deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 do any of you own or know this kind of dog? I noticed that popularity of the breed jumped dramatically after the "california killer dog" trial. I'll admit it peaked my interest of the breed as well, more from a science perspective than a need for a killer dog. I think it is absolutly pathetic the statistics I read about the "jump" after the trial. I found 2 very contradictory webpages about this dog a breeder page that flaunted a fighting history and instinct in this dog and gloated its ability to kill anything within 200 pounds of it. Then I clicked his gallery link to take a look his "stock" and to my dissmay I saw at least dozen pictures of a number of differant guys who looked like they were right out of some ghetto pride "kill everyone I see" rap video trying to look tough with their huge fighting dogs. The other site was a very well put together ( :roll: like that means much these days) rescue page. it had much more info and said in the breed history that the dogs were fought very briefly in europe when they were shipped back from the canary islands for that purpose. but that the breed should not be considered a "fighting" breed and rather is very confident and should not fight or strike out unless given good reason. but that they are guardians by nature (something about farm and livestock guards) so what do you guys know? the more I read the more I like them (except when I hear they are rabid beast killers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 [quote name='deepseasnake']do any of you own or know this kind of dog? I noticed that popularity of the breed jumped dramatically after the "california killer dog" trial. I'll admit it peaked my interest of the breed as well, more from a science perspective than a need for a killer dog. I think it is absolutly pathetic the statistics I read about the "jump" after the trial. I found 2 very contradictory webpages about this dog a breeder page that flaunted a fighting history and instinct in this dog and gloated its ability to kill anything within 200 pounds of it. Then I clicked his gallery link to take a look his "stock" and to my dissmay I saw at least dozen pictures of a number of differant guys who looked like they were right out of some ghetto pride "kill everyone I see" rap video trying to look tough with their huge fighting dogs. The other site was a very well put together ( :roll: like that means much these days) rescue page. it had much more info and said in the breed history that the dogs were fought very briefly in europe when they were shipped back from the canary islands for that purpose. but that the breed should not be considered a "fighting" breed and rather is very confident and should not fight or strike out unless given good reason. but that they are guardians by nature (something about farm and livestock guards) so what do you guys know? the more I read the more I like them (except when I hear they are rabid beast killers)[/quote] I would suspect that neither site was totally accurate. I have seen many a site try to sugar coat a breed to make adopting a rescue more likely - I've also seen many a site that caters to the kind of people who want 'tough' dogs. I would not rely on either to make any sure assumptions about a breed. Investigaton of a rare breed should include speaking to actual owners in person about their *adult* dogs that they own and live with to get an overview of what the breed is like - something I think you cannot totally understand from the info given by owners of immature dogs or pups. For example I see many sites/ads extolling the virtues of the American Bulldog ranging from 'killer dogs' to 'family guardians' to 'great family dogs' and the people with pups seem real happy with them. I do see a sudden high increase in the numbers in this breed in local shelters since a person not so far from me has started breeding and selling them. I mean a serious upswing of dogs in the 3-4 year old range seem to be popping up all over the place needing rehoming. That makes me suspect they are not so great without a really knowledgeable owner doing the raising and training of them. It would not surprise me to find out the same about the Presa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 thats interesting because I'm also on a quest to find everything I can on the American Bulldog. As you said I come to the same thing as with the Presa just not quite as extreme. from the sound of your post you didn't sound sure on the reasons suurrounding the spur in addoptions, purely out of curiosity I wonder if it may be something wrong with the breeder, since you seemed to think they mostly came from the one guy. But on the other hand I do know how people get with new puppies. :roll: I also know how ANY dog gets in a home without proper training. thank you guest, I enjoyed your view and apprectiate the lack of negativity and sarcasam. If all our guests were like you this would be a better board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Hey i think they are cute, they look like good dogs. We could get one. Find out lots of info!! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 [quote name='deepseasnake']thats interesting because I'm also on a quest to find everything I can on the American Bulldog. As you said I come to the same thing as with the Presa just not quite as extreme. from the sound of your post you didn't sound sure on the reasons suurrounding the spur in addoptions, purely out of curiosity I wonder if it may be something wrong with the breeder, since you seemed to think they mostly came from the one guy. But on the other hand I do know how people get with new puppies. :roll: I also know how ANY dog gets in a home without proper training. thank you guest, I enjoyed your view and apprectiate the lack of negativity and sarcasam. If all our guests were like you this would be a better board[/quote] I hope you could hear my warning too - people who are trying to sell you pups and people who only have pups can not or will not give you the real scoop on a breed - talking to rescuers is one way to learn stuff but even better is talking to people who own a dog like you want to own. I am really concerned at the numbers in this breed that are dumped and I suspect highly the problem is one of some sort of aggression whether to humans or animals though of course knowing bull breeds it could really be chewing :roll: too. I do wonder why you are seeking only 'rare breeds' there are many more readily available and better known temperament dogs available out there with similar characteristics in terms of coat and size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 I'm a dog lover guest, I love all dogs and love rare animals, I like to be looked at, asked questions and the like. I try to increase my awarness level of all breeds that interest me. This particualr breed (Presa/Dogo) has a quite unique "look" one that at I have not seen matched by your "more popular dogs." Dont worry Guest, I've much experience with exotic animals and almost a lifetime spent with large and huge dogs. I'm quite at home with gargantuan animals (grizzly