Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I need help. On Novemeber 6th, my sister caught her lab (female, unaltered, in heat) with the neighbor's lab (male, unaltered) doing the mighty deed. According to my calculations, Belle would be due to whelp on January 7th. That is a week away (and a day). Not sure if Belle is pregnant or not yet. Her teets are longer (nipples), she has calmed down quite a bit and her tummy looks longer. A quote from an instant message from my sister about Belle "we really tried to look her over last night. her belly doenst look wider but it sags more under her rib cage". She has the signs of pregnancy but not really a baby looking belly. They've already constructed a whelping box, in case. SOOO.....since I've forgotten everything since when Kika was "with child", when should her teets fill with milk? Shouldn't we already be able to feel the pups? She's SOO all over you when you try to feel the pups that it's hard. She's not the calmest dog... Could it be a false pregnancy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black GSD Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Yes, dogs can and do go thru false pregnancies. Why doesn't she just take her to the vet? The vet could tell her one way or the other FOR SURE. Instead of just guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 [quote name='Black GSD']Yes, dogs can and do go thru false pregnancies. Why doesn't she just take her to the vet? The vet could tell her one way or the other FOR SURE. Instead of just guessing.[/quote] Well, they were planning on it until my brother in law lost his job (he was a CFO, they have a brand new house with mega-payments and NO health insurance with 2 kids....)... So, money is very tight for them right now. I just wish they would have spayed both girls to begin with. Now I'm wondering how they are gonna afford that as well.... :roll: I just can't preach enough about getting the girls altered. Doesn't work I guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 sorry don't know much about puppies. You need someone like Roo who has bred she might be able to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 This close to a whelping date I have always been able to feel the puppies moving. Most bitches I have known bags have dropped by this time and milk can be expressed.....however, false pregnancies are not all that uncommon, and in this case, wouldn't that be nice? Later, Trinity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveLabs Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 One of my friends (who I met at Justlabradors) has a female which just has pups...she is a very responsible breeder, and a reputable breeder- I posted some pictures of the pups and their mom when she was giving birth... So, if you would like to check out her site (which has so much helpful information- about pregnancy and so much other things) go to this link... [url]http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/articles.html[/url] I hope this helps you out some! I would try and help you out- but I am sure you can find information there that will be of better help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 if they cant afford the vet how can they hope to pay for the cost of puppies? That is hy real breeders dont do it as fo income, you ussually spend more than you make. Shots and vet appointments, in some cases docks and crops, declaws, and it just really adds up. Now instead of just one dog there is an entire litter. In some cases vet will give a discount for the quantity but it is still very costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 [quote name='Trinity']This close to a whelping date I have always been able to feel the puppies moving. Most bitches I have known bags have dropped by this time and milk can be expressed.....however, false pregnancies are not all that uncommon, and in this case, wouldn't that be nice? Later, Trinity[/quote] Yes, it would be really nice since they never planned on breeding. Neither of their girls have been certified (eyes or hips). I did go over there over my lunch hour. Belle is filling up with milk but you still can't feel any puppies (but then again, she's not one to sit STILL EVER!)...BUT, her rib cage is lowering to the ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Rott, Gigi has preached to them about spaying and being responsible. Some listen, some do not. I think they have learned now the hard way! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 [quote=ROTT'N'PIT]if they cant afford the vet how can they hope to pay for the cost of puppies? That is hy real breeders dont do it as fo income, you ussually spend more than you make. Shots and vet appointments, in some cases docks and crops, declaws, and it just really adds up. Now instead of just one dog there is an entire litter. In some cases vet will give a discount for the quantity but it is still very costly.