Future Pit Bull owners please educate yourself

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

[quote name='jmouton']i tell you what when i found this site i thought hmm this is a neat site and ill try it out but i tell you what ive realized i made a mistake so far all ive met is uppity people who think they know everything. as far as the puppies go, i knew my dogs had good temperment or i wouldnt have bred her. if the people that got puppies from us ever want to get rid of them we have already told them they are to give them back to us. no my pits are not registered but it doesnt matter to me. you people are so caught up in making sure everything is done just this way or that way. we bred our pit once and thats it we got eight puppies from her. where i come from it is very hard to come by pits. and i dont know about any other pit owners but i know i would not want a pit unless i could raise it from a puppy around my kids. so you know what get off my butt. yes i might be ignorant to your standards of breeding and dogs, but i am a normal pet owner unlike yall who i guess are so caught up in preaching to everyone else who doesnt do like you. this site is a joke and i dont think i will come back, it is not for everyone it is just for stuck up people who need to get a life. so thats all im gonna say. as far as one of you who is an administrator this site out to be ashamed to have someone like you doing anything on it. i know my pits have good homes and thats all that matters so all you freaks can just chill out and go find someone else to badger with you stupid ideals. you all just really p*** me off.[/quote]


Ok then bye! :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Newfiemom as always I love the way you think! :wink:
Laduenda good post..I hope everything is well with your dogs (not meant sarcastic meant with hopes for the best)..

These dogs should not have been bred that is a fact. There are so many dying everyday in shelters, homes, fighting pits, and etc.. why should we as humans produce more to suffer.. There are several reputable breeders out there who have been doing this years..who know the breed, the defects, and live to better these animals..
I have no doubt you help dogs in need. But producing pups to add to the number already out there... Help the ones that are "curs" or fighting rejects... The ones starving, beaten, or whatever the case.
Puppies need that time with their mother and siblings. They learn how to interact with other dogs, what is acceptable play(nipping), and they still need time with mom.
There is so much more to breeding than throwing 2 dogs together. You could have lost your female, the pups could have gotten parvo, the male could have burcellious, pups could have genetic problems (and you cannot even SEE these problems), joint problems, eye problems, and all of these can and do run in the APBT. So think of the heartbreak for a family with a pup they have to put to sleep because it is carrying a genetic disease that you did not even know to check for. Hindsight is 20/20 but very hard to explain to a child or a family who lost a pet when you did not do something that should have been done.



Hmmm I am not even going to comment.

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

Hi Jacsmom and Sash! :D :D :D

Why don't you stay and have a :drinking: with me? Please? :D I missed you both! :bigcry:

[Kiger]

I agree with RusBulls..I mean Roo. :wink: :D

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

[quote name='Kiger']I agree with RusBulls..I mean Roo. :wink: :D[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

RusBulls? What? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

yes i know i said i wasnt going to come back but its an addiction i guess. for everyone's information, both my male and female were checked out by my vet before we bred them. and hmmm this is not your breed, you may own some you may breed some but they are everyone's breed. as for backyard breeding i still believe i did nothing wrong. in our town you cannot adopt a pit from the shelter, they dont allow it and most people that want a pit for a pet cannot afford to go to a high price breeder. we know the people that got our puppies and we know they will not fight them, that was our biggest concern when we were trying to find good homes for our puppies. i think some of yall could have been a little bit nicer and maybe you could have educated me before you put me down and called me irresponsible. i am a good pet owner i take very and i do mean very good care of my pets, i have seen people who abuse and mistreat there pets and i consider them irresponsible pet owners, i have seen people who keep there pets chained or penned all the time and i consider them irresponsible pet owners, i also see people that let there pets run the roads loose and get into the highway i consider them irresponsible pet owners. my pets are kept in a huge fenced in yard with a family that loves them beyone words. they are thought of as our children. yes i breeded my pit when other dogs are dying but i knew before we breeded her that a lot of people wanted puppies but had no where to get them. so please get off my back and hmmm get a life.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, I do consider APBTs my breed. If I owned a different breed I would consider them mine as well. I care deeply about this breed and care about idiots out there ruining them.
I do have a life. A very good one at that. Dont get upset just because I know how APBTs should be bred and you do not. Dont get upset because someone who makes a very good living from knowing how to breed these dogs knows you have no idea about the breed you are trying to breed.

