Canis erectus

Horsefeathers, sometimes it's best not to fret overly much about such things. If she's been a good client in the past, and wasn't overtly upset with you or your clinic, you'll probably have her buisness back if/when she decides to get another dog. Folks seem awfully particular about their dog's groomers and it seems that once they find one's that suites their needs they will continue to keep returning. There's a whole mess of different things that could have killed her dog, and without proper labwork no one will ever know now. It seems to me that if you continue to pursue the matter with your client it may sound to her as if you're being overly defensive. You might want to just send her a simple sympathy card in the mail signed by you and the grooming staff (if you have any other staff). Sometimes a simple little thing like that can be the most appreciated thing. Also, I think that leveling any accusations at the other veterinarian will only make the poor woman decide that she needs to choose between you or him. I figure it's just an all-around rule of thumb not to slander or discredit other local buinesess, whenever that kind of situation escalates it never causes anything but more problems, even if the other guy really is a bigoted @$$. It's nice to know that you take this much interest in your client and I hope it all ends up OK.

Those guys really are bonafide sickos. My fiance once told me about a trip she took with her god-son to the capital. There on the white house lawn (with dozens of children present) was a PETA member playing horribly graphic footage of a cattle slauterhouse with the volume amplified to grotesque proportions. My fiance got so upset, not just for her god-son but for all the kids present, that she went and had out screaming at him for something like twenty minutes. Believe me, I've witnessed her full verbal assaults first hand (not directed at me, mind you) and it's ALMOST enough to make be feel sorry for that sop of a blankity-blank-blank PETA guy. Anyway, it took my fiance a week to finally be rid of the nightmares, and I hate to think what it did to that poor kid.

I agree with most of whats been said so far. In my origional post I based what I said on my own conclusions after analyzing the limited content of the article and coming up with what I felt likely happened. It could very well be that the dog is blatantly vicious, in which case it should be destroyed as I've had too many close calls myself to tolerate any blatant aggresion. The only thing I can say for certain is that the Pit Bull in question most definatley should have a very thourough temperment test before anything further is decided. On a related side note, a few minutes after making my last post in this thread last night I went to take my girls for their final night's potty (Keep reading this is all a bit too coincidental to be believable). I don't have a fenced yard so I have to take them out on leashes, and Zoey was wearing her spare collar as I had her normal one in the wash (Yes, I wash my dog's collars, quite sniggering...). When I say that the spare was one of those cheap collars with the plastic snap buckle, you can probablt guess where this is going. Anyway, Zoey catches sight of a raccoon about 50 yards across the way and maybe never having seen one before, she goes ballistic. She hit the end of the leash, twists, and the leash (I think) catches on something. The plastic buckle snapped and the next thing I know I've lost a black dog at night who's on her way for a one-on-one with a raccoon. Nothing ended up happening, the coon went up a tree before I could decide whether to let China loose after it as well, and I caught up with Zoey beneath that said tree. The point of that story, aside from being eerily coincidental, being that even the simplest oversight (like me not checking the buckle regularly for integrety) can be the catalyst for something tragic to happen. I was somewhat lucky, my dog wasn't aggresively going after another dog or a person, I was also damn lucky that she didn't catch that raccoon which is fully capable of killing dogs larger than her size. One thing I can say is that I've learned my lesson, and if the Pit Bull owner is able to keep her dogs (actually even if she's not), and is capable of learning from her mistakes, hopefully she's learned her's a well. One last thing regarding Chessies. In Southern Maryland where this breed was developed, the dogs were expected to be territorial and defend it's owners property. This still holds true today, particullarly in the rural areas where society hasn't quite yet dragged it's feet into the 20th Century. This further points out that ANY breed is capable of an assault no matter what one thinks a breed is likely or unlikely to do.

I'm not 100% behind the idea of the dog being destroyed, there is alot about the story we don't know. For starters, the victim's wife is uniformed and/or ignorant as there is a reason the dogs isn't immediatly euthanized. Both of the Pits are in quarantine as that is the standard procedure for most states in a dog-bite-man incedent, the purpose being to rule out the possibility of rabies symptoms showing. Sure the dog could be destroyed and a rabies test done on the brain tissues, but that is a far expensive procedure than a simple quarantine. It might entirely be the best thing to euthanize this dog if it truly is a threat to people, but we don't know that's the case. It seems to me that the scenario was an accident, a dog aggresive animal's leash broke and the victim essentially had gotten himself in the middle of a dog fight. Haven't we all been taught not to be in the middle of dog fights? Granted the gentleman hadn't been thinking about that when he took his dog off the ground, but you know what they say about hindsight huh? The point being that I know of dozens of dog aggresive dogs and this scene could have happened to any number of people I've met, just an accident. But again, we don't know the whole deal, and that might not be the case. On a related note, my finace was attacked (no, mauled) by a dog when she was a little girl. She was unattended in a parking lot when she decided to talk to the nice Chesapeak Bay Retriever in the back of a pick up. Well, Chessies are territorial, and this was Southern Maryland where dogs are expected to be territorial, she encroached on 'his' truck, and payed the price for it. She still has quite large scars on her arm to this day. At any rate my fiance's family pleaded with the dog's owner not to euthanize the animal, and tried to convince the guy for weeks that the dog was only doing what he was expected to do. Of course the dog ended up being destroyed anyway, but at least my fiance's parents had the sense to realize that it was their own fault that that had happened, and that as mankind, we shouldn't condemn an animal that only did what we designed it to do.

