Bloat diet?

[imported_Matty]

I just found out that one of my dogs has been bloating because of a build up of gas. He hasnt bloated to the point of his stomach turning, yet. He basically was drooling big time and restless about an hour after eating. Its only been when I added extras like veggies and salmon to his kibble (Innova). I always mix in canned Innova with my dogs food and once in awhile mix in veggies or meat.
He is at the vet clinic now going through a work up (blood work and whatever else he has to go through) just to make sure he is bloating.

Any how, I was wondering what is the best food for a dog that may be prone to bloat. I only started him on Innova about 1 week ago. That is ironic that he only started bloating 1 week ago. He has always had veggies in his meals and meat. So is it maybe the Innova (the reason I put him on this brand is because of all the good things I read on this site). Or is it the veggies that give him gas.

What would you people suggest I give him, what kind of food would make less gas. Or, does it just depend on the dog and how their system breaks down food. Should I give him Digestive enzymes, what kind the green ones? and should I have him on a probiotic?
I am really confused and scared. As far as I can see my vet doesnt have any diet suggestions, just told me to not add any thing to the kibble. :(
He is my baby, and Im afraid for him right now. I know how quick bloat can kill a dog and I feel like I have a walking time bomb. :(

[rotten_two]

oh matty so sorry to hear this news! unfortunately i don't really have any good advice for the diet. i just wanted you to know we have paws crossed that your pup will come thru okay. our thoughts and prayers are with you.

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_10.gif[/img]

[imported_Matty]

Thank you rotten_two, I am really scared cause his chances of his stomach flipping are probably really high. The vet hasnt called me yet, but, I am waiting for the call. I don't know if they will suggest stomach stapling before the stomach actually flips or not. If they suggest it I will do it.
YOu know, its really weird. When he was drooling after his meal and licking his chops I knew some thing was wrong. I thought it was a bone caught in his throat from the salmon. Then when he did it after the veggies, I knew it wasnt normal. I felt his belly and it was not bloated at all. I think the vet will prescribe some med's for the bloat. Its really ironic as well that in next months issue of WDJ they have an aritcle on bloat. That really is good for me, I did get to the article on line but they didn't really have any diet suggestions. Maybe I should go to the Innova website, I think they have a nutritionalist on line.
Im sorry to be freaking out so much. I am glad I got you people to lean on for moral support.

[3ofakind]

You might want to go to [url]www.greatdanelady.com[/url]

She has good information about what causes bloat and how to prevent it.

[imported_Matty]

3ofakind, thank you so much for the link. I am going to go there right now and see what they suggest. I guess danes are really prone to bloat, and who would know better than a dane owner. :wink: thanks

[Horsefeathers!]

Since Rocco bloated and died, I'm [u]extremely[/u] paranoid about bloating. I've been thinking that any future dog I get with a tendency toward bloating may have its stomach tacked to one side as a precaution. One of my Standard Poodle's stomach is tacked to one side already because he was having some unexplainable problems and the vet went in for an exploratory. While he was in there, he tacked the stomach to one side. I probably should have Pauly done because he's such a volatile burper and I'm afraid it could happen to him. However, the e coli outbreak has just about wiped me out for this year's vet budget. Maybe it's something we'll do next year. I'm terrified of it with Peaches (the foster Dobe) as well because she just woofs her food down like she's starving to death. Since she's not my dog, tacking her stomach is not an option.

All this to say that I'm paranoid enough to do the tacking in a dog I even think *could* bloat. Overkill maybe, but I can't help being so freaked out about it. We did all the "right" things with Rocco because I was so aware of the tendency in Dobes and it still happened.

[imported_Matty]

Thank you for the information Horsefeathers. I am so sorry about Rocco :( how horrible. So, it can happen and kill so quick can't it?
I havent heard from the vet yet, I wasnt sure if you could get the stomach stapled without the tummy turning. That is a relief I think I will get the stomach tacked just to make sure it never turns over. Its my worst nightmare, I heard you only have a few minutes to get the dog in before it can pass away.
I have never gone through any thing like this before and neither has any one in my family or friends.
I just need to keep thinking postitive and do some thing now to prevent it happening in the future.

