Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Anyways..this conversation is dying out.. breeders are never going to agree with people who are against it....so what's the point of this back and forth debate? It'll end the same way that it started..lol I am so finished here...ciao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 PETA philosophies? Meaning? Puppy Mills...animal abuse...public education? Yes I agree with those things...and I'm sure you do as well..unless you support puppy mills, think animal abuse is ok..and believe public education won't change the way people treat animals..well then that's your opinion again..*shrugs* This debate is dead.. :roll: bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Ill make one more post. I cant believe you all sucked me in. :lol: Breeding responsibly is better than not I guess but answer me what the purpose in breeding is other than carrying on good lines? And what defines good lines anway? Is it structure? Working? Temperment? I think it should be all three otherwise its not acceptable. Since Ive gotten to Dogo, Ive made judgements on different topics and even changed my opinion. Im more open to what breeders have to say now, then before when I was thinking breeders only added to the population. Then I thought, responsible breeders like the ones here, all find homes for their pups and keep good tracks on them, making sure if the owner would ever give them up they would go back to the breeder and not a shelter. Although Im pretty sure this rarely happens since the breeder screens the possible new owner thoroughly first. So responsible breeders, private breeders, what ever, are not the ones who have dogs and puppies in shelters, it is the irresponsible ones doing it. As for what to do about them, well IMO I think they should be shut down, problem is its hard to find a lot of them. So... Pet stores should be closed. No stores should sell live animals (except for perhaps fish, small reptiles, rodents and maybe birds). Pet stores are mainly what BYB and mills thrive on, so we should try to shut them down, am I not right? If they were closed, more people would go to the most convienient place, that being a shelter. Or if theyre more serious about it a rescue or breeder. Another thing is breeders should only be able to have one maybe two litters a year. I really dont see the need in having more than that, unless any of you breeders can tell me why? Any people who breed over that should have to pay, and the money would go to a local shelter. (yeah right though, government would snatch that money up! lol, but hey Im just trying to make a perfect world in my head :lol: ) Oh and of course, breeders should stop trying to make new breeds! Im sure of all the types of dogs we have right now they can find a dog they would like! Of course with jobs I guess it would be a little bit different. That may be acceptable to breed for certain jobs like for people with disabilties just because they too are not getting rid of any of these dogs and are seeing to it that they are well taken care of. We need to put an end to irresponsible breeding! Thats whats killing so many animals! Start boycotting pet stores, spread information about them and theyre bad side, teach the world how to make a difference! We have to help the animals who are near their end because of over population, and we have to start NOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Kiwi I never mentioned anywhere that I agree with all of PETA's philosophies either... Oh..and Crazy Canine..just to let you know..alot of the pet shops in Canada do [b]not[/b] take their dogs from puppy mills but in fact..from breeders...breeders that claim to be responsible and take great care in making sure their dogs come from respectable and healthy parents with good genes/lines whatever...so yeah..that's what keeps them in business here... Imagine if those pet shops INSTEAD, took dogs from shelters and tried to sell them off...wouldn't that be a great idea? I think so (some actually do that here which is great)..but the fact that people keep breeding dogs doesn't let shelters give their animals to these pet shops because they're already filled with pure bred puppies from breeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixstarDanes Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 [quote name='pitbulletta']Imagine if those pet shops INSTEAD, took dogs from shelters and tried to sell them off...wouldn't that be a great idea?[/quote] Actually, that is what the petstore closest to where we live does. They work in close conjunction with the Humane Society and get dogs/puppies & cats/kittens from them. They also once a month have the Humane Society come and set up shop outside the store with other adoptable critters. We all have our own opinions and do what we feel is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 [quote]Oh..and Crazy Canine..just to let you know..alot of the pet shops in Canada do not take their dogs from puppy mills but in fact..from breeders...breeders that claim to be responsible and take great care in making sure their dogs come from respectable and healthy parents with good genes/lines whatever...so yeah..that's what keeps them in business here... [/quote] [color=red][b]Simply not true! [/b][/color] Pet stores in Canada get their dogs from puppy mills in Ontario (there's one in Pickering not too far away from me) Quebec, BC, just about every province where there is a market