Guest Anonymous Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 i'm not crazy about that show... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 [quote]I enjoy that show...i'm breeding my Bitch next year and its my first time..i think it gives me a good heads up on how to do things..i like see the animals being born and seeing how they have developed..i appreciate birth and i think its a beautiful thing. I also think its a great for kids to learn. I knew all about sex and where babies came from when i was a child through animals..i think it makes for a great learning experience for everyone..[/quote] Right, bear with me: Are you saying that you think its okay to breed animals as a learning experience for kids, or that you think the program is a learning experience? If the latter, fair dos, I can think of better educational tools though. If the former, you have to be kidding me! I think the best educational tool for showing kids the "miracle" of animal birth is to take them and show them the thousands of dogs/pups and cats/kittens in rescues that are being added to by people breeding their pets because "theyre cute" or "my kids need to see this". Or take them to the zoo and show the cramped and cruel living conditions. Pets giving birth are not miracles, the real miracles are the dogs that are rehomed from shelters rather than PTS. Anyone who breeds their pet for money, or because they think pups/kittens are "cute" or because they want their kids to experience it, should not be allowed to have a pet in the first place. Surely its better to teach kids about responsible pet ownership including neutering etc rather than to teach them its okay to add to the numbers in rescue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendalyn Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 exactly, you hit it right on the nose Kathy 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellieangel Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Great post Kathy :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 *Takes a bow* :lol: Seriously tho - breeding is my pet hate. I can just about bear those that do it responsibly once in a blue moon - but cant stand by and go ahhh at people who put their bitch through this repeatedly. And the creme de la creme are those who say theyre doing it for their kids - pull the other one! Dont think their kids'll be pocketing the money. Also yesterday I spoke via email with a lady who thinks its cruel [b]not[/b] to breed from your bitch, as "she deserves to go through the joys of motherhood and decide for herself whether to make babies" ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: Like the poor dog'll get a choice when her owner was advertising on eBay for a stud :evil: :evil: :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delh1 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 i despise the show i just know that some of the people breed their pet just for the show. also some of the things the people to impress the audiance is stupid and unessesary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_tai Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 i definitely have to agree w/you kiger- the show really does depict some irresponsible breedings. i remember watching one about a woman breeding service dogs; she was breeding a lab bitch (around 7 years old or so) and i think she said something to the effect that she was breeding this girl every heat! This is supposed to be a responsible woman, and here she is saying, "well i'm really worried about her. i have bred her alot, and she's getting older, this pregnancy might be really difficult." and of course it was. (luckily all the puppies were fine- but if she was really that concerned, why was she breeding this older girl?) it shocked me, especially considering the fact that she was breeding service dogs. not the kind of person i would ever buy a puppy from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixstarDanes Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 [quote name='DeafAussieLover']this lady had a great dane and she stuck her hand ALL THE WAY in her poor big dog.. you know that had to hurt the dog. and WHY woudl someone stck their hand THAT far up.. why stick a hand in at all? ..[/quote] I understand feeling for animals however you have to remember that the show boils the "story" down to a total of 22 minutes. A whelping which has taken hours and hours is trimmed down to a matter of a few minutes. You fail to see everything going on. That Great Dane is our girl, Star. Did I hurt her? Not at all. When she whelps she wants me there with here and helping her. Next time you see the show watch it closey... when Star walks in the room and is laying on the bed. When she has that 1st big contraction... look at her face - what does she do? She looked immediately at me. Yes, I had my arm in there... Star was standing and was not at all restrained. She knew I was helping. I don't have a big hand, its about the size of a small Dane puppy. If I hadn't assisted the the times I did 2 pups more than likely would have died. I've spoken with other breeders of Giant breed dogs and what I did is done by others when it is necessary. I say Giant breed because you wouldn't do this to a bitch of a small size because it would hurt. Some background on me... I use to work at our vets. Do you notice during the show that I'm there WITH Star during her Xray and not in another room or on the side lines. Our girl Star is around 133lbs. She's a good sized girl. More about the filming for someone who has been there-done that. They filmed us around 14hrs the 1st day (pregnancy) They filmed the whelping (2nd visit) but didn't catch it all with the stationary camera. We had a Merle born outside on the deck (3rd puppy- you see him in the litterbox but didn't see his arrival) 4th puppy was stillborn, 5th I pulled out - I was so scared she was going to be dead because of being contaminated from the stillborn. 