Line Breeding

[Guest Anonymous]

Ok,
For the 3rd time,I studied and learned every dogs fault in my pedigree for 4 years before I even decided to do it..I studied the ancestors temperments found out how strong the hips where and anything elese gentic that would not be a good reason to do it,but when it all boiled down to it the good out weighed the bad..It was to me the best way to get the type that I wanted,so I did it and am glad to this day that I did..

I did get faults in some of the pups,like bad fronts,not enough reach and drive in the movement,some heads that where not blocky enough for what I liked,round eyes and markings that where to light,but the pups that where good in the litters where really,really good..I am also glad to say there where no bad hips,elbows or temperments in any of the pups that I produced from linebreeding because I did learn alot and knew what I was doing. :D

I would never breed as close as mother/son or son/mother etc..The reason I bred half/brother sister is because I knew what I was going to get,as I did study the pedigree's for so long.I was not one of those people that thought Oh, I will just breed these 2 dogs together and hope for the best..Granted there are alot of people out there that have done that and it is wrong on there part.. :evil:

I to also have alot of mentors in the Rottweiler breed, and before I decide to do any breeding I ask for thier advice first,but even experienced breeders can be wrong sometimes and are. :oops:

My female just had one pup that was a linebreeding on her grandfather and the great grandfather on the fathers side of the pedigree,but it is also a total out cross except for that one dog.When I outcross I always like to have one common ancestor somewhere,so you can keep some of the type you have already,so needless to say I really cannot wait to see what this pup will mature to be like when he is older..When you linebreed you basically now what you are going to get,but when you outcross you do not have a clue as to the type you are going to produce at all.My pup looks really good now,but that could change as he gets older.But like with anything you can only prey he is the best pup you have ever produced. 8)

I have seen alot of breeders do nothing but interbreed and linebreed and never outcross..Now I can tell you they have taught me alot about what to do and not to do when you linebreed..And if you know what you are doing you can get rid of any gentic faults that may be in your pedigree,but that takes years and years to do.

Anyway my advice is not to just go ahead and do it,because if you do you are going to be in real trouble..Like I said before study,study,study and learn as much as you can about ALL THE DOGS IN YOUR PEDIGREE!

Remember there are no stupid dogs just stupid owners!

ROTTIE

[GSDmom]

Ditto on that! Good post Rottie! I will add one thing, if you linebreed all the time then an outcross is needed every few generations to add fresh blood BUT study pedigrees until you are blue in the face and then study some more. Actually, we all should do that for every breeding! Plus, like Rottie said, when you outcross it's good to have one common ancestor you REALLY like in there! Good Post!

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='sixjollydogs']:o Ok... do have a question about line-breeding. As noted earlier...I know NOTHING about it...all my furkids are "mutts"...and loved just as much as if they had just won Crufts....now hee is the question.

1. When you line-breed aren't you increasing the problems of genetic issues...matching recessive traits ...?

2. When you say line-breeding...what do you mean...how close...immediate family, the doggie equivelent of cousins ....????

Just wondering and would like to learn.[/quote]
1) No you are decreasing them if you know what you are doing
2) linebreeding varies 'uncle' to 'niece' breeding dogs with one grandparent (preferably a good one!) in common, breeding mother/son and daughter/father is also line breeding of the type called inbreeding
breeding cousins with more than one grandparent in common etc

some reading for anyone who might want to know what they are doing
George Padgett CONTROL OF CANINE GENETIC DISEASES
Carmen Battaglia Breeding Better Dogs
and Patricia Wilkie FUTURE DOG: BREEDING FOR GENETIC SOUNDNESS
a video Pat & Bob Hastings PUPPY PUZZLE: EVALUATING STRUCTURAL QUALITY
ought to give the unknowledgeable here a good head start on missing the making of errors most novices make including the 'breed to the top dog' error and the always outcross thoughts etc
the top dog and top kennel thing always floors me - don't novices ever listen to the breed history and how the time everyone bred to dog such and such has spread through the breed a serious genetic problem its nearly impossible to breed away from due to the use of 'top dogs'?[/quote]




Guest, you seem knowledgeable, but you are not telling the entire story. In-breeding and line-breeding: You [b]ARE[/b] increasing the possibility of bringing the hidden genetic defects to the surface, and doing so are able to either eliminate them (by neutering or spaying) or by breeding that defect out of your bloodline.

On the other hand, there is a great possibility that a person will "fix" the gene by in-breeding and line-breeding and this is why great care must be taken when using this method of breeding.

Line and in-breeding has it's place. Anyone that knows anything about genetics also knows that out-crossing, selectively out-crossing, is needed to stir the gene pool, avoid gene fixing, avoid gene drift and mutations.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='sixjollydogs']:o Ok... do have a question about line-breeding. As noted earlier...I know NOTHING about it...all my furkids are "mutts"...and loved just as much as if they had just won Crufts....now hee is the question.

