imported_Irena Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 K you need any more votes? if you do you can count me in :drinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Irena Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 ditto me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Having come into this debate at a late stage, I would vote for this to remain open. Call it whatever you want, rolling, whatever, Hmmm fights her dogs. Therefore she is a dog fighter and thus there is no problem for me personally to, as Kiwi put, call a spade a spade. I don't see any of you jumping on the fact that Hmmmm called Kiwi a BYBer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bk_blue Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A bit of consistency would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Kiwi, why do you want Hmmmm banned? Because she fights her dogs? Well, then why dont we ban you for breeding a bitch under two years of age? That is a BYB to a lot of people here so maybe you should just be banned too. You are throwing stones in a glass house as well. No one jumped on Hmmmm's calling Kiwi a BYB because (at least this is my reason) I agree! I dont want to ban any of the regulars here, and yes, that means I treat newbies differently. If youre too lazy to go and answer the questions yourself Ill answer them. Yes, Hmmmm health tests and her dogs are perfectly healthy, otherwise will not be bred. Her dogs are more healthy than yours, I can almost promise it! I dont know what specific tests, but she said she tests for everything. Gee, you say you would report her if she told you her information... and then you wonder why she wont post it? Yeah, shes doing something illegal, but shes doing it for the right reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa M Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I am joining this conversation late but will put my .02 cents in anyways. There is a BIG difference between the ghetto "dog fighting" that all the gangbangers bet on and the dog fighting breeders use as a test for gameness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 yes, oh mighty ModGod! :modla: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='K']If Kiwi and Hmmm would care to peruse the rules thread they will BOTH see that flaming is NOT allowed...if this contines I will ban you both...Nuff said?[/quote] I apologize for breaking the rules K! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Don't mean to contribute to a flame war, just politely discussing. If I've over stepped, let me know K and I'll delete it myself. [quote] Yeah, shes doing something illegal, but shes doing it for the right reasons.[/quote] I read Hmmmm's explanation and I still don't agree that the ends justify the means. I really wonder, does Hmmmm actually mind being called a dog fighter - she admits to fighting her dogs? I think that calling Hmmmm a dog fighter is certainly no worse than calling Kiwi a BYBer and there is the possibility that what Kiwi told us about the early breeding is true and therefor there is a possiblity she might not be a BYBer, while Hmmmm IS a dog fighter. Anyway I vote that both Hmmmm and Kiwi stay. I vote that banished be rebanned :lol: just registering again must be against the rules or something. As for the others who may all be the same person: well I have a problem voting on that as I can't tell them apart. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote]I read Hmmmm's explanation and I still don't agree that the ends justify the means. I really wonder, does Hmmmm actually mind being called a dog fighter - she admits to fighting her dogs? I think that calling Hmmmm a dog fighter is certainly no worse than calling Kiwi a BYBer and there is the possibility that what Kiwi told us about the early breeding is true and therefor there is a possiblity she might not be a BYBer, while Hmmmm IS a dog fighter. [/quote] I dont really enjoy being called a "dogfighter". But I understand why people who dont know/understand what I do call me that. It does tick me off when Im called a BYB. Especially if it because I test my dogs in the way they are supposed to be tested. It is the only way to assure I am breeding dogs that are worthy. There are some peoples opinions I really take into account but others I dont. I think everyone here can say the same thing. I do feel, however, that although noone here agrees with what I do some understand and do know I am not a BYB but am breeding for the good of American Pit Bull terriers. Oh... and I am getting sick of not being able to post my opinion without the way I TEST my dogs being brought up. It is something everyone here knows about, it has been debated long and hard SEVERAL times. I mean really, when is enough enough? Dont people get sick of talking about me? We all know what I do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='scotty_lvr']Yes Hmmm I'm sick of talking about you....so stop turning all the posts about you now...jeez....lol :roll:[/quote] No way.. I want to keep on repeating myself over and over again!!!