Cora Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 My dog is 5 months and in training school for puppies. He is 35 pounds and pulls on his leash a lot, he is muscular too. I figure next month he is 35-50 pounds and walking will be harder. I was dissapointed the class consists of lay, sit and stay as well as socializing the dogs. I wanted to address the leash pulling before he gets too big for me to handle. He has a buckle collar and a 4 foot cloth leash. I yell no when he pulls and jerk slightly but he seems to have no clue what I am yelling at him for. I thought of using the gentle leader or a training collar but my trainer said I should wait for the next class for it to be addressed because I don't want to overwhelm him. I wondered if she just wanted me to sign up for another class and shouldn't I nip things in the bud as soon as possible to be fair for me and him? My biggest question is why would a training collar or gentle leader not be a good thing for him? My pics of him are here and you can see he has the build where I don't think it would hurt him. Let me know what you think..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 lemme start by asking you a question . . . when you are on your walks and you suddenly yank the leash and yell no -- have you clearly communicated what TO do? there are like 8 million 'nos' outside. don't eat the squirrel carcass, don't sniff the poo, don't step in that, don't run over children, don't chase rabbits, etc, etc. there are a couple suggestions i will make here -- 1) get an easy walk harness made by premier ([url]www.premier.com)[/url] it is a front clip harness with a martingale style front so they can't slip out easily. the dogs adjust almost immediately. will help with control of the front end. 2) practice! short little walks down the driveway at first. there are a variety of options of what to do when your dog pulls. - you could goose him on the butt and back up quickly calling his name - you could teach him to target your hand - if he is being a spaz you can make sudden abrupt direction changes so he learns to pay attention to you cause you're very unpredictable - if he pulls toward one particular thing (a squirrel, another dog, etc) you can play red light green light. tension in the leash you stop, when he turns to you or there is slack in the leash you go. nice leash walking takes practice and sometimes you don't even get out of the driveway :) take lots of snacks too so you can reward the nice walking -> behaviors that get rewarded get repeated! so if she gets generous amounts of snacks when she is close to you she will want to stay close to you. make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxiega Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I don't know if you have a Wal Mart available or not, but they carry a pretty nice no-pull harness. It works on the premise of it goes under the dogs front legs so the harder they pull the tighter it gets. Think about it this way. If you had something pulling under your arm pits you would stop. Now this like anything else you use is a tool. As Rotten said you may not even make it the length of the driveway, but as soon as the dog starts to pull you stop in your steps and give the command "No Pull". As soon as the dog stops moving praise him/her. Basically become a tree don't move as long as the dog is pulling. You may only be able to take one or two steps, but they learn pretty quick that if they pull you don't move. You should be walking on a loose lead before long. Some dogs are just plain more stubborn than others and you have may have to repeat this excerise numerous times. If you do that is okay. Just remember to always end any training session on a positive note. If you have to have the dog sit or down, what ever they do best finish with that. You want to making training fun for the dog. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 i will give you my opinion about what maxiega (no offense) suggested -- use it how you like .. . . 1) those harness that use postive punishment (dogs pulls -> harness inflicts discomfort) i don't think you need this at all. in my opinion the premier harness is much better also more expensive than walmart. i don't want to risk hurting my dogs when i train them. 2) i don't believe dogs are stubborn, stupid, hard headed, or sneaky! believe they are trying to do what we want but the communication is blurry. i think it is easier to communicate what we want (praise, treats when walking nicely) than what we don't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_raven Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I agree with rotten_two. But before you spend money on an expensive harness, try this: each time your dog starts to pull, just stay still. Don't move until he comes back to you and the leash is loose. You will need a very long time for your usual walk, but it's worth it. It worked with my dog in just days - he does not pull at all and if I stand still, he will sit right away. Also take lots of food with you and call his name. Everytime he looks back to you, reward him. Don't call more than once - stand still, if he does not look at you, reward as soon as he looks. I did this with a friends dog, who was already 2 years old at the time. The owners can't walk her without a gentle leader. I did the same thing with her and in 2 weeks, she was already A LOT better than before. I believe, a gentle leader or any no-pull-harness should only be used as a training item and not as a general lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxiega Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Hey Rotten Two, No offense taken. :D As trainers we just have different training methods. I am always open to new ideas. About the only method I'm really dead set againist is the Kohler. That is just way to harsh for my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Kat Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 You would be best to search through the archives in this forum, because this is a common subject and I've replied goodness knows how many times to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cora Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 I will keep these things in mind and thanks everyone for your advice. You are all great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cora Posted November 18, 2005 Author Share Posted November 18, 2005 I tried the gentle leader and he HATED it. He would put up a fuss even after a week and would refuse to walk, flop like a flounder, sit and dig his feet in the earth, so I gave up on it. He also has some kind of skin problem on his face. A training device is useless if it upsets your animal the first several weeks. Then I tried the Sporn halter. He doesn't mind it but still pulls a little. I will go to a choke chain if he does not do beter leash walking after 2 weeks. I would prefer a martingale collar over a choke but I hear they do not help serious pullers. The big problem is not even that he lunges or pulls, which he does on occassion. The problem is as a hound he wants to stop and smell EVERYTHING, it takes an hour to go anywhere and in the morning I can only spare so much time before work. I simply don't have several hours a day to walk, who does? I always pull on him gently and say "c'mon" or "leave it". On the flip side he needs to walk to be more calm as a puppy to release energy so he needs his walks! He does respond to voice commands more often than not but I must say these two commands 100 times. And I try to praise him when he is walking nicely. We shall see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_raven Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 [quote name='Cora']I tried the gentle leader and he HATED it. He would put up a fuss even after a week and would refuse to walk, flop like a flounder, sit and dig his feet in the earth, so I gave up on it. He also has some kind of skin problem on his face. A training device is useless if it upsets your animal the first several weeks. Then I tried the Sporn halter. He doesn't mind it but still pulls a little. I will go to a choke chain if he does not do beter leash walking after 2 weeks. I would prefer a martingale collar over a choke but I hear they do not help serious pullers.