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Vicious labradors?


Seijun

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I don't know where every one here lives or who is breeding the ill tempered Labs :o maybe they are not purebreds. I see that happen alot. People see a dog that looks some what like a Lab (very common look for a dog) and they say its a Lab when its not. Some thing like what the APBT goes through mistaken idenity. It seems every dog out there even when you go to a shelter is either Lab or Lab mix or Shepherd or Shepherd mix. :roll:
In my area Lab's & Golden Retrievers are the nicest dogs. I don't think I have ever met a mean ill tempered Lab :o and I meet alot of dogs. They must be better bred in my area. It seems that we have thousands of them and a whole lot more of them than any other breed.

I think the most aggressive and mean tempered dogs I have met have been APBT's and Rottweilers. I have a fear of APBT's ever since I was horribly attacked (and ended up in the hospital and endured many surgeries) and they pick up on my fear.

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[quote name='Matty']I don't know where every one here lives or who is breeding the ill tempered Labs[/quote]
I am in rural southwestern Georgia in the US. Ads in the paper here for "AKC registered" Labs are a dime a dozen. Then there are those people with the "AKC registered" Labs that are breeding them and asking to post flyers on our vet clinic bulletin board. We also see many Lab "breeders" and their puppies come through our vet clinic. Just this past week, one of our kennel helpers, a young 16 year old boy, proudly announced that some cousin of his recently acquired an enormous "AKC registered" Lab and plans to breed this dog since it's unusually large which, apparently, is a good thing (to them).

While I agree that a lot of dogs are probably frequently misidentified as Labs and Lab mixes, the fact that they rank pretty high in registrations shows how popular they are. With that in mind, it stands to reason that there have to be a lot of "bad" ones in the endless sea of the bunch.

I'm not implying that all of these Labs I mentioned as being bred locally are bad dogs. However, many of them are ill bred and many of their temperaments reflect it. One "breeder" of these Labs locally has never had nor bred a nice dog. ALL of them we have seen from this particular "breeder" were nervous and/or aggressive (for that matter, so are all the Cockers they've bred). People buy them, continue to breed from them and we have in our area a fairly significant population of rotten tempered Labs.

I'm only addressing the question of where the people live (me) who see the poor tempered Labs. I still think they are generally great dogs. Like anything that becomes popular, ethics and good breeding go out the window to make room for the mighty dollar and that is often reflected in health and temperament. In rural southwestern Georgia, Labs are [u]very[/u] popular dogs, so to see some not so nice ones out of the many, many nice ones isn't so uncommon.

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[quote name='DivineOblivion19']I've also seen more Labs in for rabies observation (RO) after having bitten someone. [/quote]

Just a point of interest and probably another regional thing. In our clinic, it's Chows, hands down. In 5 1/2 years at that clinic, I've never seen anything but Chows come through for rabies observations after biting someone except for one Akita. I'm not knocking them or implying it's any kind of scientific data... just my own observation in one clinic.

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Thanks for explaining that to me HF :wink:
I guess in my area it seems the Rottweilers and APBT's are being over bred and by what must be bad breeders. Not that the Pit that bit me was bred by a bad breeder, this dog was actually bred for a good temperment :o
In my area I see too many ill tempered APBT's and Rottweilers which some belong to very nice people. I have a couple of Pits which live down the street and they are always bouncing off the windows in the home they live in. One of them even bit its own owner quite badly once.

I guess I must be lucky in my area, the Labs, Shepherds and Goldens all seem to be pretty stable and all that I have met are really nicely tempered.

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I work with dogs daily.
I find the Lab's to be very stable dogs from most kennels. When you over breed and create a small gene pool any purebred will suffer. I find most over bred Lab's to be high strung and more fearful more so than aggressive.

As for myself, I have never come across a Lab or a Golden that I feared or thought was aggressive. I have come across a few defensive Labs or fearful, but, not out and out aggressive. When I am working directly with dogs in the grooming facility I am quite comfortable around the Lab's and Goldens.
Now Chows and most Northern breeds, Rotties and APBT's are a different story. I watch these breeds with my life, I know that one bite from one of these breeds could put me out of commission for quite some time. I am also careful with APBT's, Rottweilers, Chows and most Northern breeds at the boarding kennel I run. I don't trust them and this mistrust has saved me from dog bites throughout my career.

Alot of times as well you have first time dog owners or people who don't want to have to train a dog migrate towards breeds like Lab's. Probably about 6 in every 10 Labs I meet have not been trained. People think they come in a docile I know how to be a good dog package :lol: when you have this type of mentality its a wonder we have so many good Lab's as half of them have never been trained or they have been spoiled to death.

