy had a male pit and a male rottie, left them alone together while he went to the store for a minute they had grown up together and had never had so much as a scuffle. For whatever reason when he returned he found the pitbull at the door covered in blood and wagging its tail, the house was all torn up and the rottie was laying in the kitchen. And these are dogs that he described as best friends. He wasnt a dog fighter he just had two dogs and thought that it was all in how you raise them. Its quite sobering to know that your dog and best friend has the power, capability, and drive to kill another dog. and yet loves you to the ends of the earth and back for that matter any person it meets it loves. friends and strangers alike which is why they suck so bad at being guard dogs. I just think that people need to know the good, the bad, and the ugly about any dog before they commit themselves.

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Guest Anonymous

It is all about adopting them out to the RIGHT people not the wrong people and by wrong people I do not mean the macho types or gangstas or whatever I mean Humaniacs I mean normal people who want a lab or a golden retriever and decide to get the "pitbull" instead those are the wrong people. Why? Becasue they know absolutely nothing about the breed and they will think that since the dog seems friendly with all animals know that it will always be that way and they will belive "It is all in how you raise them' when in fact it is not. Those same people will find out one day after they return from the store and find their other animals dead or dying and the "pitbull" covered in blood wagging it's tail that it is not all in how you raise them but guess what now they will think that the dog was fie untill one day it just went crazy. They will spread the lie and rumor that one day they just snapped when in fact they should have known all along not to trust them not to fight. The "pitbull" will also suffer as the owner will know think that one day the dog will "snap" and turn on her or her children she will not understand that dog aggression and human aggression are not one in the same.
Hmmm is right Gamebred dogs are more trustworthy than others why? Because they have been bred specifically NOT to bite people even while in extreme pain. You could not say the same thing about your other breeds of dogs or even showbreds (although a showbred Apbt would be less likely to bite than another breed of dog in pain Gamebreds are the only ones still being specifically bred for this trait).
The dogs at the pound who have been fed gun powder and have been bait dogs etc.. are more than likely Backyard bred not Gamebred. Yes Bacyard bred dogs are dangerouse in my opinion as they are MORE likely to bite a human because a lot of BYB"S tend to think that the meaner the dog (to humans and animals)the " Gamer" the dog is(which is totally untrue). Potential Apbt adopters should have to take a class about the breed before attempting to adopt one and subjects that should be covered are
Never trust a bulldog(Apbt) not to fight this should include a breif history of the breed and it's traits,how to use a breaking stick etc..
Prejudice against the breed and debunking myths(and why not to belive all your relatives who will say that your new friend will turn on you one day when their brain swell lol)
What not to do with an Apbt(Dog parks,off leash,outside of stores tied to a pole etc..)
And of course basic dog care,training,socialization excersize etc..

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Guest Anonymous

Oh I forgot to add the reason why you see so many BYB pups getting sold and so many Apbt's dying in the shelters.
Most of the people adopting dogs from shelters have been brainwashed by the media about the breed and are very biased before they ever set foot in the shelter.
People specifically looking to adopt Apbt's usually go through Apbt rescue groups.
Bad or irresponsible owners are usually turned away at the shelter whereas BYB's will sell a pup to anyone.

Also Many shelters have adoption fees at around $70 or more and BYB's usually price their pups at around $100-$150 and some even have papers(even though they are hung). So why would the idots go to a shelter and pay $70 for an altered dog and have to worry about getting ahomecheck periodically by humane investigators when they can go out and buy a "purebred" intact puppy possibly with papers from a BYB with no strings attached and hey they can even make some money when it grows up and comes in heat(yes idiots usually breed them, on their first heat) and hey when it can no longer have puppies they can always dump it at the shelter and keep breeding the pups that they kept from him/her. No I do not think it is right but guess what it is reality that is what happens. The shelter knows that if they adopt Apbt's out to those kind of people that there is a 99% chance that they will once again end up with the dog when the owners get tired of it so it is better to put the dog down than allow it to be bounced around again and again throughout it's life.

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