[imported_Matty]

I ordered an elevated dish holder today :D

[pyrless]

Hi Matty, wow that is scary! :o
I was going to suggest an elevated food holder as well. I do not know about one type of food vs. another, and I have never heard one way or another on that from any experienced Pyr person. However, some things you can do to help prevent bloat:
Split up their food into two, or three if you can do it, smaller meals per day.
Do not exercise them strenuously for about an hour before or after meals. (like your mom always said about swimming! :D )
Try to limit extreme intake of water all at once, this makes them swallow alot of air.
HTH!

[imported_Matty]

pyrless, thank you for the advise. The scary thing is I do all that for my dogs. I don't exersise them for over an hour after a meal. I feed them 2 smallish meals twice a day. I don't get home often at lunch so I don't want to get them used to 3 meals a day. I add water to their food so the stomach is not trying to get water from other parts of the body during digestion. They are not big gulpy drinkers, they are danty for husky's they lap and don't drink a lot at once. I feed them Innova, now I heard from some one else that they found that Innova caused gas in their dogs. He just started bloating around the same time I switched him to Innova. I also put water and canned food in their water. They get organic natural live bio yogurt with live bacteria in it. I don't think my dog has a yeast overgrowth. But, judging from the site 3ofakind left me it seem that yeast over growth is one of the leading causes.
Its just, I always have been careful with my dogs, and I never even though husky's were that prone to bloating. But, what do I know. Even still I wasnt doing any thing which could have caused him getting gassy. The only things I can think of is that I just recently had to start leaving them in their kennel (outdoor & huge with a insulated baby barn for a dog house) when I go to work. Normally there was some one there and my dogs only went kennel for short periods of time, like when I went to town and I thought they would benifit from being outside. Or when I was home and doing things around the house and they were in the way I put them in kennel.
So, its either the Innova dog food, the extras I added to the food or its the stress from going to kennel for and 8 hour stretch that caused him to almost bloat (get gassy cause his stomach didn't turn). Or maybe its just that hes getting older and he is just not in the top shape he was when younger, who knows.
I wish I could afford to have his stomach tacked as horsefeathers suggested. I would have to send him away to a local Vet school to get it done. Im sure it would be thousands of dollars. I can't even take out pet insurance as Im sure bloat would be considered a hereitary disease.
(I was reading some where that its good to have a dog neutered and stomach tacked at the same time, but, they also mentioned not to tack a breeding dogs stomach in case its prone to bloat you don't want it to pass on to future pups :o )

Thanks every one. Hopefully the vet will be in touch with me shortly and let me know what they found out.

[imported_Matty]

[color=red][b]ITS NOT BLOAT[/b][/color]! :multi:

I am soooo happy. The Vet (his is a bi conventional/holistic vet) told me that some dogs are more prone to gas during their meals. He told me that he has an excess of gas in his intestines not stomach. He also told me not to feed him veggies or meat with kibble, he just said some dogs are more sensitive. He also said that he is not off the risk factor of bloat either. He said that if he keeps getting these type of gas that he may bloat in the future.
He just said that some dogs can't tolerate raw/cooked meats or veggies with kibble. So, he said if you feed kibble just keep doing as Im doing and add water and canned food. If I feed raw or leftovers feed them in a seperate meal.
You can't imagine how relieved I am.

Thanks every one soooo much for helping me get through this rough period of waiting for this call from the vet. I really in truly appreciate it.

[pyrless]

oh, honey! good luck!
Any dog with a deep chest can be prone to bloat, so don't worry about that so much-it's not so much a breed thing as a build thing. All of your ideas are possibilities, from my layperson's point of view, the vet obviously will be able to answer more specifically than I. It can't hurt to at least look into pet insurance, i don't think it would be considered hereditary at all-this can happen to any deep chested dog at any time in their lives. It might help to start eliminating what you think the causes might be, one by one, and carefully watch his physical reaction. Best of luck for a pyrfect solution! :wink:

[imported_Matty]

Thank you pyrless. I will be much more careful with diet. Im still going to get the elavated dish holders, for all the dogs :wink:
Thanks for clearing me up on bloat not being a genetic disorder. I think I will look into pet insurance. It really makes you think about some thing like that when some thing like this happens. Can you imagine if my dog did bloat and stomach turned, I wouldnt have had the money to pay for the surgery :o I would have found it some where. But having insurance is just that insurance against the unexpected.
Thank you

[MajiesMom]

Good to hear it

[TDG]

[quote name='Matty']Thanks for clearing me up on bloat not being a genetic disorder.[/quote]

bloat [b]can[/b] be genetic. i've been discussing this with a breeder recently. this fact is the reason why many vets will not do a gastropexy after a bloat incident in a dog without spaying or neutering at the same time - because dogs who bloat shouldn't be bred and gastropexy would just hide the defect.

