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What do you mean when you say "nicely"? If you want obedience style heelwork then the best way is to hold the lead in your right hand, keep Cinco on the left always and use food just above his nose to show him where the correct heel position is. You can help him by always stepping off on your left foot. Dogs judge by body language and feet/head/shoulders position dictate the position of a dog.

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[quote name='Kat']What do you mean when you say "nicely"? If you want obedience style heelwork then the best way is to hold the lead in your right hand, keep Cinco on the left always and use food just above his nose to show him where the correct heel position is. You can help him by always stepping off on your left foot. Dogs judge by body language and feet/head/shoulders position dictate the position of a dog.[/quote]

What I mean is to slowely get him to walk with out pulling cuz when I take him to a friends house or when they come over they always walk Dahlila cuz I'm afraid Cinco will pull the leash right out of their hand since they either have puppies or older dogs that don't pull and theres a few friends that'd make me run and catch him while they sit back and watch. So what u said is probably what I mean. But 1 more question does matter if I'm right handed?

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heelwork then is your best bet. Start with a short two foot leash, keep the dog at your left side always, bring treats. the short leash will keep the dog in the heel position (nose at your left knee) and when he walks willingly (without pulling) then treat. if he pulls a strong NO PULL command, and make him sit, then treat. as he gets used to the heel posiiton,and will walk on it willingly, then train him to stop and sit every time you stop. as soon as you stop he should sit at your left side, (and get treated while learning) and not get up until you say GO (or whatever word you decide to use) this takes some time and some effort. dogs naturally want to run off and play when out. keep your lessons to 15mins
every few hours, so as not to tire him out. their little minds start losing interest after about 15minutes when being trained for something new.

also, one of the tricks to this is turning. if you tell him to heel, and he starts to forge on ahead, turn sharply right, and when he catches up make him sit. keep this up until he realizes that he is Not to outpace you.
eventually he will learn that if he keeps his nose to your knee, you wont throw him out of whack by a sudden turn.

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[quote name='ShatteringGlass']use a training collar (choke, pinch, etc) high on the dog's neck, right behind the ear's, like a show dog :D With most dogs, you'll find you'll have better control with the collar up high on the neck.[/quote]
Thankz i got a fabric choker from the hs when he got him a few months ago(it's a fairly new collar that elmbrook got free testers for)

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[quote name='ShatteringGlass']use a training collar (choke, pinch, etc) high on the dog's neck, right behind the ear's, like a show dog :D With most dogs, you'll find you'll have better control with the collar up high on the neck.[/quote]

i'd be very careful giving such "advice" to someone who has never been instructed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to choke and pinch collars.

it's easy to do a lot of damage that way, especially if someone is using a pinch (prong) collar, which should absolutely [b]never[/b] be put up "high on the neck behind the ears". that area is not well protected at all and the larynx can get damaged.

why jerk around a dog anyway? they are smart and can be taught without yanking and pulling.

if the original poster has a desire to properly train the dog, not just to walk nicely on a leash without pulling, buy a good book on clicker training and a clicker. it's great.

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We're geting a clicker (or atleast i think we are) the next time we goto petco. It's not a matter of getting there it's more of a matter talking to my parents saying he'll learn faster (although he does seem to catch on quickly) with 1 but it's they're money I'm just he daughter that knows how to train him and has more patience i guess lol. Thankz for the replys.


BTW don't get the wrong idea about the collar i told u about cuz it's not a choker it's an alternitave to the choker and only does the choker stuff when the dog pulls and he can't slip out of it like he could ur basic everyday chain collar.

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[quote name='TDG']
it's easy to do a lot of damage that way, especially if someone is using a pinch (prong) collar, which should absolutely [b]never[/b] be put up "high on the neck behind the ears". that area is not well protected at all and the larynx can get damaged.
[/quote]

First off, a prong collar should NEVER be used without proper instruction, especially by a novice.
However, a prong IS properly fitted high on the neck, just behind the ears. Otherwise, with a prong riding low on the neck, many dogs will pull just as hard as they would on a flat collar.
When using a properly fitted prong collar, you NEVER correct the dog by jerking on the leash, you let the dog correct itself in a controlled manner. By that I mean: NOT letting the dog run out and hit the end of the leash in a harsh manner, you let the dog WALK out slowly so they feel the collar tighten slowly. The dog learns that pulling results in discomfort without the damage that could result from a hard slam.
A hard and dedicated puller can do far more damage to their throat on a flat or choke collar than on a prong. Since the prong applies pressure evenly around the neck, it is not concentrated on the front of the throat as with other collars.
My older girl wears a prong for leashed walks, it is a wonderful thing for me in her case. She no longer pulls and I can walk her without feeling like my shoulder is being dislocated.

