Guest Anonymous Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Howdy! Today I went to the off-leash dog park. I have a 10-month black cattle dog mix and she is very sweet with me and other people and with dogs in small groups. But when we get to the area where there are a ton of dogs, she will pick one out of the group (usually it's blond or light-colored) and just bother the h*** out of the dog. She will chase it and then grab onto the neck folds of skin and then just keep bothering the dog. It scares me that she looks aggressive. When other dogs join her, it seems that they are all bullying the poor other dog. Then when the dog is forced to the ground, they seem to "go for the jugular" . Now she doesn't know any of the other dogs, but she totally assumes the pack stance. She's never truly bitten the other dog, or made it yelp or cry :cry: . I don't think she's playing though. And it's always a blond or light colored dog, NEVER another black dog. Is that possible that she knows the color differences? Should I be worried? If I distract her and keep on moving, she usually leaves the blond dog alone and will move on and start playing with the others. And she doesn't listen to me when she's fully involved with the pack trying to take the dog down. What can I do? She only does this at the dog parks. At doggie daycare, she is just fine. Help! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbunch Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 It might be a good idea to teach your dog the "leave it" command. This can work on anything you don't want your dog touching or going after. Whenever your dog is on leash and you pass a blond colored dog tell your dog leave it and distract your dog with a treat. Others might have better ideas! Hope this helps and not sure if I have welcomed you so if not Welcome to the forum Sheesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pets4ever Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Hi, It's interesting that she picks certain colors...however, my queensland did the same type of thing. She was/is a bully and I think they tend to be intense down to business dogs! She didn't want to fight either, but she made sure the other dog knew she was boss, even while they were playing. It's a lucky thing the other dog didn't care and never offered to fight cuz otherwise it would have been one. I never had the opportunity to have her loose in a large group and I probably wouldn't have done it anyway. It's good that yours is friendly to other dogs in smaller groups. That's good, maybe you should stick with smaller groups! :wink: I'm just afraid something someday is going to escalate into a major fight and cattle dogs don't like to back down from a challenge. :agrue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 "the leave it" command maybe keep the leash on untill she gets the message :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 They are pack animals, after all. Domesticated, but still pack animals. You say she always picks on the "blond" dogs - the lighter colored ones. Golden retrievers? Yellow Labs? The retriever family of dogs is almost always "laid back" - you rarely ever have dominance issues with them. It sounds like she is picking the least dominant animals in the group and showing her steel. She has announced herself as pack lead, and is proving she can hold the title. The fact that the other dogs join in shows that they have accepted her and are following her lead. The fact that she never hurts the other dogs is typical pack behavior - their means of disciplining looks very harsh, but only rarely do they ever hurt each other. Dogs can only see in black and white - so I dont think it's a color issue. It's more likely she can sense that these are non-aggresive non-dominant animals. She is definitely showing signs of pack behavior to the max! Now for the bad news - if she isnt listening to you either, she doesnt see YOU as the pack lead, which is the role you should always have, with any dog. She needs to be demoted. Quickly. She doesnt act this way in doggie-school because the trainer is the unchalleneged pack lead, and she knows it. There is training available for "demoting" dogs who have gotten too big for their britches. I can give you a few examplesL Dont let her sleep on your bed, ever. Always go through doorways before her - never let her lead you into or out of a room. Eat before she does, always - and let her see you doing it If you walk her on a leash MAKE her heel. Never let her lead you anywhere. In a true pack the leader goes first and foremost, always. And the other dogs stay behind. This the mindset you have to have while demoting her. You are the pack lead, she follows you. There is book called "Why does my dog...." by John Fisher that devotes a whole chapter to this issue. It would be worth your investment. It would be very bad for both you and her if she did hurt another dog You could be sued and she could be put to sleep. I urge you to work on this for both your sakes. Hope that helps. Katy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Welcome Sheesh- if your puppy is your avatar then she is very cute. :angel: Is she spayed? Maybe that would help? (I only have a male and we all know