bullygirl29532 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 oh no hobbit that wasn't for you!! i know and love yoursarcasm. that was for all the misinformed pit people how don't know a game dog from a mooses butt. tons of people throw that buzz word around with out any idea of it's true meaning cause most don't own a dictionary. Bribob was that me you said sided w/ the elite few...if thats the case boy did you read my post wrong. i was sticking up for you. my ideas differ greatly from most on this board. i don't mind responsible byb or even brokers...my true concern about them lies with how the animals are kept and trained. if they are beloved animals than do what you will, animals are owned, property like a house or car. i have been on the outs w/ some concerning my views about BSL or at least i felt like i was on the outside w/ one person.I don't conform to the GROUPS ideals but I do follow the BOARDS rules. which are two totally different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Sorry Bully I mean BriBob or what ever.. my appologies. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 What was this post about?? :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Aw who cares...I just think the words... "flaming Poofy" are too funny... Since I "flamed" and was "flamed" maybe I should change my name...become a rock star... HAHAHAH Now playing at an ampatheater near you "Flaming Poofy".... hmmm...is it just me...or can that sound sorta phalic if you say it right? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullygirl29532 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 no sorrys needed poofy...truth be told i was mostly upset by you suggesting i leave this board but no harm no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yeah..I really didn't mean it bully...for some reason I had bully on the brain....I was not thinking about YOU when I said it...I was too poofed to think strait.. :) :) so please don't be upset.,. :) take care :) Hey I bet I can use my name...like the smurfs used theirs... ;) Well poof you...and poof this, and yeah poof poof and poof again.. ;D :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Hello, I cannot find the page you people are talking about,I would really like to see it,and did you also see the Hall's Damage pedigree,if you have not,go to his page and look at champion Halls Gangster,now to me he looks like he has been in a fight or 2..Why do people do that to thier dogs?I am so happy we do not have dog fighting out here in Canada,but we do have our fair share of puppy mills..If I had my way I would treat the people that run puppy mills the same way they treat those poor dogs..It is hard for me not to when I go to a house and see all those hundreds of dogs that are in little cages,barly enough room to walk and scred to death of you,because they know nothing elese.. It is sad,and half the dogs we take out of there do get put down,because they are to sick,or to far gone to even be able to live a happy life..I wish they would get done to them what they do to those poor helpless animals that just want to be loved..And the sad thing is,no matter how you treat an animal it will always forgive you and love you with all of it's heart.I can promise you all this,I will do anything and everything I can to put a stop to the puppy mills.As God as my witness I will make a diffrence to all those dogs lives..Animal Rights out here has already stopped S.P.C.A from putting animals to sleep out here in Canada,so if we can do that,we can sure as heck stop the puppy mills.. luv my rotts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Animal Rights and the No-Kill Shelters. I have extensive experience with both subjects. The No-Kill shelters are animal cruelty at it's finest. Some animals live in a cage for years or their entire life. Kennel workers that are overworked and under paid don't stay long enough to bond with the animals. The animals get cage crazed and become unadoptable. The no kill shelter operates very similar to a pet store. They take the cream of the crop and leave the "unadoptable" animals to be destroyed in City Pounds. The dogs deemed unadoptable are Rotties, Saints, Mastiff's Labs, Most all of the large breeds and especially Black dogs or cats. Animal Rights is PeTA. A group of fanatics that are trying to take MY rights away. A group that supports terrorism, a group that believes there should be NO companion animals. The same group that turned show dogs loose on the strreets of Manhatten during a benched show. The same group that made false research tapes on chimp head injury and distributed them to make people believe that reserachers were inhumane. You may want to research the animal rights movement prior to accepting propaganda. Peta believes it is cruel to show or breed dogs. You stated that half of the animals taken from Mills are put down. Then you stated you have stopped the SPCA from putting animals down. So who is killing the mill dogs? Why aren't they treated? Why not have a behaviorist work with them? I have spent most of my life working in the Humane field. Puppy mills may be put out of business but Commercial breeders won't. It is big business. The Hunt Corp. grows daily. The Government has given them huge grants to enlarge the facility. As long as the public buys the supply will be met. It is a myth that all dogs from Mills or Commercial