6th puppy -(there was a 6th!) was born after the camera crew left. Before the camera crew returned at 7 weeks of age we sadly had 1 pup PTS as it developed a terrible infection. That's why you see 4 .. then later still 4 but there is a change of color. A lil more info... Lass graduated to become a Service Dog earlier this year and Fortune is over 1/2 there to becoming one .. he already has most of the requirements met. During the camera crew visit at 7 weeks they were here for another 8 hrs or so. So Chaos Entertainment decide what to put in a show and how to edit. Personally, I think the show has its pluses and minuses. I think it is sad when a shelter animal is bred. I wish the show was stretched out and more like an hr show so that way they could go into whatever "breed" is being aired, that they could about health & health clearances and show the bad points as much as the good. I do like that they didn't edit our stillborn puppy out - I think that's important but sadly gets swept under the rug too swiftly. P.S. Thanks Alicat. :D I found this place by following a referral link to my site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Starr- i didn't mean to offend you, i remeber that show i loved the great danes and thought they were beautful, i never knew you had to actually go up and help to pups, i thought that was left up to the moms' ( perfectly good explanaiton of why i'm not a breeder ) sorry to hear you had to put one to sleep. adn its'g reat to know that 2 of the pups are now on their way to being service dogs! Thanks for allthe added info i had know idea1 no hard feelings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixstarDanes Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 [quote name='DeafAussieLover']no hard feelings?[/quote] :fadein: None at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Kathy..I just saw your post and I tend to agree with you. I think alot of people that even THINK they are responsible breeders are NOT...there are thousands and thousands of dogs that end up in shelters and being put to sleep because so called "responsible" owners gave their pups to people they didn't even thouroughly check..and those people decided that their household didn't have enough time or experience for that puppy..so.."lets all just shove em in a shelter" they say... My point? I personally think that there is no need to breed dogs...at least not when there are plenty around...worry about it when they start running out in the shelters ok? :-? ... there's nothing smart or nice or wonderful about it... and it only creates thousands of new puppies a year... sure maybe the breeders feel that they're doing a good job getting their dogs into good homes..but what about after 1 year..2 years..3 years when those people who purchased or got that puppy change their minds about having that dog? Alot of people end up doing that. The shelter near my old house had ALOT of pure bred beautiful dogs..it was pathetic... Think twice before you let your dog have puppies...even if you're not doing it for the money..doesn't matter...you're still making more dogs in a world that can't find enough homes for the ones that already exist.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I don't get the show, I don't get animal planet. There is a show that they show on life here that is Canadians that follows Canadian show breeders around shows, trials, whelpings. It's only a half hour, but thankfully it features examples of responsible breeding. I do agree with responsible breeding personally. I used to responsibly breed Shelties and BCs. Every one of our dogs used for breeding was titled and certified, we had a case where we had to rehome one of our Sheltie puppies and we did. We screened the homes tightly. I've considered breeding again, and would I do a lot of things differently? You bet. I've learned a lot more in the time I haven't breeding. It was long enough ago that I was feeding kibble. LOL I wouldn't support irresponsible breeding in any way shape or form, even if that means not watching a program that promoted it. If you want to see the miracle of birth, if you form a relationship with a responsible breeder, I'm sure in time they'll allow you to assist at a whelping, an extra set of hands can be a lifesaver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah but why breed when there are SOOO many homeless dogs..WHY? that's my question to people who breed or want to breed dogs..responsibly or not...WHY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 [quote name='pitbulletta']Yeah but why breed when there are SOOO many homeless dogs..WHY? that's my question to people who breed or want to breed dogs..responsibly or not...WHY?