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddysMom Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='Hmmmm'][quote]I read Hmmmm's explanation and I still don't agree that the ends justify the means. I really wonder, does Hmmmm actually mind being called a dog fighter - she admits to fighting her dogs? I think that calling Hmmmm a dog fighter is certainly no worse than calling Kiwi a BYBer and there is the possibility that what Kiwi told us about the early breeding is true and therefor there is a possiblity she might not be a BYBer, while Hmmmm IS a dog fighter. [/quote] I dont really enjoy being called a "dogfighter". But I understand why people who dont know/understand what I do call me that. It does tick me off when Im called a BYB. Especially if it because I test my dogs in the way they are supposed to be tested. It is the only way to assure I am breeding dogs that are worthy. There are some peoples opinions I really take into account but others I dont. I think everyone here can say the same thing. I do feel, however, that although noone here agrees with what I do some understand and do know I am not a BYB but am breeding for the good of American Pit Bull terriers. Oh... and I am getting sick of not being able to post my opinion without the way I TEST my dogs being brought up. It is something everyone here knows about, it has been debated long and hard SEVERAL times. I mean really, when is enough enough? Dont people get sick of talking about me? We all know what I do....[/quote] It HAS been debated several times, and thoroughly (as I can attest to the last one) :lol: and it appears to me tha just about everyone disagrees with the way you test your dogs, but you have been very civil and upfront about it. It just riles me when people get the impression that everone here thinks what you do is just dandy, when really it seems to me to be just a tiny minority (if any at all) who agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Noone here agrees with it. As everyone has stated, including myself, when someone comes around and says something about it. If those people who do say that people here agree with what I do would look at the posts instead of posting without reading they would see noone here agrees with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='Kiwi']Well you see, some people actually bothered PMing me and asking why I made this decision. Funnily enough all of them accepted and respected my wishes behind it. Not everything is in Black and White CC.[/quote] And you are saying Im being secretive. There is no reason, like I said, only excuses. Poor puppy. And yes, I have listed what I test for... Might not have been the last time but its been up here before. [quote name='Kiwi'][quote}I dont really enjoy being called a "dogfighter".[/quote] But that's what you do! I'm sorry if there is a more politically correct name for it, but at the end of the day it is fighting your dogs and I fail to see how me calling it what it is is flaming...[/quote] You can call me what you want. If it isnt flaming if you are calling what you see...Youre a BYB, Im a dogfighter, fine. Ugh... Im ignoring.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESSlover Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='newfiemom']All I'm going to say is that K is going to be pissed when she comes back and reads all of this.[/quote] Ditto. :-? Really guys.. just grow up, and drop it. If both of you stop talking, it'll all stop. I'd vote for a lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 What I am is a breeder of full-blooded gamebred American Pit BUll Terriers. I do what is necessary to find the highest quality APBTs. I have said from day one if anyone had any questions they could PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Can we lock this one? Its already been discussed a hundred times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 [quote name='Michele']here's my definition of a dog fighter: a punk druggy who fights their dog to the death with no regard for the animal. The only regard they have is for money. They would let the dog die right in front of them.[/quote] :-? so what do you call what hmmm does? dog fighting IS dog fighting no matter how you look at it, in some people's eyes there is a right(dogmen) and wrong way(punks/thugs on the street) but either way it's STILL dog fighting. and imo there is no wrong or right way and i have no respect for anyone that does it, it's a man made sport and it's disusting, it's just one big vicous cycle, you fight the dogs to see if they are "game" you breed the dogs, you do the same with the puppies, etc. etc. etc. I personally dont see how being "game" makes a good pet because there are hundreds of breeds and mixes and APBT's out there that arent "game" yet they are great family pets and working dogs......just my thoughts... i firmly believe that any responsible breeder is very open about their breeding practices...wich makes me wonder, Kiwi, why are you so secret about your decision to breed an underage bitch? oh right...you want people to PM you :roll: like i said...responsible breeders are OPEN about their breeding practices...if you cant be open about your breeding practices(open as in putting it on a forum such as this) then me thinks you have something to hide. and if you were truly a responsible breeder and KNEW 100% that you were one, then being called a BYB by a person who "you dont care what they think" wouldnt hurt you so much, now would it? because if you didnt care what she thought...well then you wouldnt be bothered by what she says.