Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Poofy Regular Joined: 29 Dec 2002 Posts: 90 Location: GA Posted: 10 Jan 2003 21:32 Post subject: Could they have been -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hey hobbit, was that quote taken from a discussion of a simple autosomal gene, excluding the alleles of that gene? It would make sense if they were dealing with one trait at a time...not mutiple alleles. But I don't get the mutant gene part? What if the mutant gene is a dominant? and there are recessive alleles present to it? Maybe its a typo? The word, mutation, when it comes to animal breeding, can be difficult to understand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hobbit Dogomaniac Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 1497 Posted: 10 Jan 2003 22:07 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The quote came from the link that was provided by TLC. There are some questionable information on the site. Have a look see, and you'll understand. Mutations can be caused by various factors...chemical, environmental, disease....etc... I have to go feed now. It takes about 2 to 3 hrs so...bye for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I know there was alot more to this :-? (sorry) but this was going somewhere worth while.. Continue :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hobbit Dogomaniac Joined: 13 Sep 2002 Posts: 1497 Posted: 10 Jan 2003 19:06 Post subject: Re: I can not believe the ignoranace -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sandyb wrote: As far as the color, if a color is recessive, if both parents are that color, they can ONLY produce that color and ALL the pups will be that color, if one is the color and the other carries the gene for that color, some of the pups will be that color and ALL the pups will be carriers as the parent that is that color can only pass on that gene. Hate to jump in the ring of fire here --- but, I think in your anger, Sandyb, that you misquoted a small thing. Recessive - "if both parents are that color, they can ONLY produce that color and ALL the pups will be that color". That is not entirely a true statement. I will put this in laymans terms so everyone can understand. Scenario #1: A fawn colored male is bred to a black (& tan) female (lets forget for a minute of everything else, the tan highlights, the irish spotting, etc... and just concentrate on one thing). This mating produced: 2 solid red 2 red (and tan) 2 black (and tan) 1 solid black The red (and tan) male was mated with a red (and tan) female (both of her parents were black (and tan). This mating produced: 8 red (and tan) 1 fawn (and tan). Scenario #2: Black (and tan) male was bred to a black (and tan) female. This mating produced: 3 red (and tan) 3 black (and tan) In Scenario #1 --- both red parents are recessive, but did not produce an ALL red litter, because ---- the red male is carrying a fawn gene that he inherited from his sire. The female is recessive. Last year, this female even though she is a recessive red, when she was mated with a black (& tan) male she produced ALL black (& tan). In Scenario #2 --- both parents are heterozygous dominant. The male comes from a black (& tan) sire and a red (& tan) dam. He inherited the red gene (or is red factored). Even though he is black, he will produce red, when bred to another red factored dog. There was NO way to know if he was red factored. The ONLY way to know this, was by breeding him to a KNOWN red factored dog. The female comes from a black (& tan) male and a black (& tan) female. She is also heterozygous dominant. Both of her parents were red factored. Her sire --- also is blue factored, meaning that even though he is BLACK (& tan), when bred to another dog that is also blue factored (regardless of her color), they will produce BLUE puppies. NOT the entire litter, but a ratio of 9:3:3:1. 1% being the blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hobbit,. I am NOT angry. If I was angry I certainly wouldn't have given him an example to try to explain simple recessives. and sorry, my post IS correct. It is correct in the scenario of MY breed. There are very few colors in my breed. Only 3 , Salt and Pepper, Black and Silver and Solid Black. In Chis, yes there are many scenarios. But if he can't understand what I explained, how is he supposed to understand more complicated examples like yours? I was trying to start simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 sandyb do you breed Schnauzers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 You have Schnauzer's, right? Is there a website concerning their coat genetics? It's all basically the same.....yet different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 [url]http://www.katewerk.com/color.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 yes, schnauzers. Coat color genetics in minis is not as complicated as there are not as many scenarios as in other breeds. But yes all the general rules apply, just not as many :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 [quote name='Jacsmom'][url]http://www.katewerk.com/color.html[/url][/quote] Thanks! :wink: As long as person knows which color is dominant and which is recessive, everything is simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 [quote name='Jacsmom'][url]http://www.katewerk.com/color.html[/url][/quote] Oh My!! Now the fun begins. If you get TLC going on Kate, it will blow the whole board wide open!! You think sandyb was putting TLC down? Not. He hates Kate with a passion as he does all "Barbie Breeders". Kate tried to explain genetics to TLC's Board, - got nowhere. I am absolutely positive TLC has read the above link....right TLC? Please, please - do not feed into TLC's hands. He is simply picking the brains of "Barbie Breeders" and surely will pass on anything he learns to his Commercial Breeder pals, if he even can comprehend what you are saying. Just read his responses on the thread that is now locked....and if you have to read, and re-read, you will surely understand the simple level he is on. I could not believe what I read on that thread. Unknowingly you are educating a Commercial Breeder of the worst kind. Bottom feeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 :evilbat: I will not be sucked into their flaming vortex. I will not be sucked into their flaming vortex. I will not be sucked into their flaming vortex. ......aaahhhh.... :drinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 [quote name='Hobbit']:evilbat: I will not be sucked into their flaming vortex. I will not be sucked into their flaming vortex. I will not be sucked into their flaming vortex. ......aaahhhh.... :drinking:[/quote] I do not mean or propose to flame. Please do not be suckered in by those who are not mindful of good breeding practices and those that support the Commercial Breeding industry and their mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 ......um.....wasn't borned yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 [quote name='Hobbit']......um.....wasn't borned yesterday.