[/quote] Exactly!!! I just dont get it. If people stopped breeding, shelters wouldnt have to PTS dogs and other animals to make room for more when theres nothing wrong with them. Im against breeding all around, though responsible breeding isnt as bad as BYB. My doG, why cant people just stop to see how many animals have to die because of over population, that which the breeders are adding to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Amen to that! :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixstarDanes Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 [quote name='Kiwi'] A clause that breeders must take take back any dogs they have breed etc etc I could go on all day![/quote] That's a must! It's in our contracts that if the puppy owner can not care for or no longer wants their pup that they must return the pup to us - for the life of the dog. Breeding is one of those topics that will always have people having varying opinions on. Yes, we breed but we also exhibit in conformation. We don't breed for pets they just come from breedings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Kiwi..if it were up to me..I would ban Puppy Mills AND private breeders...in a world where there are simply too many dogs right now, there is absolutely no need to make more... lines dying out? Ok that's something you shouldn't even be thinking about when thousands of dogs are being put to sleep because someone "wants to carry on their dog's genes"...that's pretty lame if you ask me...there are still plenty of pure bred dogs around so I don't think you have to worry about them dying out anytime soon...been to a breed rescue shelter recently? Well then I suggest you visit one if you're worried about pure bred "lines" dying out. And none of us said anything about banning breeders and allowing puppy millers to keep making dogs..if you haven't noticed...alot of us think dog breeding, regardless of who does it and how...shouldn't be happening right now.... maybe when shelters start becoming empty and dogs stop dying for NO GOOD REASON, it'll be another story..but as for now..nobody's convinced me as to why anybody should breed dogs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Why would you want a healthy line of stable strong dogs to die out? It only takes a few years to lose a line of really well bred dogs. I happen to hope that someday all we'll have is responsibly bred and trained dogs, because frankly, I don't want to live in a dogworld where all responsible breeding has ceased, stable healthy lines extinct and all that is left is irresponsible breeders. If extinguishing breeding altogether is what you want, then in 5, 10 years where are the dogs going to come from? In some breeds, breeding a bitch responsibly only means 4-6 years of which you might get 2-3 healthy litters. During the world wars many breeds centred in war zones were in danger of going extinct because breeding ceased. Like it or not, people want purebred dogs. I want my dogs from a responsible breeder to raise from puppyhood so I can have a reasonable expectation of what I'm getting. Responsible breeders do everything humanly possible to account for each and every puppy all through that dog's life. Not one of my puppies has ever ended up in a shelter or rescue. One was returned due to a serious illness from the owner. She was rehomed and living happily ever after. I have explicit demands in my contracts that if the owner cannot keep the dog, the dog MUST come back to me, or there will be penalties. I have started TWO breed rescues, I donate regularly to several and foster for several. I have voluntarily trained rescue dogs since I was in my teens. I also do homechecks for various rescues and breeders across the country, cross province transportation, training, socialisation and fundraising. I've educated thousands, directed thousands to either responsible breeders or shelters, lobbied against animal cruelty, irresponsible breeding and puppymills. I've sent highly in demand craft and art items to rescues across Canada and the US for raffle. So if someone wants to play who is more holier than thou, they've got their work cut out for them, and I'm only a quarter way through my life! The whole point of being responsible is that we take a great deal of pride in our dogs records, their wellbeing an a very hard job being very well done. Many of these organisations are surprised to learn that I have responsibly bred during my life, yet I'm helping dogs who have ended up in shelters. Most then realise that hey, not all responsible breeders are bad, maybe we shouldn't burn our bridges. So if you want to attack me for responsibly breeding dogs, you just remember who you're attacking and what efforts I have made to clean up big time after other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__crazy_canine__ Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Doh! I really didnt want this to start up again, especially after last time. Hasnt this all been agrued enough? Im so tempted to type my opinion but I wont because I dont want to get sucked into debating again. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 newfiemom.....not all pure bred dogs that are bred by "reputable breeders" are working dogs...German Shepherds, Labs used as guide dogs...etc...those dogs can be bred by special organizations that breed the dogs specifically for these jobs..however..there are alot of people that breed labs and German Sheps and DO NOT use them as working dogs...I believe that is completely pointless... Chihuahua's are also purebred dogs...they have no jobs..they're simply lap dogs...should they be bred just to carry on lines? There are tons of Chihuahua organizations that don't know what to do with all the little guys they get in every day because "reputable breeders" decided they wanted to "carry on the lines".... Sure..you might say that responsible breeders wouldn't let that happen..but what if you sell your dog to someone and they keep it...and then move halfway across the country..you lose track of those people...and one day they decide they can't keep the dog anymore..they're not going to transport it halfway across the country so you can have it back and rehouse it...no matter how nice and sincere they seemed when you sold off the puppy...turst me I've seen cases like this....or we wouldn't have shelters in the first place... