Guest Anonymous Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I know that the dog food containers/bags have the suggested amount to feed your puppy by weight. But I also heard some where that you should let your puppy eat as much as he wants until he is about 4 months old. The reason I ask is because when I first got my puppy he was too skinny and wasn't eating at all. It ends up that he had hook worms even though the person I got him from said he was dewormed.... anyway I got rid of the worms. I let him eat as much as he wanted to since he hadn't really eaten much for a couple of weeks. It's been about 2 to 3 weeks and he is still wanting to eat a lot. Should I limit the amount he eats even though he still wants more? He is definately not under weight now. He is about 13 weeks and 30 lbs. He is a great dane/rottie mix. Also, is that a good weight for his age? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoRedNosePit Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 As much as the little pooper wants! That is what I did with gizmo..... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 sometimes he eats so much I think he is going to explode.... he's not fat though. He is sooo tall i don't think he could get fat yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoRedNosePit Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 lol, when gizmo would eat and eat and eat he tumy would get soooo big and i that is how I would tell if she was hungry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I certainly would not feed to appetite, What are you feeding the pup on now abbusser? How many meals a day? and how old is pup now. I know the pup is a cross breed, but i would ususally say with dane pups that they normally put on a stone a month. With most breeds your aim is a well covered but on no account fat puppy. are you soaking the food or feeding it dry? one thing to watch out for with big pups is the feet, keep an eye on where the front feet are facing, watchout for if the start going ten to two. Hope this helps a bit Roo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 [quote name='roo']I certainly would not feed to appetite, What are you feeding the pup on now abbusser? How many meals a day? and how old is pup now. I know the pup is a cross breed, but i would ususally say with dane pups that they normally put on a stone a month. With most breeds your aim is a well covered but on no account fat puppy. are you soaking the food or feeding it dry? one thing to watch out for with big pups is the feet, keep an eye on where the front feet are facing, watchout for if the start going ten to two. Hope this helps a bit Roo[/quote] I am feeding the puppy large breed puppy food (scient diet) 2 times a day. IN the morning and in the evening. In the evening I usually feed him chicken (mostly cooked sometimes raw) and rice also. The puppy is 13 weeks and almost 35 pounds. What do you mean by "they normaly put on a stone a month" oh ok that is weight, but i'm not sure how much a stone is. he has put on about 10 pounds this last month, but he had had worms so that affected his appetite before. I think he is catching up for lost time??? I don't think he is fat. I can still feel his backbone but he has a round belly.... maybe he could be a little chubby. I'm going to take a photo soon so everyone can see him. I have no idea what you are saying here "one thing to watch out for with big pups is the feet, keep an eye on where the front feet are facing, watchout for if the start going ten to two." please explain. i am a layman. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 ok i found out a stone is about 14 lbs I asked a British co-worker. So I guess he is pretty much on target and maybe should weigh a little more, but it's hard to tell since he is a mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 You wrote "one thing to watch out for with big pups is the feet, keep an eye on where the front feet are facing, watchout for if the start going ten to two." I was trying to figure this out. So you mean that his feet will start to bow outwards (2 o'clock) instead on inwards (10 o'clock). Meaning that they are not growing properly. Let me know??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 [quote name='GizmoRedNosePit']As much as the little pooper wants! That is what I did with gizmo..... :D[/quote] Thats what I did also. Then when he was older and started gaining weight I had to limit his intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 [quote name='K']Abbusser if you think of a clock face on the floor at your feet and turn your feet outwards from the forward facing postion to be at 10 and 2 I think this is what she means! and I am told that if they face outwards like this then your dog is too heavy for his legs to hold correct positioning[/quote] ok good to know. I will check tonight but I don't think he is that heavy yet. He has [u][b]very [/b][/u]long legs so it will be easy to see. I will tell my mom to check our other dogs in the states. My parents have a newfoundland, great dane/shepherd mix and the golden mix pictured below my name. She says the golden mix is getting pretty chubby since I moved to Jamaica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 [quote name='abusser'][quote name='K']Abbusser if you think of a clock face on the floor at your feet and turn your feet outwards from the forward facing postion to be at 10 and 2 I think this is what she means! and I am told that if they face outwards like this then your dog is too heavy for his legs to hold correct positioning[/quote] ok good to know. I will check tonight but I don't think he is that heavy yet. He has [u][b]very [/b][/u]long legs so it will be easy to see. I will tell my mom to check our other dogs in the states. My parents have a newfoundland, great dane/shepherd mix and the golden mix pictured below my name. She says the golden mix is getting pretty chubby since I moved to Jamaica.