[/quote] All these devices are training items and will not work wonders over night on your dog. Things like the gentle leader will need much preparation work before you can even go out and walk your dog with it. Since you 'only' have problems with your dog when he wants to sniff and stop, I don't think, any of these items will work greatly. I had the same problem with Simba, because at the beginning, I let him sniff everything he wanted. Now I made up a word command which I can use to make him walk nicely. I have a previous command 'look at me' that I could use with the training. When he wanted to sniff somewhere, I said 'look at me' and kept walking - and then I would use the new word. If he would not react I said the new word and gently pulled him away. If I would be somewhere in the middle of nowhere, I would just put the leash down and walk my way - he would come like a rocket so he would not lose me. I would demand a 'nice walk' from him on one way and then let him sniff and get the neighbor's news on the way back. I think, with the training of a new word command you are much better off than with all these training items, which are more for dogs who pull the whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dione Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 After walking beagles for a couple years I found that sometimes carrying a treat or two in your pocket helps hurry them along or rather focus their attention on you. For example if he stops too long ask him to "come","heel" or say "here" whichever command you think is best and when he comes start walking and give the treat as soon as he gets to you. So you're not rewarding him for stopping to sniff but for comming to you and following. Or modify what you think you should do what I just suggested. Different things work for differnt owners and their fur children. ~Dione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Hi, my suggestion: Find a trainer who works with you and your dog on just that problem. Don't resort to training devices that do your dog more harm than good. This is the millenium and dog-training and the understanding of a dog's behavior have come a long way. May I suggest a book to you? Pat Miller - "The Power of Positive Dog Training". (Howell Book House; ISBN 0-7654-3609-05) I believe it's even available at PetSmart. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cora Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 The treats work great, thanks for the suggestion. If he bothers people all I need is a "Sit" and Lie down"" command with a treat in hand. As well as it gets him moving again if he is distracted by anything else. He gets a treat if he listens to me. One of my problems is cats. I live in an urban area with lots of cats roaming and he really goes crazy, hair up and in shackles, growling, baring his teeth. I remain calm and say "leave it" and continue walking but he is very hard to control (as he is getting big) if there is a cat near by. I have even gotten up close to my friends cat from the window to show him they are nothing to feel aggressive toward but he flips out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotten_two Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 hair up on his back and neck is called piloerection or 'hackles' -- your shackles made me giggle. here is my suggestion for dealing with cats: i know you now take treats with you on your walks which is great. i want you to take n additional type of treat that is super yummy and only reserved for cat encounters. you pick but it has to be something super salient like a bit of steak or ham or something really yummy that he doesn't get all the time. on your walks when you see a cat i want you to put that super treat on his nose and point his nose in the direction of your face and say 'watch.' there are a couple goals here: 1) you now have a cue to get him looking at you 2) cats = treats so eventually when he sees a cat he will look at you for his treat. you do need to practice this at home in low distraction settings and use good treats but not the ones reserved for cat encounters. i don't expect he will do very well if you just train him when he sees cats -- you have to work on it in low stress situations to really establish the behavior. remember that there is always the option to turn and go a different way. you may have to turn and run to get his attention re-focused. you may have to do this for a while until he gets the hang of 'watch.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cora Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 Yeah, I realized my spelling error but I had already logged out. Glad I can make ya laugh though. Well, some people of the new school may be dissapointed but I have gone for the old school choke collar as my favorite choice. My dog does not pull when he is on it and it takes second to put on, not 20 minutes like the Sporn Halter. My dog seems to like it too because as long as he walks nicely, it is very comfortable. He usually puts his head right through the loop or picked the collar up to tell me he is ready for a walk! I have read up on the do's and don'ts as I can see it would be a device to use with caution and only for dogs with strong necks! I do not use it at the dog park or training class as he is still a little too jumpy and I am aware of damage it could cause but for every day walks it has made my life easier! I probably will use it to train but if he needs to have it on a regular basis I do not think that is so bad. And I have been using the treats to deter him from cats and other issues he is having, thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcdiaz Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 CORA, Don't be suprised many trainers have problems dealing and teaching people how to stop dogs from pulling. I invented a leash that stops dogs from pulling and puts you back in the drivers seat. The leash works the minute you put it on your dog and stops your dog dead in there tracks. I call my leash "No Pull No Bull" I am a Master trainer with 38 years of training experience. Nip it in the bud before it's to late. Good luck, Carlos Diaz [URL="http://www.kcdiaz.com"]www.kcdiaz.com[/URL] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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