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 [quote]Sure..you might say that responsible breeders wouldn't let that happen..but what if you sell your dog to someone and they keep it...and then move halfway across the country..you lose track of those people...and one day they decide they can't keep the dog anymore..they're not going to transport it halfway across the country so you can have it back and rehouse it...no matter how nice and sincere they seemed when you sold off the puppy...turst me I've seen cases like this....or we wouldn't have shelters in the first place... [/quote] The point of being a responsible breeder is that you DON'T lose track of them. However I will concede that sometimes even the best laid out plans of a responsible breeder goes to heck. I know of one very responsible breeder, she kept track with the people, however they surrendered the dog to the shelter. The breeder found out, and offered to take the dog from the shelter. Afterall the shelter was putting down animals because they didn't have space, you think they'd be thrilled a responsible breeder was stepping up to the plate. However the shelter (it was in Etobicoke for that matter!) wouldn't return the dog. They kept it out of spite. She offered to pay for the veterinary fees, care and adoption fee just to get her dog back. But instead they were too interested in cutting off their noses to spite their face, and proved to me easily that they were not an organisation that was involved for the well being of dogs, but rather their own ego and not only did they lose a potential donation from me and my many contacts, they also lost potential donations from an entire breed club as the breeder they were being idiots with was the president. Fortunately with responsible breeders this doesn't happen very often, and certainly not often enough to end responsible breeding. I have known breeders who would have paid in a moment to have their dogs flown back across the country, if they found themselves in a situation where needed. I have one "puppy" (she's 9 now) who is out in NS if they called in five minutes and said I needed to pick her up now, I'd be out to Pearson in 30 minutes and hopping the next flight out east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Kiwi..uhm... "private breeders" is another word for "reputable responsible breeders" as YOU call them..to me they're just private breeders...so yes I do know about them..it's pretty stupid for you to say that I don't... I'm simply stating my opinion and what I think of breeding dogs..if you feel that you have to jump on my back and rip me to shreds and be all defensive..that's fine..but I think it would be wise if you considered what I've posted as well..since I am right in many aspects...also..consider that I live in a totally different place than you do..maybe the breeders there are great or whatever...but it doesn't mean that they're like that everywhere...and the problem is, alot of people think they are responsible breeders and ARE NOT...but will label themselves that anyways..and people will go running after them thinking they're great ...if you want to breed dogs..whoop de doo go ahead..I was simply stating the other side of the argument...I know you're probably used to everyone agreeing with everyone else in dogomania, at least that's what I tend to see in alot of posts...everyone's afraid of saying something else in fear of getting jumped on...I think breeding is not something that needs to be done unless we start running out of dogs..and I doubt that will be happening any time soon... *shrugs* and that's MY OPINION :fadein: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Besides jumping on my back..you still haven't convinced me what's good about breeding besides "carrying on lines"... Oh and Kiwi..yeah you really made yourself look smart by mentioning I got two of my dogs from a petshop..hmm considering I was 8 years old..yeah I guess you could say I can relate to you...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenanigans Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Oh come on pitbulletta, people are disagreeing with you, not attacking or jumping all over you. It's all been civil however passionate. People are disagreeing with me in a debate about gun control, I'm not taking it personally we all have our views. You needn't be so testy about comments of everyone agreeing on Dogomania. Personally I'm not out to convert anyone who is closed on the topic, I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall, however I will have my say and if it disagrees with yours than so be it, but don't assume that it's because people are holding up some status quo. If anything it's faulty and makes you look like your lashing out at people simply for disagreeing with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 lol first of all the only people lashing out at me are you and kiwi...and trust me I'm not taking it to heart...but I hate people who feel they need to become "rude" instead of passionate...there's a difference..I don't know maybe that is just your idea of being passionate though... second of all, I DO believe that alot of people here agree with everyone else (first they say something in the chatroom, and then they're too chicken sh*t so they have to private message me to let me know that I was actually right..why not say it in public? Give me a break already) And YES jumping on people is exactly what's happening here...look at kiwi's comments..I don't exactly think she was having a civilized, friendly debate when she said she's glad [b]I'm not in charge [/b]....what did that have to do with the conversation? Her opinion was uncalled for....and then the comment about me getting my dogs from a petshop? Yes I was 8 years old and I didn't know any better..if she wants to compare an 8 year old kid with herself hey go ahead... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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