bear story) and feel they are the only way to go. To answer your question, I want a "rare" breed because I dont want a popular one, exclude my boxer he's perfect. For instance I've done much looking into the Neopolatin mastiff, and had been planning on being a proud owner until I read more in depth about his inability to run at full speed, so now I'm stuck deciding if I could provide the right home for one right now. as it looks right now I can't. So I will wait for my old age to set in until I to can not run :-?. Dont worry the presa is not looking like my perfect match either but I still like to look. Guest, I will spend years looking at a breed until I even consider the purchase of any animal be it dog, exotic cat or reptile. So please give me some credit as I have givin you. I'm not an impulse buyer, I simply like this forum and what it has to say, but I do not consider it "gospal" I like info and when I get it "here" I cross check it "there" you dont need to worry about me I've got it under control. We need to worry about the guy posting in the Akita thread, :) if not for guys like me who would owner the huge and rare dogs? militants and cocaine farmers! (just saw collateral damage with Arnold, movie sucked but its got me on the cocaine farmer thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 thats the thing Mei, I dont think I believe that "breed fighter thing" I've read alot more sites (now) that say they were breed guardians rather than dog killers, but maybe thats all the same thing :-? anyway yeah I watched that trial on court TV almost everyday. I was outraged that the purchase population jumped so much, people are sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 They are incredible looking creatures! Just massive! Not for me though....I can look and wonder all I want, but I could never own one. God, they are beautiful, though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Deep, what kind of "exotic cat". Please say you mean domesticated... I have a real hard time with people owning tigers, pumas, lions, bobcats, etc. We had a lady come in when I worked at Petsmart who had a linx... cutest little guy you ever saw! And his paws were huge! But later after I quit I hear the thing attacked a rott. Lucky for the dog that this store had an instore vetrinary clinic!!! :o The lady and her linx needless to say were banned from the store. I also saw a servil go through there (he was being declawed poor thing) who was just as spectacular, but just as wild. I am one of those "it belongs in the wild" kinda people... but if you are willing to give the animal the lifestyle it needs... well.... I just hate to be negative! Go with a bengal, it's a domesticated cat with the spots of a leopard! The best of both worlds, and it is a fairly rare breed of cat, very pretty! Sorry don't mean to rag :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 yeah I read that webpage to, maybe differant page same thing though [quote]The breed was selected and bred specifically for organized fights and became an extremely game, powerful and able fighting machine ( The Atlas of Dog Breeds of the World, Bonnie Wilcox and Chirs Walkowicz). [/quote] and it did convince me until I read up on some other sites, I'll try and go find them for you. I guess what gets me is, I dont know if the authors know this specific breed or if they just found some of the same info we did and paraphrased it, truth is I dont know. But I will find some sites that took the other side and show them to you, to see what you think. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 I guess I'm just trying to stay neutral on this one, cuz they do [b]look [/b]like fighters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 [url]http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art2609.asp[/url] these guys kinda talk about what I mean basically said they were breed for farming then were used for fighting but your right that the popular opinion seems to be that they were breed for fighting :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 yes something I noticed to and for what its worth the the 2 whipple dogs were the more more mastiffy type, must mean pit bulls are okay then :D I think the dog has its roots in gaurding and fighting, not a whole lot of differance comparativly between the 2 when being considered for a house dog anyway bane was one name I cant remember the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 hera thats right, the godess of the underworld and evil Bane speaks for itself I feel its sad that they were put down but I wonder what their lifes were like before, when they lived with the felon, I dont imagine it being to bright and happy with names like that :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 From what I've heard, Bane, the dog that supposedly was most "involved" in the attack on the woman, is of questionable breed. Some say he was 1/2 presa, 1/2 english mastiff, some say he was a purebred presa, some don't know. Either way, presas (from what I've heard) aren't a breed for most dog owners, and there are a lot of poor breeders out there who are cashing in on the next "killer dog breed", so if you do decide they're the breed for you, make sure you find a good breeder. I don't think presas have too much relation to pit bulls, I could be wrong, though :lol: They have a more "guardian" type attitude than most dogs, which is something you should consider. I think too, that some can be pretty dog aggressive (true with any "bully breed"), so that could be a problem if you want to have other dogs. Again, find a good breeder, and they'll try to match you up with a dog that suits your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted August 25, 2002 Author Share Posted August 25, 2002 like I said earlier goo, I decieded against owning one I'm just curious. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeydog Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Oops :oops: ... I didn't see that part :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcbyrd Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 i would definately say that they are very beautiful and large dog. they look to be pretty similar to pits and mastiffs. do you know what was used to create the breed? they look pretty awesome. i have a hard time believing that just because someone breeds a dog for fighting that they will always be fighters (not saying anyone said that). i think its all in the owner. give em love, get love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepseasnake Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 yeah, I agree with you but if I'm attacked or more importantly if the dog THINKS I'm attacked and deciedes to defend me, which is in their nature, it's gonna automatically be my/my dogs fault because I've got the dog that killed Diane Whipple! you know its like even if the dogs does its job it'll be put down just from some sh!ty press okay I gotta talk in the mourning just drove 12 hours and I"m beat, just had to logon to see if smoosh caught up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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