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I dont think the thread should be locked personally. Let people say what they have to on the subject, or it will be brought up again Im sure. Lets just keep away from the name-calling alright? In response to AAP: Youre right, dogfighting is dogfighting. Youre right that some people think there are good and bad ways to go about it. I am one of those people. I think if someone cant see the difference between those ways, that person is being ignorant. There are people who claim to be doing it the "right" way too but arent. A lot of the old, famous fighters werent doing what they were supposed to as far as bettering the breed but I believe Hmmmm is. She doesnt allow man-biters to be bred and sincerely cares about her dogs' wellbeing. If she knew her dog was going to die, she would pull it out of the match. Although in most cases, things happen so quickly its hard to make the right judgement. People dont realize that rolling a dog isnt as bad as you would think. If done correctly, both dogs can come out of it just as they were before the fight. To me, a Pit Bull being game is its definition. Without it, its not an APBT. There are plenty of mixes, rescues, and BYB pits out there who make good pets. All of them are "game", but not anywhere near enough to be considered game by dogmen. See, lots of terriers and bulldogs are game but not to the extent that APBTs are being bred for. Thats what makes them so special. I think its important to preserve that trait as long as possible, and I respect the people who do it correctly. Now, there are people who are doing so without fighting rolling their dogs. I respect that even more. IMO, there is a certain level of gameness, one that I suspect all dogmen want in their dogs, that can only be testing through fighting but I think a dog can be labeled as "game" through other ways also. I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. :D :wink: To Kiwi: You are being secretive! Breeding a bitch under 2 years will open a HUGE can of worms anyway so what difference does it make if you tell us the whole story? Maybe everyone will understand after you explain it to us... then again, maybe not. I stand by my beliefs. You arent being singled out. Its just that most of the people who have posted tend to understand Hmmmm's situation more than yours. Another reason to just post the whole story. Its not ok for either of you to be calling each other names.... even if its true. Im a bitch but its not ok for you to call me it when were arguing! :lol: The thing is most people here happen to think anyone for whatever reason who breeds a bitch under 2 years is a BYB... so they arent going to argue about it if they agree. Yeah, we all know Hmmmm is a "dog-fighter" but it has a lot more meaning behind it than that, at least to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefeathers! Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Well, doo doo, I can't just let this thread go by without adding my two cents since it'll probably be locked in the morning. :P I may be in the minority on this, but Kiwi does not fit my definition of a BYB, and I have no problem with her ethics, at least not from what I've seen unless you guys know something I don't. My mind doesn't always see everything as black and white, always or never, any of that. That's all. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 And yet you still dont say why you came to the decision to breed Nala... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 No, I just hinted at for no reason at all :roll: 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Ok, see now, was that so hard??? :lol: It makes a lot more sense that you bred her earlier after your experience with Kobi. I understand you were worried. Im still not saying I think you did the right thing but Im not going to comment on that because I dont really know for sure about BTs and breeding. Thank you for telling the whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogPaddle Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 [quote] I think if someone cant see the difference between those ways, that person is being ignorant. [/quote] In what way do you mean ignorant? It has always really pissed me off when people decide that because I don't agree with them I am either: a) too stupid to get it b) don't know what I'm talking about c) trying to be difficult I have read all of Hmmmm's explanations. I have done plenty of independent research including sources that are not anti dog fighting. I am an intelligent and compassionate person and I didn't come to the same conclusion as you - so that makes me ignorant? Is the way Hmmmm fights her dogs different from the way other people do - yes; does that make it a different thing altogether - no. And it doesn't make it right just because its different, its still dog fighting and in my own opinion, that isn't cool. edited to be bit more diplomatic :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAmericanPUP Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 all pseudo eclampsia is is a calcium deficiency, by giving the bitch a calcium suppliment during and after labor you can prevent it. so the risk of pseudo eclampsia doesnt justify breeding a bitch underage considering it's totally preventable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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