breeders, and Pet Stores are sick or poor quality. I will get off my soap box now. Please don't take this personal. Too many people are taken in by the Animal Rights Movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 All I can say is...AMEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Hello, Well I do not know where you are from,but the dogs and cats out here in Canada that are at the S.P.C.A are not kept in little cages,they are in foster homes getting all the love and attention they need till they find a home where they are going to be loved for the rest of thier life..And to me that is not in anyway ,mistreament of any dog or cat..I would not let it happen,let alone stand there and watch a dog or cat live in a little cage for months at a time.. And as far as the puppy mills,the dogs that are there do not know any other life, but how to sit in a cage and have babies..You think when I go to a puppy mill and see all those sad dogs faces the first thing I say,is they all have to be put down? I would love to be able to take them all and tell them it is going to be ok,but sometimes it's not..We get ones that eyes are so infected and full of puss that it is just a matter of time before they die because the infection has spread in the blood stream..We do take them to a vet,but sometimes the vet can only do so much,and if we feel that the dog is suffering and will never have a happy life,we all decide to put it down..It takes alot of nerve to do,but we only do what we feel is best for the animals.. Let me ask you something.Have you ever been to a puppy mill and seen the dogs and the way they live,they never have any food or water,they are kept in small dirty cages,thier nails are so long that they cannot even walk right,they stink so bad that when you go near thier cage you want to puke,some of the mothers have dead rotting pups in thier with them while the are feeding the pups that lived, and nobody cares as long as most of them live so the mill can make money..Thier teeth are so dirty and sore they could not even eat if they wanted to..You try to go near them and they scream like you are going to kill them..It makes me sick and I am sitting here crying as I write this,so don't sit there and tell me I do not care.. :( I do care about the animals and I am the one that sits with almost all of them to teach them that there is more to life then being abused..And we do not believe that show dogs are treated bad..I think that they have the best life,because they do get the best of everything..I show rottweilers and am an animal rights advocate,so please do not make us sound like we do not care about the animals..What about all the dogs that are tied in peoples yard on hot days with not food or water,we get a phone call about this and we get the dog..We have paid up to $1000 for a dog just to get it out of there so we can place it in a home where it will be loved,so don't tell me we don't care..We will do what we can to help any animal.. I will keeping doing this as long as there is dogs and cats to help..I have not in my 5 years of doing this seen a dog or cat get put down for no reason...It is always for health or temperment problams...Like I said we can only do so much...And please do not condem us for trying to help the animals..We placed 1500 cats and dogs in homes last year that where from puppy mills and dogs that where left in a backyards and not taken care of,and out of the animals we did get ,only 40 had to be put down,so I think that is pretty damm good.. We also will pay to have your dog or cat fixed if you do not have the money to do it,we believe that if we help, the unwanted pet population will go down..I have paid tuns of money out of my own pocket to help people with thier animals..There are people out there that do care about thier animals,but do not have the money to fix them.If that is the case,all they have to do is phone me,and I am right there to help..Now tell me do I sound like I do not care what happens to the animals? :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Just so you know he already took that dog Damage's picture off of his site even the /gamedog people were getting on his case about breeding the disfigured dog.The puppy that had the same problem was on the propects page you could check that page out if you really want to see what everyone is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 You said: "Well I do not know where you are from,but the dogs and cats out here in Canada that are at the S.P.C.A are not kept in little cages,they are in foster homes getting all the love and attention they need till they find a home where they are going to be loved for the rest of thier life..And to me that is not in anyway ,mistreament of any dog or cat..I would not let it happen,let alone stand there and watch a dog or cat live in a little cage for months at a time.. " That is in Canada, where you have neither the human or pet population problem the US has. The shelters here, do not normally, have foster homes..the dogs stay in dank and under staffed kennels, with only minimum care. You said: "And as far as the puppy mills,the dogs that are there do not know any other life, but how to sit in a cage and have babies..You think when I go to a puppy mill and see all those sad dogs faces the first thing I say,is they all have to be put down? I would love to be able to take them all and tell them