I may have to try the bitter apple bit, I don't have a barker, but I do have a howler/grumbler/talker. See my avatar, that's the view I have of China about 80% of the time, lol! Seriously, I've tried all kinds of differnt stratagies, from shake cans to ingnoring her, and so far nothings worked out. The real truth is that I'm probably stuck with her jabbering as my fiance has encouraged it in the past ("What does China say? What? Speak up, I can't hear you, what are you talking about China?...). Oh well, it's not really too bad. At least it doesn't bother the neighbors, and she's only half as annoying as my cockatoo, Fred can be. I'm still waiting for the day that we get new neighbors who don't know about the bird decide to call CPS on us because they think we're lashing children with a cat-o'-nine-tails. :lol:

Oh what fun! Did they end up raising much rescue money?

In my research, I've come to the conclusion that if you trace the pit bulls lineage back, waaaay back, you can find that they were actually used to drove cattle to the market in Europe. This would have been long before they were Pit Bulls, or really even the old Bulldogs. The Bull dog then come about from that origional droving dog in order to bait the bulls. This dog was eventually made it's way to America were it was bred with various terriers and became a bull-fighting, and then a dog-fighting breed. In a round-about way I guess you could say that they were once herding dogs, but it is incorrect to label them as all such herding purposes and instincts were bred out of it long before they were bred to be Pit Bulls.

I've always been fascinated by hunting and hunting breeds with the possible execption of a full blown fox hunt which all sounds a bit over the top to me. It's really something else to see a hunting dog go to work and do what it does best. I know the hazards of 'hunting' dogs myself. China is actually fills the scavanger role more than anything else, but Zoey zones out into 'chase-mode' at the sight of anything small and moving outdoors. This can become a problem if someone happens to be attached to her by a leash. Earlier today actually I almost bit dirt as I was walking the dogs and not paying attention to my immediate surroundings. And neither was Zoey, so it was a big surprise to me when she suddenly noticed a squirril out of the corner of her eye about six feet away from her. As this is a large dog that can go from zero to something-like-forty before her second step things could have been quite unpleasant if I didn't have a Husky obliviously pulling me along in the opposite direction to counter-balance me out. *Whew* That'll teach me to pay more attention the next time. I would spend time trying to discourage the behaviour, but I know it really wouldn't get me anywhere. Some dogs just have that "hunting instinct", and it doesn't matter how well trained or obedient they normally are, that'll always give way to their stronger instincts. The rest of us just have to put up with it. :roll:

You know, if you're patient I bet you could find the ideal mutt at you local animal control or humane society. You'd want to look for an adult dog, probably at least a year old, so that you can have a good idea of what the coat is like. You wouldn't know it by seeing her picture but Zoey (on the left) really has a dream coat. Her coat is silky and rather human like, it has no undercoat, requires no clipping, and only sheds any noticable amount of fur for less than two months out of the year. This is all really funny when you consider that she'd a Borzoi mix. The actual point being that you never know what sorts of results can be brought about by hybrid vigor. Really, if you're looking for something specific, a mutt is probably what you're looking for. The only problem is finding that particular mutt in a sea of thousands. By the way, a Boston Terrier is a great idea, though maybe a little too pushy if their existing dog is older.