Its great you take care of your animals but it is much bigger than just your pets. You should be taking care of the breed. You are adding to the problem instead of helping it.

You think it is better to be given a BYB dog than to buy a quality dog that has been well-bred, vet checked... I think that is ridiculous. You can find quality dogs for a resonable price. Some breeders will GIVE away a good dog if they know it is going to a good home. I have, and I can sell mine for thousands of dollars each.
I dont breed a dog just because my buddies want one. I dont breed just because a bitch comes in heat. I breed when I find a suitable male that will bring out or strengthen the characteristics that are supposed to be in the APBT. I breed to keep the breed the way it is and improve my kennel. You wont find any of my dogs in the pound/shelter, running loose, or adding to the bite stats. That is one thing I can guarantee. Do you think you can say the same? Well, no, you cant. You already bred supposedly becasue you buddies wanted dogs. You already TRADED pups so you can again breed to your "mama" dog. And you say you are responsible, come on!!!

[Guest Anonymous]

I have just one more question...
On another reply you said you have 3 dogs. An English Mastiff was the breed you named for one of them. On yet another reply you said you have a pit/boxer mix. On this one you said you have a female and male APBT.
That makes 4 dogs. So which is it? 3 or 4?

[Guest Anonymous]

i have three dogs, as i said before we no longer have the mama pit because we were going to lose our house insurance. we have an english mastiff, a bull mastiff and a pit/boxer mix, she can pass as a boxer that is why we can keep her.

[Guest Anonymous]

Jm..A vet cannot look into the eyes and see potential eye problems that will be passed on to pups. More the reason for CERF. The same goes for hip and elbow problems. This the reason for OFA. The high price or a good reputable breeder is well worth it.. Worth the security.. Worth driving a long distance for..Worth everything..

I am going to assume one of the reasons that you cannot adopt a APBT at your shelter is going to be the fact that they are considered or are agressive(from fighting or no socialization) and therefore not "adoption material". They do not adopt them out at my shelter either but I can pick up the paper and there are at LEAST 25 ads for them. So that means at least 75+ will be PTS within 3yrs.. :-? SO my question is did you happen to do spay/neuter contracts on this past litter.. So that no other APBT's end up being PTS in the shelter? Not the pups your bitch had but the pups that will be had by your litter. Did you microchip your pups so that if they happen to end up in a shelter they will not be put down but someone will call you? Did you do home checks of each persons house and yard? Not just once but twice or 3 times even after the pups got there..


[quote]Dont get upset because someone who makes a very good living from knowing how to breed these dogs [/quote] :roll:

Who cares how many dogs .. I personally would just rather not see any more APBT's killed in a shelter, in a pit, on the news for a mauling, or etc..

[Guest Anonymous]

So you are losing insurance over the APBT?? What about the people who took the puppies? What if they decide not to keep them...Where will they go now? :-? Majority of the time they do not come to your home for insurance purposes so I am guessing something happened for them to know your pit/boxer mix looks like a boxer...

[Guest Anonymous]

no nothing happened to where my insurance people came out here, what happened is the people we rent this house from knew that we had pits and had no problem with it. then they were going over there insurance papers or something and noticed the clause in it that said that if pits, rotweillers(i know i spelled that wrong) and one other type of dog was in the yard the insurance would be cancelled. as for the microchip being implanted in the puppies, ive never heard of that before but i wish i had. i would have liked to have done that. like i said the people we gave our puppies to agreed that if they decided to get rid of the puppies we would get them back. i know it was just a verbal agreement and means nothing to yall but its all we have. as far as the people who got puppies, i know at least half said they were going to get them neutered or spayed. if they do i dont know we'll see. i know im taking my boxer/pit to get spayed next friday. i can't spay my english mastiff because we have an agreement with the person we bought him from that we will not breed him at all and that he can come get him whenever he likes and take him for stud services. and we get nothing out of the deal but we dont mind. as for my bull mastiff she is still a puppy but as soon as she has her first heat she will also be spayed. i do believe in spaying and neutering dogs. my neighbors dog had 2 litters of puppies a year for 3 or 4 years before she finally got her spayed and it really bothered me that they would not pen her or make it to where other dogs could not get to her when she was in heat. our female dogs when in heat are seperated from all other dogs, they only get pregnant if we want them to. well i guess thats all for now. so yall see im not as irresponsible as you think.