it is going to be ok,but sometimes it's not..We get ones that eyes are so infected and full of puss that it is just a matter of time before they die because the infection has spread in the blood stream..We do take them to a vet,but sometimes the vet can only do so much,and if we feel that the dog is suffering and will never have a happy life,we all decide to put it down..It takes alot of nerve to do,but we only do what we feel is best for the animals.. " There is a difference, between a mill, and a commercial breeder. A commerical breeder keeps their dogs in IMMACULATE conditions, they have to meet stringent housing requirements, that sadly, a number of show persons, could not meet. Liking it is not apart of the equation...but understanding hte difference and not lumping them all as the same is. You said: "Let me ask you something.Have you ever been to a puppy mill and seen the dogs and the way they live,they never have any food or water,they are kept in small dirty cages,thier nails are so long that they cannot even walk right,they stink so bad that when you go near thier cage you want to puke,some of the mothers have dead rotting pups in thier with them while the are feeding the pups that lived, and nobody cares as long as most of them live so the mill can make money..Thier teeth are so dirty and sore they could not even eat if they wanted to..You try to go near them and they scream like you are going to kill them..It makes me sick and I am sitting here crying as I write this,so don't sit there and tell me I do not care.. " yes I have been to a mill I have even baild dogs out of a mill...and even mills try to keep their dogs healthy as that is the way they make money...what you are describing is simple animal abuse and neglect and I have seen such conditions dealing with PET OWNERS. Again, a commerical breeder is not under the same catagory as a mill, even though we tend to lump them together, its not exactly fair. Many people, including myself, have done a lot of work for rescue and its never pretty. But just as not all pet owners are irresponsible idiots who chain their dogs out back to starve, not all large volume breeders are mills...there is a difference even though we don't like to acknowledge it. Commercial breeders will ALWAYS be here until the hobby breeder/show breeder is willing to meet public demand for pure bred dogs....I have my own opinons of it all..but I try my best not to catagorize any breeder, no matter their choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I believe I told you NOT to take my post personal. I was trying to explain the facts of Peta, and the Animal Rights movement. You seem to have missed the point. To answer your question, I have been to hundreds of mills as a professional in the Humane Field. I haven't seen the things you are saying at all. I have seen those things advertised in Peta's handouts, though. Most Miller's do have animals in small cages and waste under the cages. Dogs on wire, etc. The dogs haven't been sick. They have to keep them somewhat healthy to breed. The pups get shots every two weeks and are wormed non- stop. I do not condone mills, I would not put one of my dogs in one. On the other hand I would not put my dogs in the hands of an animal rights activist, either. I also would not condemn them to a life in a No-Kill shelter. You must be from a small area. The thousands of animals at the shelters here could never be fostered out. What happens to the aggressive dogs? Do they go to foster homes? I would guess the cream of the crop go to foster homes and the rest die. I used to foster animals. It is great but very limited. A small drop in a huge puddle. The animal rights activists, PeTA, is trying to put an end to dog shows. I was in New York when they turned the top dogs in the country loose on the streets. They called it setting them free. Animals were dodging traffic, owners running after them. Owners were hit and shoved by animal activists when they were trying to catch their dogs. That is as low as you can get. PeTA also gave money to the terrorists that were involved in the New York bombing. They were also behind the fur campaign, throwing paint on women in furs. They tried to ban milk drinking, eating meat, and want NO companion animals. I show dogs and I breed dogs. I will not allow activists to take my rights away. I despise PeTA and everything they stand for. I will remind you that when you sit and cry about the dogs in the mills remember that for everyone you take out another one comes in to fill that cage. Cry for the new one that is condemned to the life of a mill dog. It doesn't end because someone sheds a tear. It will end when the public is educated. It will end when this country enforces the laws that are on the books for the Humane care for Animals. If you see an animal is being abused you need to stand up, where it counts, in the court room. To take the dog, but not stop the perpetrator, does nothing. That is my stand on the Animal Rights Issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I would like to apologize to all of you whom I lumped together with PETA I know you would never do those things that Watchdog was saying and I am sorry if I offended you guys. That is horrible that they let those dogs loose did any of them get hurt? Did PETA get punished at all? I hope no one lost their dog.Also I am not being sarcastic . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 WatchDog...AMEN again!!!! Peta and HSUS suck. As for Peta being punished, it has been a well known fact that Peta has funded animal TERRORIST groups such as ALF, giving money for legal defense and membership recuit (this group is in europe). These people are viscious. If you want to support some one for the good of the animals, support the ASPCA or donate FOOD and supplies to your local HS group. I cannot tell you how evil these people are. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Ok, First of all chill out,second I have nothing againest dog breeders as I am one myself..I know that there are breeders that love thier dogs and will do anything for them,and I am one of them,but then there are people out there that just do it for the money.. I never said once I had anything againest dog breeders that are in it to improve the breed,but they are few and far between...And as for Peta,the are very far off from doing what they are suppose to..We are not like that at all,you have to have limits to how far you go,and letting dogs out of a crates at a dog show so they can get hit by cars is very wrong in my eyes..I would not dream of doing that and neither would anybody elese I work with,that to me is crap.. And the dogs that are at the S.P.C.A,we work with even the mean ones to see if we can change them,we are always buying dogs from then for that reason.. I have a male Irish Setter at my house right now,talk about mean,he is so scared of everything that he will attack anybody that comes near him,but I don't care I will get bit to try and make him understand not everybody wants to hurt him,it is a long road but I will do it..I had a male Rottweiler that was nothing but a stud dog,I paid $1500 to get that dog out of the situation he was in,he was kept in a crate hardly feed,and as mean as they come..He was 3 when I got him and he hated everybody he bite me 5 times and 5 times I needed stiches..Well I worked with this dog 4 hours a day for 5 months,brushing him,talking to him and feeding him, trying to make him see I was not going to hurt him,well I guess it must have worked,he is now in a home with kids and has never tried to bite them,and I know he would do anything to protect the family if he had to..I know you can change a dog from worse to better,it is a long road,but I have done it more then once,and I will keep doing it..And I never said we put all the dogs down from the puppy mills,only the ones that I worked with for a year and did not see a change in temperment,or the ones that are really sick and need to be put down to stop thier pain.If you have not see how sick the dogs are at puppy mills,then you have not been to the really bad ones yet,like the ones I have been to,they do not care if thier dogs are sick,or dying,they just want to make the money,and if they should happen die before they are bred or before they have thier litter,oh well they just move on to the next breeding bitches..It is a bad cycle and it does not stop... We have had 14 puppy mills shut down out here in B.C. alone,and the people that run them are band from having any type of pet for 15 years,and if they are caught with any type of pet they are fined $2000 and 5 years in jail..Now tell me how much stiffer can the laws get...And how do we know if they get anymore animals,well a baliff goes to there house once a month and checks,and if they move they have to give an address or the have a warrent out for thier arrest,and then they go to jail..There are still more that need to be closed down,and we are working on it,as a matter if fact we are getting ready to go down to one tomorrow... And the S.P.C.A out here is not as good as it is in the States..The only thing they care about out here are putting the dogs to sleep,why do you think we fought so hard to make them non-kill shelters,and why do you think we used to buy so many of thier dogs, because we did not want to see helpless animals get put to sleep because they do not have room or the time to take care of them,now they have no choice and the dogs and cats have to be put in foster homes and not put to sleep...And the HM I would not give them anything,they are worse then the S.P.C.A for god sakes.. luv my rotts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I have found that many people confuse animal [u]rights[/u] with animal [u]welfare[/u]. My involvement and passion is with animal welfare. Animal rights is a whole 'nother can of worms, but some well intentioned people just get it confused (and no, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone... just meant in a broad sense). There needs to be a clear outline defining the differences between animal welfare and animal rights. Animal [u]rights[/u] and all that stands for is scary stuff once you realize what is often intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 The confusion of animal rights vs. animal welfare is how Peta sucks people in. Peta and the Humane Society of the United States, (HSUS) bring in millions of dollars but the money is spent for political agendas instead of the animals. LUV MY ROTS said: I never said once I had anything againest dog breeders that are in it to improve the breed,but they are few and far between...And as for Peta,the are very far off from doing what they are suppose to..We are not like that at all,you have to have limits to how far you go,and letting