1. When you line-breed aren't you increasing the problems of genetic issues...matching recessive traits ...?

2. When you say line-breeding...what do you mean...how close...immediate family, the doggie equivelent of cousins ....????

Just wondering and would like to learn.[/quote]
1) No you are decreasing them if you know what you are doing
2) linebreeding varies 'uncle' to 'niece' breeding dogs with one grandparent (preferably a good one!) in common, breeding mother/son and daughter/father is also line breeding of the type called inbreeding
breeding cousins with more than one grandparent in common etc

some reading for anyone who might want to know what they are doing
George Padgett CONTROL OF CANINE GENETIC DISEASES
Carmen Battaglia Breeding Better Dogs
and Patricia Wilkie FUTURE DOG: BREEDING FOR GENETIC SOUNDNESS
a video Pat & Bob Hastings PUPPY PUZZLE: EVALUATING STRUCTURAL QUALITY
ought to give the unknowledgeable here a good head start on missing the making of errors most novices make including the 'breed to the top dog' error and the always outcross thoughts etc
the top dog and top kennel thing always floors me - don't novices ever listen to the breed history and how the time everyone bred to dog such and such has spread through the breed a serious genetic problem its nearly impossible to breed away from due to the use of 'top dogs'?[/quote]




Guest, you seem knowledgeable, but you are not telling the entire story. In-breeding and line-breeding: You [b]ARE[/b] increasing the possibility of bringing the hidden genetic defects to the surface, and doing so are able to either eliminate them (by neutering or spaying) or by breeding that defect out of your bloodline.

On the other hand, there is a great possibility that a person will "fix" the gene by in-breeding and line-breeding and this is why great care must be taken when using this method of breeding.

Line and in-breeding has it's place. Anyone that knows anything about genetics also knows that out-crossing, selectively out-crossing, is needed to stir the gene pool, avoid gene fixing, avoid gene drift and mutations.

[Guest Anonymous]

OOOppppsss, sorry about the double post.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='ROTTIE']Hi,
I have done linebreeding twice now..I breed my female to her half brother and then breed her again to his brother.. In that litter there was 9 pups and 5 of them where excellent in comformation,movement and temperment,I did keep a female out of that litter and she is stunning.The second time I did it I got 15 pups and out of 15,9 of them where awesome..Out of that breeding I kept 2 males and they are excellent in everyway,but before I did that breeding I talked to a lot of diffrent breeders that knew the dogs in my lines and had seen them first hand to know what there good and bad points where..I had to make sure I could weigh them out so the bad ones did not get the stronger gene in the pups..I had a really hard time to decide what I was going to do,but I finally decided to do it because there was one dog in my pedigree that I really wanted to double up on.And you know what I am glad I did it as I produced some excellent pups,but remember not everybody is as lucky as me not even the experienced breeder..


Anyway I would recommend linebreeding if you know what you are doing..Have you studied the pedigrees to see which faults the dogs have generations back..I only ask that because those faults can come back out and bite you in the bum later..If it is faults like bad toplines,fronts,rear ends or movement, it will take generations and generations to get rid of..The breeders that had the faults in your lines in the first place worked long and hard to get them out,so remember just because your dog is an excellent example of the breed does not mean her whole pedigree is..You have to really know what you are doing before you breed like that..

If you anybody would like they can go to my webpage and see what I have produced when I linebred..The male on my home page is a half/brother sister breeding from the 15 pup litter, I could not have asked for a better dog when he was born..I really hope I helped you out with your question... :roll:

[url]http://www.vaccarorotts.freeservers.com[/url][/quote]




[b][color=red]
Okay, so what did you do with the 10 pups that weren't "excellent in conformation...." or "awsome"???[/color][/b]

[Guest Anonymous]

They where fixed and given to my friends and family,so needless to say they have excellent homes and are well looked after..Not to mention the fact that I see them all the time to..

Is that a good enough answer for you?If not let me know and I will be happy to assist you further..

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='K']Guest Treavor I have one of those pups you mentioned not from ROTTIE of course but from a very reputable Saint breeder here, he does not conform to the standard in any way due to his lack of a mask or mantle or bib and no white tail tip as his tail is all white! does this mean he should never have been born?? does this mean the breeder treated him any different , does this mean I love him any less....NO...but he was there in a litter of 16 with 14 of them being very darn close to perfect..from champion, healthy,well bred parentage it was a well researched and well informed out cross breeding...no one no matter how carefully and well they breed can help a "non conformation" pup coming out now and again......[/quote]


I meant no disrespect. Where genetics are concerned, nothing is absolute (that was a quote from someone else --- can't remember who, tho). I am totally for spaying and neutering the pet quality pups.

I know of some breeders that if the pup wasn't perfect, instead of selling on a spay/neuter contract, the pup(s) was/were euthanized. Actually, more like being hit with a hammer or put in the deep freezer. These are not my type of folks that I want to be associated with, either! AND YES, you are wondering.....I gave them a piece of my mind about their methods of disposal and why they were doing that in the first place. It fell on deaf ears!