examine the limitations of the insurance you get very closely.

i'm also not sure if commercial pet food can be blamed all that much, it may play some role but overall i think the biggest problem is that dogs are bred to increasingly ridiculous extremes (bigger, heavier, deeper chests etc.), and from shrinking gene pools (due to closed stud books in most breeds),which predispose them to a lot of health issues.

and then of course there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders who only breed for looks but not for health. :(

[DogPaddle]

Huh, now this had me thinking. Zaphod has been inexplicably panting a couple times in the last week and half and he also has been letting the stinkiest doggy farts rip. I knew the Innova was giving him a bit of gas but I never thought of it causing him discomfort. Some one else here recently switched to Innova and said the dog was a bit gasy but it cleared right?

[TDG]

many dogs seem to have a bit of gas or loose stools when switching to innova. in many cases it's because the amount fed is too high. innova is quite a bit more calorie dense than other foods.

try reducing the feeding amount by a little and add some probiotics. a good quality human acidophilus product will work. powderd ones usually start working faster than capsules.

[imported_Matty]

Actually TDG, I think I was feeding him too much Innova :oops: I was feeding him the same amount as his other food (wellness). 2 cups am 2 cups pm and 1/2 can of same brand mixed in :oops:

When I picked Kavik up they told me to not mix protein with carbohydrates (starchy foods and grains) its ok to mix protein with ground up vegetables. This will prevent intestinal gas production.
Keep tract of food which may trigger the episodes of salivation (ex certain vegetables, or wheat.)
To help keep the intestinal linin healthy add 1 tbsp of plain low fat yogurt 1-2 times daily, and add 1/2 tbsp fibre (bran, or whole wheat type cereals)
He also gave me a med called nux-vomica 30c and give about 5-8 granules at signs of indigestion (salvation, restlessness).

[quote]bloat can be genetic. i've been discussing this with a breeder recently. this fact is the reason why many vets will not do a gastropexy after a bloat incident in a dog without spaying or neutering at the same time - because dogs who bloat shouldn't be bred and gastropexy would just hide the defect.

examine the limitations of the insurance you get very closely.

i'm also not sure if commercial pet food can be blamed all that much, it may play some role but overall i think the biggest problem is that dogs are bred to increasingly ridiculous extremes (bigger, heavier, deeper chests etc.), and from shrinking gene pools (due to closed stud books in most breeds),which predispose them to a lot of health issues.

and then of course there are a lot of unscrupulous breeders who only breed for looks but not for health. [/quote]
TDG, the vet I talked with (new one) my normal vet referred me to this vet as he is holistic and works in her office :D He mentioned that he is seeing bloat a lot more in many many different breeds. He kinda mentioned some thing about breeders breeding for abnormal shapes and sizes. He doesnt seem to keen on purebreds at all.

[pyrless]

woo-hoo matty! yaaaaay!!!!!!!! it is sometimes better knowing than waiting, yes? :wink: I know you will continue to take GREAT care of those dogs-it's obvious how much you love them! glad i could help some!

[imported_Matty]

Thank you pyrless, you were a wonderful help. :wink:

I guess when our dogs do some thing we havent seen before or that is not normal we can tend to over react :oops: I am very aware that my dog is going to be more prone to bloat now that he is getting gassy in his intestines. I will have to be very careful with him from now on. I am going to keep track of his diet and have a consultation with this new holistic vet to go over proper diet. I find this new vet is more into raw diet than kibble. He told me as well that even if I start trying to feed the dogs raw more often it would be a great help.

[DogPaddle]

Matty said:
[quote]When I picked Kavik up[/quote]

Does that say what I think it says?

[imported_Matty]

[quote]Matty said:
Quote:
When I picked Kavik up


Does that say what I think it says?[/quote]

What do you mean? I didn't actually pick (lift) him up off the ground. :lol:

[imported_Kat]

2 dogs called Kavik? :P

[DogPaddle]

He stole it, I had it first. :eviltongue:
:lol:

[Horsefeathers!]

When I first read that, I was thoroughly confused. I was thinking DP has Kavik and it's not a name I hear a lot. Then I thought for a minute that DP and Matty may be roommates or something. Had me all shook up, I tell ya.
2 Kaviks?
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