[/quote] That was not supposed. However, if you are taken in by that mindset then I can only suppose you have more to learn. Judging by the number of posts you have made to the Board I would think you could spot them easily if you have been here that long. TLC was a good example for you. Take heed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Thank you......I think that we [b]ALL[/b] have heard everything about TLC and enough is enough and want to move on. Get it? If not, the moderators will lock this one and subsequent subjects. :wink: If you want to talk about dogs, genetics, YOUR dogs, etc...that is fine. But....I (WE) UNDERSTAND......OKAY? We are not ignorant or hard of hearing......and can read and have read about it now for the past few days, and many posts later. LET'S MOVE ON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I don't care who is a commercial breeder, a pet owner or BYB. I will share information with anyone willing to listen. When you share information concerning animals, breeding, genetics, etc. the animals benefit. I really dislike labeling. If people that have the knowledge refuse to share it, they pass up an opportunity to better the lives of many animals. I have found that when I am teaching others, I learn also. WD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLCPETS Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 [quote name='Watchdog']I don't care who is a commercial breeder, a pet owner or BYB. I will share information with anyone willing to listen. When you share information concerning animals, breeding, genetics, etc. the animals benefit. I really dislike labeling. If people that have the knowledge refuse to share it, they pass up an opportunity to better the lives of many animals. I have found that when I am teaching others, I learn also. WD[/quote] Thanks.I am just reading and not posting much.I did not come to cause havoc.I just want to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 [quote] Thanks.I am just reading and not posting much.I did not come to cause havoc.I just want to learn.[/quote] [url]http://www.katewerk.com/color.html[/url] There you go, TLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poofy Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 i will gladly share what I know...and if I don't know the answer I will try to find the answer. If some one wants to learn, that is my job as a breeder to teach them, share what information I know. I could not be a responsible breeder if I didn't. I don't descriminate...if they want to learn then OBVIOUSLY they care.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 My opinion which is based on experience, you teach a byb and all they learn is the right catch phrases to scam a good breeder into letting them have one of their dogs. I have seen this time and time again. I am perfectly willing to help someone learn, but they have to spay and neuter all their byb stock first. I have tried to help people and all it did was teach them the right things to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 [quote name='sandyb']My opinion which is based on experience, you teach a byb and all they learn is the right catch phrases to scam a good breeder into letting them have one of their dogs. I have seen this time and time again. I am perfectly willing to help someone learn, but they have to spay and neuter all their byb stock first. I have tried to help people and all it did was teach them the right things to say.[/quote] sandyb, I don't know you from Adam, nor do I own Schnauzers. Just wanted to clarify that. But you are ever so right here. If they have the right things to say, unknowing purchasers are yet again duped. Keep on educating those with credibility and are ethical breeders. It is obvious most here haven't done their homework about the notorious gang of BYBs/Puppy ******, or Commercial Breeders in the country and are wanting to further the education of those that are puppy farmers only breeding animals for profit. Going from 18 breeds to "specialize" in one "rare color" is rather tale telling. Further, it is incredible that those here think they can educate the man being discussed here when his mentors in the "industry" have the little bit of knowledge he is looking for or needs. Obviously he is just picking the brains of people here and they don't know it just to learn the little "catch phrases" required to flog puppies. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Bribob, You have just......in what we say in the country[color=red][b]...."JUST SHOWED YOUR A$$ ON THIS ONE"[/b][/color] You and others have come to this forum, immediately started FLAMING, NOT calmly ADVISING the rest of the members and the non-members about person(s) that you find unethical. Then you have the [b]*ignorance* [/b](calling a spade a spade) to say that we are blind to the ugliness of the world of puppy millers, commericial breeders, and other such abusers. You have not a clue, no idea as to what you are saying. Most of the people on this board are very well --- let me say that again --- [b]VERY WELL [/b] versed of the understanding of the ugliness of this world. We spend hours, days, months, a lifetime helping the same animals that have been produced by these monsters. Our hearts are broken time and time again. We spend the days crying, the nights having nightmares about the horrors that we've seen and the inbetween time trying to make some sense of it all and not slip into the darkness of insanity because of it. For what? Because we KNOW the problems that we are faced with, have been faced with and will always be faced with concerning a person that is out to make a profit from an animal. Why do we do it? Because we are the people that truly, deep down, love not only our animals but EVERY animal, and other people's animals. Until you KNOW each and everyone of us on this forum or spend the time talking to us about OUR ethics---how much time we spend at shelters, writing letters, calling on the phone, preaching, bitching, begging, pleading, [b]ALL FOR THE SAKE OF THE DOG[/b], then you have NO RIGHT to say a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 .......about any of us! I had to catch my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 No one is calling anyone stupid or flaming. I am simply stating my criterion for helping to mentor people and the reasons why. I have been burned and no many others that have been burned. All that happened was teach the bybs enough to scam other good breeders and make nice websites to scam the pet buying public. Now of course if someone is stupid enough to buy a dog site unseen long distance from a website, well then there probably is no educating them anyways but that's another subject entirely. And you guys are not the only ones that read these messages. There are plenty of lurkers. They need to be educated also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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