No matter what parents should and shoudn't do with their children is ultimately irrelevant. With the victim oriented society that most of us are surrounded with, it is our responsibility as dog owners to fend off crumb-snatcher attacks on our dogs. It's not always easy, and sure as hell not fair, but that's the way it is. My China is not stranger friendly, but I do not worry where I should or shouldn't take her because, left to her own devices she is more well behaved than 90% of all children and dogs (which is really funny because I do minimal training). That, and I remain aware of what my dogs are doing and what other peoples' children and dogs are doing even though they may not. As for any parents who doesn't at least attempt to teach basic dog saftey to their children: SHAME on them. I say that as both a parent and a dog owner, my little girl is 9 months old and is already being taught respect for the animals of the house. Dog saftey is just as generic and important to teach to children as is traffic saftey (look both ways...), household saftey (don't touch, hot!), or car saftey (buckle up). I mean, c'mon there are BASIC rules all people, both children and adults, should know about animals in general. Honestly speaking I have almost as much touble with adults trying to reach at and grab ahold of China, which is even more of a problem because the taller a person is, the more nervous she is of them. But what can I do? I can't teach everyone in the world the proper way to respect animals. All I can do is remain aware of potential "dog-leeches" and if I can't fend them off, at can at least count on my happy little ding-a-ling Zoey to run interference for China. By the way, this probably won't be a popular comment, but I think it would serve some children good to get nipped by a dog sometime. It seems that some children (and adults) can only learn some things from experience.

I'm in disagreement about Labradoodles being a 'designer breed'. There was/is an actual intent in crossbreeding these two types of dogs. I'm not 100% certain but I believe it started out in Australia as a program to create a dog that is more 'dog allergy friendly'. The idea was two crossbreed Labs and Poodles in order to get a dog of a desired size, the great disposition and trainablity of both the origional breeds, with far less shedding than a Lab and far less coat maintainance than a Poodle. The last I heard about the project was a few years ago and at that time they had about a 25% success rate in achieving their goals in each litter and hadn't quite gotten a dog that bred true to type yet. Of course there are folks who hop on the "idea bandwagon" who had heard about Labradoodles and thought that would be the next novel thing in dog breeds, and alot of those (if not most) are just back yard breeders producing unsound problematic animals (does this sound familiar to anyone familiar with Cockapoo?). There are those however, who are striving to create a breed of dog for a specific purpose (just as mankind has always done) and who are intent on creating an animal upmost quality, such as the breeders featured in this thread. Just because a breed hasn't been around for a century or so doesn't make it designer, just new or in the process. I for one can certainly see the value in a dog that has the best qualities of both Labs and Poodles. *If anyone is familiar with 'Daisies', now THAT'S a useless designer breed.

I say let her go... Nah, just kidding... REPORT HER!

Adopt a Greyhound or whippet! If you're looking for a somewhat smaller dog a whippet would be better, but I'm not sure what adoption programs are available for retired track whippets. Either way both dogs are quite similar. Both shed very little, although the whippets coat is finer and sheds less noticable hair. They are very amendable toward other dogs but might react in a predatory manner toward smaller animals (though not always the case). They don't care for a alot of rough-housing , so if your Golden Retreiver is a young dog who like to horseplay it may not be a good match. If your retreiver is a somewhat older dog, the calm demeanor of greyhounds and whippets places less stress on existing pets in the home with their arrival. The downside is that these are not dogs to be let off-leash oustide of a high fenced area. Period. Another minus is that some of these dogs have debilitating injuries that keep them from racing (anything from as minor as a broken nail to as major as a spinal disc problem). And the best part is, there are many of these dogs needing to be adopted into good loving homes all over the country!

Unfortunately the "Other People's Kids" scenario is always going to exist, and is something that, as dog owners, we all have to be vigilant about. Sadly what creates the situation is not a lack od education, but a lack of the childern's parents attention to their kids and teaching them very basic common sense. It's not necassarily the kid's fault but that doesn't make it any less infuriating. When I take my girls out and we get 'confronted' by children you'd think the little booger-eaters would want to pet the dog that's at the end of her leash, all slobbering tongue and just begging for one of the little spawn to pull her ears or tail. No, of course not. They want to pet the dog whose sitting meekly behind me with her face turned away and her ears back (her ears are almost always back, but as a universal rule of mammalian communication, most creatures should percieve laid-back ears as a warning). They still want to molest her even though China moves away from them, I've even had instances where her growling at them doesn't cease their advances. All the while, short of grabbing the children and shaking them senseless (which tends to get you arrested), they just have no respect when you tell them to leave the poor beast alone! Sometimes the parents will be right there, staring placidly at the whole scene while they are too busy talking on their cell phones to bother with what thier dependants are doing. Sometimes there won't be a parent anywhere in sight. or earshot for that matter. My point is... that children are a threat to dogs and humanity and that they should all be destroyed!!! No wait, that wasn't my point. I seem to have forgotten what it was now...