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i think every man and woman should be cautious around any dog. breed has nothing to do with it. any dog can turn on you in a split second and i dont believe any one breed is more likely to do it than another. kind of like saying one human race is more aggressive than the other, but down to it, we're all just a bunch of dogs :lol: .

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[quote]i think every man and woman should be cautious around any dog. breed has nothing to do with it. any dog can turn on you in a split second and i dont believe any one breed is more likely to do it than another. kind of like saying one human race is more aggressive than the other, but down to it, we're all just a bunch of dogs [/quote]
[b]Quote by between the wrinkles[/b]

So, all breeds are created equal?? NOT.

Lets take a look at some different breed standards.

[quote]Breed: Beauceron
Temperament: Aloof with strangers and naturally protective of their charges, Beaucerons are loyal and devoted to their masters. Bold and fearless, this is not a dog for the meek or mild-mannered. Beaucerons are normally calm and intelligent but require a strong (not harsh) master. They tend to become one-person dogs.[/quote]
compare to Basset hound
[quote]Basset hound Temperament: Mild in temperament, the Basset is a dependable friend and companion.[/quote]

[quote]Temperament: While the Basenji may be aloof with strangers, he's playful, alert and affectionate with those he knows. Highly intelligent, he may be a challenge for some owners.[/quote]

[quote]Rottweiler Temperament: The Rottie is a [b]fearless[/b] dog that maintains an air of self-assurance. He is basically calm and confident. [b]He possesses an inherent desire to protect home and family.[/b][/quote]

[quote]APBT Temperament: [b]Impulsive and strong-wil[/b]led, the APBT is admired for its tenacity, courage, spirit and willingness to please its owner. [b]This powerful breed needs a responsible owner who will commit to careful socialization and ongoing training[/b][/quote]

[quote]Temperament: The Chow Chow is proud, independent, very loyal to its family and [b]rather suspicious of strangers[/b]. It maintains a dignified, scowling expression. [b]The Chow Chow is a natural watchdog[/b].[/quote]

[quote]Golden Retriever - Temperament: [b]As a family pet, especially with children, the breed has few equals.[/b] [b]The Golden is noted for being friendly, reliable and trustworthy. In addition to being a gentle-mouthed retriever[/b], the breed excels in obedience and shines as a guide dog for the seeing-impaired.[/quote]

[quote]Retriever (Labrador) Temperament: [b]His gentle ways, intelligence and adaptability have done much to account for the Lab's popularity as a pet. His disposition is kindly and outgoing coupled [/b]with an eager-to-please nature and general non-aggressiveness[/quote].


I could go on and on, but, as you can see all breeds are NOT created equal. They were all purposely bred to SERVE A PURPOSE FOR MAN, be it hunting, guarding, fighting for sport, killing vermin, drafting, sledding.

Do you still believe they are just like humans :roll:

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theyre not just like humans, but you can not lump them all together. that is VERY apparent if you read new stories. you can't honestly believe every basset hound is an adorable little loose skinned angel. i know of a few chow chows who are never aloof with strangers, and yes they're pure, they compete along side me. they are happier running up to people and jaunting about with them than barking at them and being scarce in their presence. i know plenty of rottweilers who are afraid of strangers. you cannot say that every dog in every breed is the same. LIKE HUMANS, they are NOT all the same just because they are of the same breed.

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between the wrinkles,
I never said that ever breed is going to be exactly as the breed standards state. But, what I am trying to say is that each breed was bred for a specific purpose. A guard dog is more likely to be protective, a bird dog is more likely to have a soft mouth, a terrier is more likely to have a higher prey drive and kill small varmets. A greyhound and other sight hounds are more likely to want to sprint, a husky is more apt to want to run for a long distance and not be a sprinter. A terrier is more likely to be dog aggressive.

The reason they created breeds and kept breeding to fine tune each breed to show specific behaviors is so they would know what they were getting. If I wanted a good guard dog I am certainly not going to go out and get a basset hound. I am not talking about home guarding I am talking about police guarding or livestock guarding. If I want a dog to herd my sheep, well, Id probably get a border collie or another herding breed as they will naturally want to herd as they have been bred to show "eye", most other breeds never will show eye unless it had been bred into them.