neutering can assist with dominance/aggression issues in males) Cattledogs are indeed very dominant and forceful and need a strong hand to show them what's acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour. The NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) programme ([url]http://www.goof.com/~pmurphy/NILIF.html[/url]) will help you establish that you are alpha and must be obeyed [b]immediately and not when she feels likes it[/b]. Believe me, I still have attention problems with my 7.5yr old cattledog X!!!! He isn't aggressive but just likes to show everyone he is boss by humping every bigger dog in sight that keeps still for more than 5 seconds. :roll: Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 courtnek - I thought dogs could see limited colours - blues, greens, yellows, greys, blacks, whites and they can colour differentiate for the colours they "can't see" based on the shade or intensity of blue/green/yellow/grey/black/white it shows up as for them???? sheesh - A freind of mine has a GSD who used to have a fear of black dogs after a very rough experience with a big black dog as a pup. (He outgrew it with a little help.) How have your dogs socializations gone, any bad experiences? I agree on the dominance issue, no matter what the issue or cause, you dog needs to know your the boss. It doesn't have to be a struggle of wills or a grrr thing. We just made Kavik do something before he got a treat, went out, played kong etc. For example to go out to play kong Kavik had to "sit" at the back door and let us go out first, then when released he could come out in the yard, then when I put my hand on the gate latch he had to sit in his spot (paticular spot for going out) and wait till I was outside the gate and said ok, then he could come out and play. The whole process just keyed him up more for the kong game, it was a trick, something fun. That worked just fine for us, good thing too, I would have hated to give up letting him sleep on the bed :) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 From what I have always been told, they see in shades of black, white and grey, but there could be new stuff I'm not up on yet. - wouldnt be the first time!! lol I let my dogs sit on my bed with me at night while I'm watching TV, but when I go to sleep they have to get off. In a dominant dog situation, like this one, until you get them demoted it's best to treat them like pack animals that have to follow pack rules. Once she's been demoted, you can ease up on the bed stuff, but you still have to make sure she knows who's the boss in every other respect. Cattledogs are very dominant animals - they were bred to boss sheep and cows around - and to protect them from wolves and jackals....not having any work to do frustrates them. They need control, and good workouts to be healthy and happy. Mine are lab-mixes - the kind that cattle dogs try to boss around!! lol I dont have real dominance issues with them because they are SOOOOO laid back....one is a golden retriever/yellow lab mix. He's so mellow you'd think he's dead half the time.... the other is a black lab pointer mix - she's a little more feisty. they are both rescues, and we had issues - but training and love brought them both around and I wouldnt part with either of them. Keep in touch!! Katy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtnek Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 OK I should probably explain myself here - before I got into computer support I used to train dogs. That's why I keep sticking my nose in here. I see WAY too many cases of people who have to get rid of their dogs because they did something "bad", and it was actually training and not "badness" - and I hate to see that happen. I think eventually I would like to get back into training. Any comments are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheesh Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hey all! Thanks for all the great advice. Now I know my bossy little girl is just acting like her folks. I didn't know that cattledogs were so dominating and bossy. Eventhough the little pipsqueak is only 40 lbs, she acts like she is a 150lb great dane or something :o . I will definitely try to demote her and will look into the books & websites you have suggested. I'm glad to hear that she is acting like a pack dog, rather than she is being vicious and aggressive. She has not hurt any dog ever. If the other dog reared it's fangs and started to bite her, I think she'd back off, and even cower back to me to seek shelter! The little wimp. How did you know she was sleeping in my bed? I'm guilty. I will keep her out of the bed till I have re-established Alpha titleship! I still think she can distinguish the blond dogs (goldens & yellow labs) from the black dogs. She is scared of the germans and bigger dogs. But the blondes--- I swear she seeks them out to bully. Poor things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheesh Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Courtnek - just ordered Why Does My Dog... Thanks for the recommendation! Will let you know if (when!) I see changes in Riley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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