Speaking of making turd logos, on clinic posting board at my work is a flyer for a couple of kids who are offering 'lawn cleaning' services. They call themselves the "Pooper Troopers", quite amusing. I think that the funniest part of the whole thing really, is that the community I live in is apparently affluent enough to pay someone else to pick up their own dogs' turds! :D

Hahah, I had a freind from Guam who ownes two 'Boonie Dogs'. She told me that they call them Marrianas (sp?) Racing Hounds and are almost considered to be a breed of sorts by the locals. I found this funny because one of her dogs looks like a Yellow Lab mix and the other looks about how you described Bailey.

Very interesting, I've been hearing more and more about Pit Bulls & Pit Mixes being used as service dogs (Although Bailey looks like an AmStaff to me, yes?), and hearing debates about many of them having a higher trainability than Labs. At any rate, Bailey is a beautiful girl and she looks quite smart there with her pack.

I'd seen quite a few rare breeds in my time. Most notable among those is the Catahoulas (one of my fav's), a Spanish Alano, Braque D'Atagnes (sp?), Coton De Tuleaurs, Tennessee Treeing Squirril Dog, and the Estella Mountain Dog.

I can see how being at the table can instigate 'trash sniping' from Web, espescially since you're feeding him people food at the table. We all know how much dog's love people food of most any kind, and what is your average trashcan full of? Yes, that's right, people food. I don't have any qualms about 'begging' dogs, unless they're staring right at me, watching every little morsel my fork picks up and puts down my neck, drooling the whole time. It's not uncommon for my girls to be milling about underneath me as I eat, or to have one of them rest their head in my lap on occaision with those big hopeful eyes. If they get overly obnoxious I can just tell them go away and I won't see them for a good ten minutes or so. However, one thing that I NEVER do is give them people food. They can nab the little bitty scraps that fall to the floor, but otherwise people food is off-limits. As a result (or as I'd like to think is as a result) the only trash-pilfering problem that I have is of them swiping kleenexes out of the bathroom trash, or the occaisional diaper, but never 'food trash'. Ah, well that's my thoughts for what it's worth.

We call it 'turd picking' at my house.

That's great, more fun than a clown's funeral!!! And it's a relief to know that I'm not the only one who's pets have certain 'personality quirks'.

I'm glad taurus is getting back to his old self! And shouldn't be hard on yourself at all, I've known dogs who've gone years with thyroid problems simply because their owner just didn't know what was really going on and just thought their dogs were overweight. Oh, and Taurus likely will be on medication for the rest of his life, though you can ask your vet about a cure for his thyroid condition. That's all I'll tell you about that as I shouldn't do medical advice, that's what your veterinarian is for! :P

Yay! Both my girls are mutts. Zoey is a Borzoi very likely mixed with a Border Collie. One of the officers at the Animal Control facility we adopted her from was familiar with the neighborhood she came from, and this was our best determination. She might be called a Lurcher althought she wasn't intentionally cross-bred with the notion to create a coursing dog in mind. China is pretty much a Siberian Husky, though there some other type of dog somewhere in her ancestry. My best guess, given her coloration, is that there was a beagle somewhere in her bloodlines, or something similarly hound colored. Anyway, my girls are geat, and Iwouldn't trade them for a purebred anything!

Gjones, you may not want to discount your vet's advise right away. I'd follow Cassie's adivise and see about a behavioralist, as really there SHOULDN'T be any excuse for a dog to snap at anyone, but this isn't an ideal world and dogs are as imperfect as we are. Looking back at your recent vet experience, you should keep in my that there are good reasons that veterinarians and groomers will take yor dog into the 'back room'. One reason being that there is many an owner who freaks out over seeing their beloved pet's blood when, for example, a technician or vet accidentally hits the quick when doing nail trims. I know, my fiance' is one of these people. This is something that happens relatively often, especially when a dog flinches as the nail is being clipped, but some owners would find this inexcusable and horrible that this could happen to their companion. Even though 'Angel' bucked like a rodeo bull during the entire process. Another reason that pets go to the back room and out of their owner's line of sight is that there are quite a few dogs who are much better behaved WITHOUT their owners nearby. Some owners will inadvertantly allow poor behavior by simply by not correcting it, or even encouraging it. "Oh, poor snookums it will be Ok. I know they're mean and you don't like them but please try not to bite them... ", and so on. Anyway, I don't mean to discount your concerns over your experience gjones,I just like to play the devil's advocate, so to speak. You need to do what you feel is right, I'm just presenting another side of the situation.

Thyroxine and Soloxine are the two most typical thyroid meds that come to mind right away for animals. Weight gain (I think actually an increased appetite) is usually the most common side effect if I remember correctly, but is not always a noticable condition in every pet. It may take a few blood tests to get the drug dosage correct for your dog, but once that's dialed in you'd be suprised at how happy and how much more energy your dog might have.