There certainly are vast differences between kennel to kennel with our breds. And yes, over breeding can ruin dogs behavior wise etc., the same can be said for horses and people when the gene pool gets kinda small. The point I am trying to make is that each breed was bred for a certain job. I would have a better chance at getting a Golden Retriever with a soft mouth and friendly than I would with some of the guard dogs out there. There are actually some breeds that are bred to be very very aloof. I once met a Fila which at 6 months of age was already really human aggressive. The owner new what he was getting into and that is what he was looking for.
This is the reason they created purebreds so they would know what they were getting. You could almost predict the temperment and behavior of each breed.

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Guest Anonymous

Although I agree that overbreeding has caused many members of the Labrador breed to have "unLablike" temperaments I will not agree that thye are not good family dogs! Of course they are and show bred dogs are very laid back and do not take 6 or 7 years to calm down and do not have to hunt or be played with for 4 hours a day. Yes as a Labrador breeder I am biased, however temperament is #1 in my book. Every breed has their backyard population and this is true of Labs, Goldens, Rotties, Chihuahuas, etc. Labs and Goldens are just so much more popular so they have even more poor quality members out there just like there are more superior quality members. At a dog show Labs and Goldens always draw the largest numbers by far. I

definitely would not as a rule say Labradors tend to be aggressive or problem dogs, I would say backyard poorly bred dogs of any breed tend to be aggressive or problem dogs.

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  • 1 month later...

Last year a boy was badly attacked by a black lab and the news reported it as a pit bull!!! :evil:[/quote]
I have to agree with this topic but it's not always the dog sometimes it's how it was trained. In my area Lab/pitbull mixes are popular breeds and u see more and more of those types of dogs with those crosses together around here. We had 1 when I was little but he got old and died. :cry:

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Guest Anonymous

My ex bred his chocolate lab. She just had the puppies and my girls now want one. Of course. PUPPIES are cute, but they fail to realize that they aren't puppies for long. And I got the "I'll take care of it song and dance"
I just had to give away (or be taken away by the sheriff) a beloved dog because of his aggressive behavior. :cry:
I went on line to try to find out more about Labradors because what I have seen has NOT impressed me. My brother has one. he stays outdoors in his run 24/7 and used for hunting. My niece has one. And he is OBNOXIOUS. I could never handle a dog like that.
My ex's dog, that had the puppies was so badly behaved my ex~now you will know why he is an ex~~ had him sent away until he finaly bred her. ONLY to make money. He said he will give me one "for free"
I have a mix golden retriever that is about 12, almost died on me not too long ago and I would not give up hope. Now she okay, but a puppy???
My Joni was a pretty bad puppy, but she has turned into one of the greatest dogs that ever lived.

I had to find out for myself about this breed. Thanks for this thread because it has definately made up my mind. NO PUPPY.

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I know what u guys are talking about but u guys are also saying the owner has something todo with it being that way also. Cuz when were looking at dogs before a few days we got Cinco we stopped at a local humane Society and a lot of labs and they were all as sweet as can be. Theres a lab in my neighborhood it can be possesive but it's a good dog I know this cuz it's my friends dog. Maybe thse labs are mixed with something cuz when I was little we had a lab/pitbull and I've seen him get mad at my friend for jabbing him with a stick. Other then that 1 time he was a easygoing dog.

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  • 2 months later...

We got a Lab mix (estimated 1 1/2 years at the time) from the shelter about five months ago.

Our vet said it's most likely a little bit Doberman (looks identical to a black lab except in certain light his coat has a reddish tint, and has a white spot on his chest.)

We had a lab before. Got him when I was 7 (21 now) put down last summer.)

Compared to Gus, Mason is just nuts. 90 lbs of craziness. He is about the most athletic dog I have ever seen. You could tell he wasn't socialized much before we got him.

Anyways people think that because I say he is part doberman that he is aggressive but that's not true. While he likes to play VERY rough with both people and other dogs, it usually takes something to set him off.

PS: Why the heck do labs have such huge appetites?!

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[quote name='Seijun']My neighbor has the most horrid black lab I have ever seen, extremely territorialy and dominantly aggressive. He has tried to start fights with my dog and he has threatened to attack me on my own land (which is a full 3 miles from his house)!! Everyone who goes by that house carries a huge stick because once this dog DID attack a jogger and he had to shove a branch down the dog's throat to get it off of him. Despite this, the owners STILL let the dog run around free. I used to think this was an isolated event because labs are supposed to be one of the sweetest natured dog breeds around, but lately I have been hearing that more and more aggressive labs are currently being produced. One person claimed that one third of the labs coming into her vet office were horribly aggressive. Is it true that the number of dangerously aggressive labradors has been increasing?