[/quote] Well, they did not plan this litter (MAN if they would JUST LISTEN TO ME and have gotten them spayed :roll: ).... They have money in savings to live off of (his 401k was cashed out) but they just don't need this expense right now. Trust me, I tried to talk them into getting her the "morning after" pill but they wouldn't do it. My brother in law may take her in to the vet. He was talking about getting xrays done when I noticed she was getting milk. Do you guys think they SHOULD have her xrayed or let nature take it's course and if she's with pups, we'll know next week? Love my sister and her family to death but am not happy about this. Yes, I'd love to see the pups if she's pregnant but I'm also hoping it's false. I was disappointed (I wont lie to you) that I'm thinking it's false just because I love puppies, but for the better of the breed and Belle, I hope she's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Oh, I got my digital camera today for Christmas (had it on Christmas but mom got the wrong card for it). I TRIED to take pix of her when she was sitting to show you but I don't have the permissions to load the software here at work. I'll have to wait till I get home to post the pix so you can all see her belly. I guess I just don't understand...would her rib cage be lowering so much if it was a false pregnancy? Anyone???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Gigi, I myself would want to know.....this way everyone is ready, including the vet on call. While x-rays are of course the best way to determine pregnancy and relative litter size, I assume your brother-in-law is going to want the cheaper option which would be an external palpation by the vet (an experienced one should be able to determine pregnancy at this stage easily!) Later, Trinity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I agree. I would want to know as well. When we had a litter we found out through xrays (but that's cuz our dogs got out, got into poison but we thought maybe she was hit by a car :( ). I think I'll give her a call right now. Convince her that they need to do the xrays. Then they can have a better idea how many (if any) pups there are. Besides, the vet they see is not expensive and deals with a LOT of labs (very dominant in their area)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 An exam is $24 and the xrays would be $50. My sister is calling right now. Whew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Good Deal Gigi! I'll keep my fingers crossed it is a false.....let us know either way. Trinity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 [quote name='Trinity']Good Deal Gigi! I'll keep my fingers crossed it is a false.....let us know either way. Trinity[/quote] No go. After I called and got the prices, my sister called and talked to the vet's office. They said NOT to bring her in. And of course, my sister will listen to THEM over me and my expert friends here on dogo. They said that with bigger dogs, it's harder to tell if they are pregnant and she may not even show at this point. Even with an xray there is no promise the pups will show up since she is a bigger dog (95 lbs).... :roll: So, I guess we wait. I'm very pi$$ed off about this. You have NO clue, but I can't show that to my sister or she'll get all pi$$y with me and the feud will start. I guess all I can do at this point is off my support. I've told them to watch her really close from now on, and that she will most likely stop eating 24 hours before whelping, not to mention the nesting. Thankfully, both my sister and her hubby are at home 24 x 7 since he lost his job (she is a stay at home mom). A little background on this...both the bitch and dog are registered and the dog (Mac) is a great hunter. Belle's papers are OK, nothing special, though. They haven't seen Mac's papers yet. If he's got good papers, then they [i]MIGHT [/i]have her hips certified after the pups are here. Some how, I doubt that will happen though cuz it cost us over $300 to get Kika's hips certified. They have the underground fence and that is how this happened. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Ahhhhh sheesh, well whatcha gonna do? Well you are doing the best you can and certainly helping your sister to the best of your abilities, which is very commendable. I am sure you feel you are treading a fine line when it comes to possibly alienating her if you said all the things you were really thinking! BTW, my dad often used survey radiography to determine litter size....and he bred Mals which are quite large as we all know and this method never failed to detect puppies once their skeletons had calcified. Later, Trinity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I think they are just stupid for not taking her in. I really do. Trinity, I had a litter (well, my female did) back in Sept of 2001. Now that