[Guest Anonymous]

i didnt know it was better to spay before the first heat, we were always told to do it after. thanks. we waited for our pit/boxer to have her first heat thats why we are doing it friday cause she came out of heat a couple of weeks ago. if you dont mind my asking what is the difference? ive heard that if you do it before there first heat it would stunt there growth.

[Barbiro]

[quote name='jmouton']i didnt know it was better to spay before the first heat, we were always told to do it after.[/quote]

First rule of thumb if your goal is to be a professional breeder: LEARN ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ABOUT THE BREEDING SCENARIO IN ALL ASPECTS -- and then -- DON'T BREED. There are way too many pets (including purebreeds) needing a home at shelters, that are euthanized every year because they don't have a home. Please seriously consider adoption and spaying your females. Do it for the love of the breed and the pets.

[Guest Anonymous]

thanks for the info on spaying. ill make an appt for my puppy. she is about 10 wks old. i talked to my husband about it last night and he said that our vet recommended to him that the dogs have at least one heat before getting them spayed. but ill let him read this and if the vet will do it we will make an appt. when i made appt for my pit/boxer mix the vet asked if she had had her first heat yet. so we'll see.

[Guest roo]

K, I dont know where JMouton lives but in the UK, MOST vets will not
spay untill the first season has been had and then normally around 3 months after season. Maybe JM lives in the UK!

[Guest roo]

:lol: yes, sorry half asleep here :oops:

There still are a few pits here you know, i mean unregistered ones :o

[Guest roo]

Mostly they are either large staffs :lol:
or staff crosses :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

i live in texas. my vet clinic has an older vet and a younger one. it really depends on what day ya go on who ya get. but the older one trained the younger one, so i dont know but i will ask when i go friday. thanks

[gooeydog]

I'm a little late on all this stuff, but just have to add a few things...

[quote]where i come from it is very hard to come by pits[/quote]
That's a little hard to believe considering that you live in the same state as one of the largest (it may be THE largest, I'm not sure) independent pit bull rescue groups in the entire US. I also know of several reputable breeders in Texas, and judging by the number of pit bulls listed on numerous rescue sites, there is no lack of pit bulls where you live.

[quote] for everyone's information, both my male and female were checked out by my vet before we bred them.[/quote]
That's great, but unfortunately doesn't mean sh*t as to whether your dog is carrying/has an inherited disease. I know a dog who was checked numerous times by a vet when she was between 8 months and 12 months old.... everything looked great. At 15 months old, she was diagnosed with diabetes... a disease that can be (and in her case it seems it likely was, as there were no other apparent catalysts) inherited. A few months after that, she began to show signs of allergies... another inherited health problem. She was probably from the same type of breeder (like it or not, that's what you are) as you, the type who thought it would be great to breed their dog, have some "cute" pups, and make a little cash off the deal.

The issues of "trading" and of selling underage pups have already been discussed, so I don't have much to say about that. I would like to add though that the person who had the dog mentioned above was a friend of our family, and that we ended up getting the dog because she was neglected almost to the point of death.

[JackieMaya]

I have never bred dogs, nor have I ever wanted to, but as I've been around dogs all my life, I do know the difference between a reputable breeder and a backyard (i.e. irresponsible) breeder.

JMoutan has definitely gotten a good education here from all the knowledgeable dog owners on this site, and hopefully he/she will take all the well-meaning advice to heart and not ever breed again.

I think this site is great, and I know I've learned a lot here too! :thumbs:

[JackieMaya]

I copied this from a thead in the Breeding message board, and I think that it's appropriate to post in this thread too.

[color=blue]For all those backyard breeders and puppy millers out there


THE BACK YARD BREEDERS & PUPPY MILLERS BIG OLD BOOK OF EXCUSES

1. When called on bad breeding practices, ALWAYS claim that you are merely an innocent posting as a favor to a friend or family member.

2. Point out that everybody you know breeds this way, therefore it must be
okay.

3. Claim that "snobby show breeders" are only criticizing you because they
want to corner the market on puppy profit.

4. Claim that a Champion in the pedigree is just as good as 56 Champions in the pedigree. Not that it matters, because you doubt that there is such a
thing as a dog with 56 champions in the pedigree.