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[quote]However, a prong IS properly fitted high on the neck, just behind the ears. Otherwise, with a prong riding low on the neck, many dogs will pull just as hard as they would on a flat collar.[/quote]

no, it's not properly fitted high on the neck, that is a misconceived idea i see quite often tho, especially by people here in the US who are training using traditional methods that [b]do[/b] inflict pain. the proper fit of a prong collar is around the middle of the neck in a snug fit, neither loosely drooping low on the neck nor up high right behind the ears.

this is what i have learned from [b]all[/b] professionals i have worked with in germany, and what every trainer who has a clue will tell you:

[i]When properly fitted, the prong collar should be at roughly the mid-way point on the dog's neck, with the chain portion flat, not sagging. Beware those who recommend fitting a prong collar (or any collar) up high, near the dog's ears - their intention is to cause pain by putting the collar in this nerve rich, muscle poor area of great sensitivity.[/i]

[url]http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html[/url]

[quote]When using a properly fitted prong collar, you NEVER correct the dog by jerking on the leash, you let the dog correct itself in a controlled manner.[/quote]

while that is correct, many advocates of prong collars who also suggest they should be fit high up on the neck do use leash jerks as a correction, openly stating that the pain they cause high up on the neck is exactly the desired effect they should have on a dog, and that the correction is not painful enough if the prong is fitted lower on the neck because of the muscle protection.

other than that, it's not always the handler who is responsible for the jerking and why risk it at all?

[quote]Since the prong applies pressure evenly around the neck, it is not concentrated on the front of the throat as with other collars.[/quote]

that is also true, but an improperly fitted prong collar high on the neck is too much of a risk to the dog's health, plus a moderate stimulus from a snug fit on the midsection of the neck is enough of a negative reinforcement if the dog is properly handled. sure, some dogs are more sensitive to discomfort than others (namely terriers and working breeds), but you can adjust for that by the size of prong collar you use, [b]not[/b] by moving it to a far too sensitive spot ont he neck it was never intended to be placed on.

[quote]My older girl wears a prong for leashed walks, it is a wonderful thing for me in her case. She no longer pulls and I can walk her without feeling like my shoulder is being dislocated.[/quote]

so you are saying for you the prong collar is a permanent solution?

i find that kind of surprising to say the least. but then i don't look at any training aid as a permanent solution, be it a prong collar, choke chain, head halter or specialty harness.

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Please don't revert to a choke chain. I've said it dog knows how many times before and I'll say it again, they cause irreversible trachea damage. For that reason they have been banned by my dog club for years . Its just an old school lazy way out in my opinion and you can get results by using a normal collar and lead. It just takes perseverance.

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There are lots of ways to train a dog and there are good things and bad things about all of them.

CincoandDahlilasgirl, if you want to use a corrective collar, there is nothing wrong with it, but you do need to learn how to use it correctly. And you can probably tell that there is not exactly a concensus on the right way to use them. :lol:

But I'm not exactly sure what you want him to do. Didn't you say here that he knows how to heel?

[quote name='CincoandDahlilasgirl']He's already learn'd the basics such as "heal"[/quote]

So can't you just have him heel when you want him to walk nicely?

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[quote name='kendalyn']There are lots of ways to train a dog and there are good things and bad things about all of them.

CincoandDahlilasgirl, if you want to use a corrective collar, there is nothing wrong with it, but you do need to learn how to use it correctly. And you can probably tell that there is not exactly a concensus on the right way to use them. :lol:

But I'm not exactly sure what you want him to do. Didn't you say here that he knows how to heel?

[quote name='CincoandDahlilasgirl']He's already learn'd the basics such as "heal"[/quote]

So can't you just have him heel when you want him to walk nicely?[/quote]

He know's it but he don't know it. My dads been getting him to learn heal but his schedual latly has been messed up and he thinks can be better at the walking part since i crate trained him and got him to master "crate"
Like I said b4 I already got a not prong leash.

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[quote name='TDG'][quote name='ShatteringGlass']use a training collar (choke, pinch, etc) high on the dog's neck, right behind the ear's, like a show dog :D With most dogs, you'll find you'll have better control with the collar up high on the neck.[/quote]

i'd be very careful giving such "advice" to someone who has never been instructed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to choke and pinch collars.

it's easy to do a lot of damage that way, especially if someone is using a pinch (prong) collar, which should absolutely [b]never[/b] be put up "high on the neck behind the ears". that area is not well protected at all and the larynx can get damaged.

why jerk around a dog anyway? they are smart and can be taught without yanking and pulling.

if the original poster has a desire to properly train the dog, not just to walk nicely on a leash without pulling, buy a good book on clicker training and a clicker. it's great.[/quote]

I'm sorry, I thought she allready knew the basics, and how to use training collars, since she said that the dog has allready learned the basics and knows how to heal. I assumed she was just looking for extra tips.