for them. They also get their dogs from puppymills in the US. They also get their dogs from irresponsible breeders. Responsible breeders would NOT send their dogs to a pet store. Responsible breeders will get have their membership revoked from most breed clubs, national, local and the Canadian Kennel Club if they sell to pet stores. Your assertion is just plain incorrect. [quote]but I hate people who feel they need to become "rude" instead of passionate...there's a difference..I don't know maybe that is just your idea of being passionate though... [/quote] Please point out where I have been rude, because I'd really like to know. If you're going to express an opinion on a public forum am I not allowed to disagree with you? If you want to talk about Kiwi's comments, go for it, I'm not her attorney though, I'm sure she can defend herself. Breeding responsibly is better than not I guess but answer me what the purpose in breeding is other than carrying on good lines? And what defines good lines anway? Is it structure? Working? Temperment? I think it should be all three otherwise its not acceptable. [/quote] Good structure, health, temperament, conformation, longevity, all of these are crucial for a good lineage and they need to be preserved and improved on continuously. Otherwise, I agree it's not acceptable. I'm known throughout the local dog community as having ridiculously high standards, so many people know that if they want a good breeder recommendation that I'm a good source for them if I'm familiar with the breed. I think in responsible breeding there is no such thing as too high a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Actually, alot of pet shops in Canada DO get their dogs from breeders. PJ's Pet Shop is an example...there are more.... I don't know which pet shops you are referring to Shenanigans, but a list would be great so that I know who to yell at the next time I go to a mall or store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 If petshops get their dogs from breeders then those breeders dont seem to be very responsible! And thats the point everyones trying to make here, theres a big difference in responsible and irresponsible! Breeders wouldnt be letting their puppies be sold through pet stores if they were responsible because they keep track of their puppies and make sure theyre in good condition. Lots of pet stores dont keep animals in good condition so the breeders youre talking about, most likely arent good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 [quote]Actually, alot of pet shops in Canada DO get their dogs from breeders. PJ's Pet Shop is an example...there are more.... I don't know which pet shops you are referring to Shenanigans, but a list would be great so that I know who to yell at the next time I go to a mall or store.[/quote] I never said they didn't Pitbulletta. I clearly said [quote]Pet stores in Canada get their dogs from puppy mills in Ontario (there's one in Pickering not too far away from me) Quebec, BC, just about every province where there is a market for them. They also get their dogs from puppymills in the US. [quote][color=red]They also get their dogs from irresponsible breeders[/color][/quote] [/quote] PJ's, Superpet, Luckypet, PetValu (the ones that sell puppies), apparently a Walmart. If you're involved in rescue and animal welfare in Canada, you'd know this. Heck, it's even been reported on CTV, CBC, CityTV every news channel I have access to. There's still legal fallout happening from a bust last year in the 905 region, and fortunately the fines are very steep. It's not jail time, but it's progress. Again, responsible breeders would never sell their dogs to pet stores, if they do, they're not responsible breeders, despite my dislike for issues being black and white, this is one area where it certainly is. Blasted formatting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Crazy I understand that...but alot of people don't know the difference..they'll go into a pet shop and they'll get all these flashy certificates that show how the parents of the puppy were show dog champions and they'll show off all these health records...and the people are sold... Anyways...lets just end this I'm telling you we're not going to get anywhere with this conversation. Some people think its fine and some don't... either way, people need to be educated about it because there are alot of homeless dogs...that's what it all comes down to...lowering the population of unwanted pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Wait, wait, wait! Then what was your point, Pitbulletta? We all know irresponsible breeders do sell their pups at pet stores. All I said was that they should be shut down... and for that reason exactly! I dont get it, what are you arguing over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I'm arguing that alot of people don't know the difference between "good" and "bad" breeders and that no matter how responsible of a breeder you are, the people you sold the dog to may not want it later on, may not return it, and may give it up for adoption..and then you say "well then it's the owners fault"..well NO it isn't..because if it weren't for that breeder who sold the puppy, that dog wouldn't end up in a shelter..regardless of responsible breeding or irresponsible ownership... Either way I still don't see the reason as to WHY people do it...did I answer your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 [quote]Either