dogs out of a crates at a dog show so they can get hit by cars is very wrong in my eyes..I would not dream of doing that and neither would anybody elese I work with,that to me is crap.. That led me to believe that Luv My Rots is a Peta member. I guess I should ask instead of jumping to conclusions. Are you a Peta member or what type of group are you working with? [color=red][/color]I know many breeders, Show and Pet that work very hard to improve the breed. Some people have become soured on dog shows because of the politics or what some consider show mills. I have finished many Champions yet I do not feel my dogs are superior. Many pet breeders produce better pups than show breeders do. I don't think responsible breeders are few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 The S.P.C.A does not care about anything..I feel they do not do anything with the money they get for donations to feed and take care of the animals,in fact I know they don't..There is a lady that bulit a Thirty Thousand Dollar cattery for the S.P.C.A so the cats would have more room,but what the S.P.C.A did not tell her,is that they where closing down a month after she built the cattery and spent all that money out of her pocket to do it,but they don't care it is not thier money..She is so livid at them right now that she has had it,and is not helping the S.P.C.A anymore.Now if that is not ripping somebody off, I do not know what is..And the sad thing is,the animals have to suffer because of how dumb the S.P.C.A is. And no I am not part of PETA..Why would I be a part of them,when I don't like what they do..As far as I am concered they are not out there to help the animals,they are out there to make a name for themselfs..Anybody that does what they do are not right in the head.. And I have seen alot of breeders breed for a the wrong reason,why do you think you see so many unwanted purebred dogs in shelters?Because somebody was breeding for the wrong reasons.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I know what you are saying about the mis-spending of money that is donated to help the animals. I secured a million and a half for the City pound and they have let it sit and grow for 4 years. They were supposed to build a new shelter but instead they are using the interest to pay employees and the excess is in the general fund. The animals have substandard conditions while the City and it's employees use the money. I don't know how these people sleep at night. The so called volunteers get paid by helping themselves to free dog food and donated toys and treats. The staff steals the donated crates and food. It is a rackett. Some of the humane groups are in it for the money and the perks. No doubt about it. It is very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Our local humane society has taken a loan out against their building rather than accept government funding. :o They imply that it is the governments fault that there are all these stray and unwanted and abused dogs. Personnally if its the governments fault then I think they should be taking their money to fix the problem. The humane society has cells for the dogs that are approximately 1.5m by 2.5m or so, the dogs are walked (in a fully gravel yard) 2x a day or more if the volunteers can get to them. Most have no bedding, the bedding available sucks - a raised hard plastic platform and sometimes a thin blanket. Rarely any toys. I think they should take the money! Our SPCA is fully funded, rarely has more than two dogs in their holding area and is a cleaner better facility but no more toys, blankets or beds. Only our private rescues really seem to do a good job. I think the problems in most of Canada are like the problems in the states, yes we have less people and dogs but we also have correspondingly less money and shelters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 They posted this on BB but the picture was taken down before I saw it. Suprising enough he isnt as inbred as some APBTs. As a breeder, and I know you will nail me for this, I do some inbreeding. However, outcrosses are very important. Some of the dogs are bred strictly for keeping the line heavy. For example, I have a very heavily bred, pure Bullyson bitch (did not breed her, bought her). She will not be bred to any dog with more than 25%-30% Bullyson in them UNTIL her last litter. The last time I breed her will be to a fairly heavy Bullyson male. It keeps the line and traits strong. I guarantee anyone with a gamebred APBT there is heavy inbreeding in the pedigree. I have never had any dog, heavy inbred or not, with birth defects. But, like I said, the outcrosses are important and if you know what you are doing the inbreeding wont be too heavy. I am suprised Bobby Hall bred the dog AND sold it if it has a defect. He should know better with as long as he has been in the frat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 I did some research on this anomolie...and I think I might actually know what it is. ITs called Carpal Sublaxation, it is a sex linked trait in some breeds. Most likely to be carried by the female parent and displayed by the male offspring. Your right, it is not caused by inbreeding, simply by poor breeding. Inbreeding like out crossing, is a tool to be utilized in any breeding program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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