I've walked many large dogs on leads, and I always put the collar up high on the dogs neck. There's no need to jerk on the collar, because most dogs won't even pull when the collar is that high, including my dog.

I walk my dog on a nylon choke, just because she can't slip out of it, like she may with a normal buckle collar. If I put the nylon choke in the middle of or at the base of the neck, she will pull. Now, when I put the nylon choke up high on her neck, she doesn't even attempt to pull, she'll walk foward and feel the pressure, and she automatically eases up.

just giving ideas/advice from my own experience and what has worked for me.

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[quote name='ShatteringGlass'][quote name='TDG'][quote name='ShatteringGlass']use a training collar (choke, pinch, etc) high on the dog's neck, right behind the ear's, like a show dog :D With most dogs, you'll find you'll have better control with the collar up high on the neck.[/quote]

i'd be very careful giving such "advice" to someone who has never been instructed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to choke and pinch collars.

it's easy to do a lot of damage that way, especially if someone is using a pinch (prong) collar, which should absolutely [b]never[/b] be put up "high on the neck behind the ears". that area is not well protected at all and the larynx can get damaged.

why jerk around a dog anyway? they are smart and can be taught without yanking and pulling.

if the original poster has a desire to properly train the dog, not just to walk nicely on a leash without pulling, buy a good book on clicker training and a clicker. it's great.[/quote]

I'm sorry, I thought she allready knew the basics, and how to use training collars, since she said that the dog has allready learned the basics and knows how to heal. I assumed she was just looking for extra tips.

I've walked many large dogs on leads, and I always put the collar up high on the dogs neck. There's no need to jerk on the collar, because most dogs won't even pull when the collar is that high, including my dog.

I walk my dog on a nylon choke, just because she can't slip out of it, like she may with a normal buckle collar. If I put the nylon choke in the middle of or at the base of the neck, she will pull. Now, when I put the nylon choke up high on her neck, she doesn't even attempt to pull, she'll walk foward and feel the pressure, and she automatically eases up.

just giving ideas/advice from my own experience and what has worked for me.[/quote]

Thats the kind of collar Cinco has but his has a snap to remove it incase we ever get a new collar or for when he gets a bath(I keep it on though so I can control him in the tub)

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[quote name='TDG']
their intention is to cause pain by putting the collar in this nerve rich, muscle poor area of great sensitivity.[/quote]
[color=red]Well gee, I certainly had and have no intention of deliberately hurting my dog. 8)
My INTENTION is to make her aware of my requirement that she not put her chest to the ground and pull like a raging bull.
And it works. She is not hurt and neither am I.
I will modify my statement of 'high up right behind the ears', you are right in that the collar does not need to be that high. My actual intent was that the collar should not hang down at the base of the dogs neck. Brittanys DOES sit high and she has never been injured by it. I guess that's where I come in, using it properly once it is on her. [/color]

[quote name='TDG']
while that is correct, many advocates of prong collars who also suggest they should be fit high up on the neck do use leash jerks as a correction, openly stating that the pain they cause high up on the neck is exactly the desired effect they should have on a dog, and that the correction is not painful enough if the prong is fitted lower on the neck because of the muscle protection. [/quote]
[color=red]Obviously, we've talked to different trainers. NONE of the trainers I have spoken with jerk on their dogs necks. Not one. [/color]

[quote name='TDG']
so you are saying for you the prong collar is a permanent solution? [/quote]

[color=red]For this particular dog, yes it is. Or at least it is as long as she still gets bug eyed with excitement and wishes to drag me down the street.
She is the only one of my dogs that I feel a prong is needed for.
Yes, I am sure I could work more extensively with her and use a ton of food and praise and PERHAPS she would stop pulling but she is 11 years old and has pulled for the 10.5 years that I have had her. Believe or not, I have even trained her! She went through multiple obedience classes and was trialed and earned scores towards her title. In class and in trials, she never pulled, our issue there was actually lagging! There are times when my elderly mother needs to hold the dog briefly for me, with a flat or choker collar, mom is in danger of being yanked off her feet. With the prong, it does not happen. The dog learned to respect the prong in a controlled way and does not pull against it.[/color]

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well based on from what is being said in this thread as well as what I've heard on other threads I think that if in the right hands then I prong would be excellent but for a person who hasn't had experiance with training and wants to get some stuff down b4 obidience or does the training themselves then it probably be best have atleast some1 check to make sure it's hooked up right.

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