~Seij[/quote]


Yikes, I'm sorry to hear about your neighbors aggresive black lab. That really stinks. I know that my Smokie is very tetorial, if another dog comes on our property, he usually wants nothing to do with it. However, if I take him for walks he just ignores other dogs. But saying this, My parents live next to a playground and I remember smokie saving kids from a doberman, once. I guess Smokie can be a little agressive but not like the dog your describing, Smokie loves people who pay attention to him. And ofcourse with our family he is the sweetest dog in the world... He loves to get hugs, and kisses! But I have seen some aggresive labs growing up too. It sucks how breeders breed dogs who shouldn't be bred.

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[quote name='lsailor']I am shocked to come across you post - I was seriously bitten by a female black lab that I had known for years before the incident. Like you, I was under the impression that all (or most) Labs were non-aggressive.

It is possible that people may be seeing more temperment problems with Labradors since they are a very popular breed. As popular dogs, many are being bred by people who might not be the most conscientious about genetics.

In my specific case it seems the dog was not mentally stable due to inbreeding and she was IN HEAT (duh!! stupid owner...). She attacked me as I was walking away from her. A few months later she jumped out of a moving truck and died. She was a normal, intelligent, sweet dog during the first few years of her life, something just "snapped" when she was about 3 years old.

I have a Pharaoh Hound/Pit Bull mix, so I am accutely aware of the "one bad apple spoils the bunch" theory about breeds, so I'm very cautious of thinking that Labs are all going to turn vicious.

I would definately see what you can do about this particular dog in order to protect yourself, even if it means calling the police or animal control to knock some sense in to the owner.

Good luck![/quote]

Yikes I know what you mean. My friends old Collie came after me and tried to bite me.. It actually did bite me just didn't break skin. I had been around this dog, forever, and it just turned viscious all the sudden. I have met other collies who were the sweetest dogs in the world, but I don't think I trust owning one.. or it would have to be one very special collie. lol.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest Anonymous

i have a black lab and he is the sweetest dog i've known. he has bitten my dad, but that was when he reached into the dog house and grabbed him by the ear and yanked. i've never heard of a vicious lab, and i have neighbors that have had one, and friends. we trust my dog, who is about eight years old, with grandchildren. if you go near my family in a remotely threatening manner, he will bark and snarl. but he mostly just postures because he's getting old. they are extremely territorial. we never trained him (except to get his food bowl, which he learned on his own)

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi,

I've been interested in reading the labrador posts.

My first dog was a labrador, and she was a great dog, very affectionate and sweet natured BUT the only time I've been seriously scared by a dog was by 2 labradors.

I used to take the English Springer Spaniel that I then owned, Ben, across to a local park where he would run around and play with the other dogs, mainly strays, who used to gather there. There were 2 stray labradors, who would escape from their home every day, and come to the park. I would sit under a tree, and every now and again one of the dogs from the group would come up and sit next to me. On this occasion the one labrador played with Ben and his 2 cross-breed friends and gradually led them further away from me. Meanwhile the other labrador came and sat next to me, but gradually moved closer and closer, until eventually he turned round so that we were virtually nose to nose. I then realised that he was about to attack me.

Everything was flashing through my mind so fast, I couldn't get up because I realised that if I moved that would trigger the attack, so I tried to keep calm and keep my voice level, while desperately hoping that Ben would get back to me. Then the lab started to growl and I was trying to work out how to save my face when Ben appeared out of nowhere, leapt on the lab's back and knocked him flying. By the time the lab got up, the two little cross-breeds were back by me as well. Ben stood in front of me, and one of the cross-breeds to either side, and I was able to get up. The other labrador then returned but with all 3 of my doggy pals growling as hard as they could (one of the cross-breeds who was about the size of a Jack Russell, was twice his normal size as his fur was standing on end), the 2 labs decided not to make a fight out of it.

I subsequently discovered that it was the 2 dogs practice when in the park to lure one dog away from a larger group of dogs, and to then attack it. I can only think on this occasion that they saw me in effect as an extra member of the pack, and so tried to treat me in the same fashion. It was very scary.

I think it probably is down to excessive breeding, and probably breeding from dogs with undesirable temperaments. A good lab is a great fun dog, but you've got to watch out for the rogue ones.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I though this topic was very interesting because when we first moved in our house we were talking to out mailman and he said that there was a black lab down the street that broke through the glass view door to attack him while delivering mail. He did require stiches. Someone in the neighborhood called the T.V. station with the story and they said it wasn't very improtant news because it wasn't a Doberman, Rott or Pit Bull. I agree that it has to do with poor breeding.

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