way I still don't see the reason as to WHY people do it[/quote] Responsible breeders are breeding to preserve their breed, and continue to keep it true to itself as best as they can. People who buy from responsible breeders are often doing so because they have a particular thing (or things) they want or need in a dog, and cannot find that in a shelter dog or one from a rescue. These people would not be going and adopting a rescue dog anyway (because a rescue dog does not fit their needs), so there is no "taking a home away from a rescue dog" argument in these cases. That is their choice, just as it is someone elses choice to go to the shelter and pick out an equally wonderful pet that fits their needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 *yawn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 This is seriously the worst case of having to have the last word I've ever seen. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Ok.....my 2 cents...... I have 2 purebred dogs at present,both English Springers,one from a breeder and one from a rescue,I wanted Springers because I just love their zest for life and doolally personality :) When I went looking for Ellie (my first) I wanted a Springer,nothing else,and I had young children so I figured that getting a pup was best for us so that there was no baggage,however I wanted a healthy dog so I opted to go for a working line as opposed to a show line as they tend to be more hardy,both Ellie's parents worked in the field and they were bred initially because their pups were in great demand,however the bitch threw a big litter (11) and so there were some sold as pets. There are many people like I was who know what they want,it doesn't make them irresponsible. My second dog Rio was from a BYB I'm ashamed to say,hubby had always wanted a Weimaraner and when we saw Weim x pups advertised locally we went to see them,unfortunately my heart ruled my head and I brought home a sickly terrified nervous puppy thinking I could turn him around with love,training and socialisation......I couldn't.My baby boy is now at the bridge,he couldn't cope with life at all,but that's another story. My 3rd dog Charlie is a purebred working type Springer and he is from a rescue,again I got a Springer because it's a breed that I know and feel safe with. I think the people who need to be targetted are the BYB's the people who bred my Weim x are still breeding and no-one can stop them,there is no law against what they are doing :( Responsible breeders will take back any pup that needs to be returned at ANY stage of it's life so responsible breeders are not adding to shelter numbers are they ? Responsible breeders wouldn't dream of selling their pups through a pet store....no way. I have done all of the above,responsible breeder,BYB and rescue so I thought I'd chuck in my thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 would you prefer me being defensive instead? :roll: I guess people like to do this alot ===> :agrue: so like I said, [u][b]*yawn*[/b][/u]...forget it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I thought you said that it seemed like everyone on this site agreed with one another and wouldn't argue?? Now you are saying that we like to argue?? Huh?? :-? :-? [quote] ...I know you're probably used to everyone agreeing with everyone else in dogomania, at least that's what I tend to see in alot of posts...everyone's afraid of saying something else in fear of getting jumped on...[/quote] [quote] I guess people like to do this alot ===> :agrue: [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Starfox I dunno what you're talking about...weirdo.. ??? Kiwi...sorry if I came off the wrong way...I guess you had your good points about responsible breeding as well...I read all your posts over again and I can see why you would do it I guess....I'm not saying I think it's great or anything..but I see more than before where you're comin from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 PBL, I dont think name calling is going to solve anything! ...and anyways Im proud to be a weirdo arent you Starfox? :lol: Well, this IS a debate. I dont get why people are taking things personally. Maybe Im just odd but I dont see the need for stupid things like rudeness. *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Me neither Crazy Canine, especially from someone who is so heck bent on labelling anyone who disagrees with her as rude. There's not much point in debating like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmeAndCharley Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Man! I wanna post something to little pitbulletta soooo bad! But I've been :drinking: a few tonight with some friends, so what I have to say might just get me banned from the board. I don't need that!!! I shall keep my thoughts to myself! ** Hic ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='__crazy_canine__']PBL, I dont think name calling is going to solve anything! ...and anyways Im proud to be a weirdo arent you Starfox? :lol: Well, this IS a debate. I dont get why people are taking things personally. Maybe Im just odd but I dont see the need for stupid things like rudeness. *shrugs*[/quote] No problem with anyone calling me a werido..i've been called worse. :lol: [quote]I think it's too late now...I think she was banned herself.[/quote] Gee what a loss.. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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