I've been through that and have come to this board, I would never EVER do it again. I did have the help of both of my breeders to make sure they were a good match (I have both parents) but I am NOT a breeder. I do NOT know exactly what breed standard is, other than what I read on line. Kika was a show dog when we got her. She needed one major to get her championship and we didn't finish her (we've NEVER shown). We were going to show Kenzo but didn't cuz there isn't much in the area. Took him to a show, just to check it out (didn't show him) and met his breeder. He took Kenzo home and was going to show him for us. That's when he realized how tall he was. So, we bought a wicket. He was as big as you can get for standard. I was also told that Shibas stop growing UP at 1 yr. At 18 mths we checked him again and he was still at 16.5". Now he's over 17". :o I feel like crap that I bred them since I know SO much more about this whole process, but at least all three pups have been altered and so have Kika and Kenzo. It will not happen again. Anyway, enough beating myself up. Just talked to my brother who agrees, they should see the vet. Why wait? They need to have this done..... I think I'll just drop hints...in a nice way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseatthebusstop Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 [quote name='gigishiba'] So, I guess we wait. I'm very pi$$ed off about this. You have NO clue, but I can't show that to my sister or she'll get all pi$$y with me and the feud will start. [/quote] Don't upset her if there are puppies we want to see photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Don't worry, you will all be getting photos to see! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Here are the pix I took of Belle yesterday. Hard to tell since she's SOO black (Maddy is in the background). [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQDeAl0TGIB*5H4!r6Mw4*TmedGUFeKB4DKZDewpz8gxKaEvrJ5foww2o3!9ExKml0S2c2DMuH33u3y2FOUzs82hAoOdEPHrg195639FAg4/DCAO0004.JPG?dc=4675403479535703947[/img] [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQCzBFwT3H9*5H4!r6Mw44m6azzKiZkC0wcTuWZeTJixUll9KJJ!8lvg94rQ3jeXmgXPWFeP3L1y0zKs5VjsIuNL!iJI6BqC0Db5HUcwCmY/DCAO0003.JPG?dc=4675403479661896449[/img] Belle is on the left...[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQDeAl4TVIB*5H4!r6Mw4!a2zJyJVNixjBn!mUJTBZUbejKlSQt1WeuCxpFtLjcexIbtevKKKMLF5tQW1!z6oBEfZ75ek3t8i2wYM5bYggA/DCAO0005.JPG?dc=4675403479665198802[/img] Big yawn from Belle! [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQC2BF8TkIB*5H4!r6Mw43JXKUtmjo6xR16w1cYY8MqfgvuOYdSKPfvS7SkwTHkiW7vqMjL6DRj!gzcMtiQjA3otQgyQUygxJnC6gzrnot4/DCAO0006.JPG?dc=4675403479666445933[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 From the pictures she does not look pregnant to me but Sometimes pictures lie.Better get ready just in case and if she does not have any puppies she will definately need to see the vet. Are you sure they did not "plan" this breeding and lie to you about it? If they really need the money they might have thought it would be a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 [quote name='laduenda']From the pictures she does not look pregnant to me but Sometimes pictures lie.Better get ready just in case and if she does not have any puppies she will definately need to see the vet. Are you sure they did not "plan" this breeding and lie to you about it? If they really need the money they might have thought it would be a quick fix.[/quote] If you look close you can see Belle's boobies are filling! No, they did not plan it. He still had his job when this happened! Besides, if they wanted to breed, they would have bred Maddy. Her registry is better than Belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 I will say that when Belle is sitting down her tummy is a LOT larger than normal. It's as if her rib cage is trying to touch the ground. I hope she's NOT pregnant, yet in the back of my mind I want the puppies (I know, that's bad, but I love puppies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 [quote name='Mei-Mei']It's hard not to love puppies and want all of them, isn't it? I guess for Belle it would be better if she isn't carrying a litter. When do you find out for sure?[/quote] Well, I calculated her due date of a week from today (1/7) but a chart I found on line said she's due next Wednesday (1/8)... Her boobies are filling...so it's either for real or a false pregnancy. MAYBE NOW THEY'LL GET THEIR DOGS FIXED! Doubt it. As I was over there yesterday checking Belle out for them (I'm the resident dog expert, don't ya know :wink: ), my sister mentioned that she didn't mind if they were fixed or not! :o Guess I'll have to find some articles on the health benefits of altering and email them to her. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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