5. Claim that you are just trying to produce good pets, therefore good pets
are all you need for breeding.

6. When asked about health testing, enthusiastically point out that your
bitch had a health checkup before breeding.

7. Be sure to mention that you do not need to run such health tests as OFA,
CERF, thyroid, cardiac, patellae, etc., because your dogs look healthy and
had no visible problems at their last vet checkup.

8. Point out that these tests cost too much and would cut into your profit
margin. Be sure to champion the right of poor people to breed dogs.

9. Confidently assure worried rescuers that no puppy you produce, or any of
their puppies or grand puppies or great-grandpuppies will end up in shelters
because you have a bunch of friends who have told you that they'd like a pup
from your bitch.

10. Point out that you don't need Championships or working titles on your
dogs because you are breeding for temperament and your dog is really sweet.

11. Silence those annoying people who ask about your health guarantee by
assuring them that buyers can return any sick puppies and you will replace
it with another pup as long as it got sick within a certain amount of time
of sale and as long as you don't think the buyer did something to make the
puppy sick.

12. If your breed or line is rare (or you have a "rare" color, or believe
your breed or color is rare), be sure to remind everyone that you do not
need to show, temperament test, or health test your breeding stock because
you are doing the world a service by continuing this "rare" breed/color/line.

13. No matter what anyone else says, claim that you obviously know what you are doing because you've been breeding for a long time. Point to the
hundreds of puppies you've pumped out over the years as proof.

14. If this is your first attempt at breeding, make sure to remind everyone
that you HAVE to breed your dog because how else are you going to learn how to breed?

15. Assure everyone that your dog does not need to be shown because you were assured by someone at Petsmart/the park/the vet's office/a friend that your dog is a perfect example of the breed.

16. Always remember that "rare" colors, oversized or undersized dogs, and
mixes of popular breeds are great selling points. Anyone who doesn't think
so is obviously not in tune with their customers' wishes.

17. Claim that your dogs are better because they are not inbred, as
inbreeding obviously produces sick/stupid/deformed dogs. If breeding poo [as in "Cock-a-Poo," "Peek-a-Poo," etc.] dogs or other mutts, always point to "hybrid vigor" as proof of your dogs' superiority.

18. Remind everyone that you do not need a waiting list because your puppies are cute.

19. Assure everyone that your puppies will not end up in shelters because
they are cute.

20. Claim that YOUR breed never ends up in shelters in your area, therefore
your puppies will never end up in shelters.

21. If asked why you think your dogs are breeding quality, point out that
they "have papers." Extra points awarded for using the phrase "AKC
Certified." Double points if those papers come from the Continental Kennel
Club.

22. If you sell a sick puppy, always blame the owners for making it sick. If
the owners are clearly not responsible, blame their vet. (see #11)

23. If presented with irrefutable evidence proving you wrong on any excuses
you have used, pretend your server did not receive the post/e-mail.

24. Claim that none of the rules of ethical breeding apply to you because
you only intend to have one litter and therefore aren't a "real" breeder.

25. If all else fails, tell everyone who criticizes you to "get a life."

Written by Denna Pace . It was compiled by reading the horrible BYB ads on rec.pets.dogs.breed. Please credit when quoting.[/color]

[Guest Anonymous]

look you guys if i decide to breed my dogs agian i will, im sorry if you dont like it but it is my decision. i thank you all for the information you have given me and i have taken SOME of it to heart. i live in east texas and in a small town where the pound will not let you adopt pits, and alot of the pits in the paper are to expensive for me and alot of people i know. like i said i thank you for your input. i do have a question that does not pertain to pits. how do you get your dog to stop digging?

[JackieMaya]

JMoutan,

My dogs were digging in my yard too. I left the spot in the trees where they were digging as a designated digging spot. And there is one area in the middle of the yard where they dug a pit, and I left that for them. But they still found a few other places to dig (like right next to the foundation). So I laid down patio paver stones in the areas next to the foundation where they had been digging so that they couldn't dig there any more. There hasn't been any more digging since I laid down the paver stones (knock on wood).

[Guest Anonymous]

Just gonna throw this out there...
What about the whole insurance and APBT's issue?