[/quote] Actually while in grossly overweight dogs with bad shoulders this positioning may occur the position of the feet explained in the previous post has far more to do with the genetic arrangement of where the shoulder blades sit on the dog and at what angle they sit against the body than being a good measure of a weight in a pup. I would be feeding smaller meals 3 times a day to a pup of your dog's age. Normally you only give enough for them to clear the plate in 10 minutes of eating. NO puppy should be 'fat' a lean pup is healthier in its growth pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Sorry i caused you confusion there Abbusser, With Dane pups we always keep an eye on their feet, the reasons that we do this is because the feet should be facing forward, often as a puppy grows, (some lines grow differently) if the feet start to turn outwards it is usually the first sign that the dog is not growing correctly, it may need extra calcium etc. so many things can go wrong in rearing giant breeds, they can knuckle over, go right down on the pasterns etc. I shouldnt worry too much about all the other things as he is a cross, but whenever i have sold a puppy dane in the booklet that i make that goes with the puppy i draw little pictures of feet and things. If you get a book on danes, most good ones have pictures of feet and fronts etc. Feel free to pm me anytime if you need to. Roo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 I checked out my puppies feet last night... it wasn't that easy b/c he doesn't stand still very long. However, they seemed to be straight to me. Is there another way to tell if he is too fat? His belly is a little round but like I mentioned before I can still feel his back bone. I guess the vet should know right?? I've been wanting to take him by the vet to get him weighed... he has gained so much in the last 3 weeks. I used to be able to pick him up easily now it is not easy at all.. but still possible. My parents Newfoundland is probably too fat. He makes a large grunting noise every time he lays down, which sounds really funny... but not if he is unhealthy. I had written about this dog before b/c he is having knee problems and needs surgery. He is less then 2 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 [quote name='K']Actually Roo while we are on the subject my Saints feet at the back turn out slightly especially if he has been standing?walking for a while...do you think he is just making himself a more comfortable stance or should I contact the breeder/vet and get it checked out?...remember the key word is slightly and I have been known to panic unneccessarily before :oops: keeping calm though till you reply...k.[/quote] k, BEFORE YOU START WORRYING, THE BEST TIME TO CHECK HIM IS WHEN HE HAS JUST WOKEN UP AND IS NOT TIRED. OFTEN FEET GO ALL OVER THE PLACE WHEN THEY ARE TIRED(PUPS) ROO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 [quote name='roo']Sorry i caused you confusion there Abbusser, With Dane pups we always keep an eye on their feet, the reasons that we do this is because the feet should be facing forward, often as a puppy grows, (some lines grow differently) if the feet start to turn outwards it is usually the first sign that the dog is not growing correctly, it may need extra calcium etc. so many things can go wrong in rearing giant breeds, they can knuckle over, go right down on the pasterns etc. I shouldnt worry too much about all the other things as he is a cross, but whenever i have sold a puppy dane in the booklet that i make that goes with the puppy i draw little pictures of feet and things. If you get a book on danes, most good ones have pictures of feet and fronts etc. Feel free to pm me anytime if you need to. Roo[/quote] My goodness the danes where you live must be very different. Here pups feet often turn out at the wrist or appear to due to the size of the growth plates - the whole assemblage straightens normally as it grows into long legs, knuckling over is an inherited problem and you'd have to be feeding pretty dreadful food for the pup to have a calcium problem here and go down on the pasterns. Breeders know well here that you don't supplement dane pups unless you *want* skeletal problems. The pictures of feet and fronts in the books have to do with standards and heredity not feeding. Take a look at the next dane you see with feet that turn out or in and feel for the spacing between the shoulder blades across the back at the withers area - then compare to one with a proper front and one with the opposite type front from what you first observed. You will be able to feel what the cause of the position of feet and elbows is when you do this. (This works in evaluating any breed and comparing good and bad shoulder placements in dogs) You also need to note straightness or angulation of the shoulder joint when looking at a dog's front - often a dog with a really straight shoulder will look short necked because the shoulder blades are forward of where they should be. If anyone is interested in structure and gait there are good books out there on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Thanks for your reply guest. I do not supplement the danes only vit C, If and only if a pups growth starts to go odd and i am talking growing problems not hereditary ones will i give them anything else. knuckling over is not always caused by hereditary problems, pinning in is, have you ever seen a huge boned pup whos owners have not noticed its feet going out then so down in pasterns that it has to be pinned? If owners keep an eye on the feet at the start things can be helped. I am not talking about the standards pictures in books, i am talking about the growth problems. I see danes on regular occasions, not only have i bred them, owned them, shown them, i also judge them, and i am the show secretary and show manager of a great dane breed club, we have a champ show coming up soon and should have at least 250 danes entered. hereditary problems are just that, different lines grow differently, but growth problems can be helped. Roo But that is just my opinion :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 [quote name='roo']Thanks for your reply guest. I do not supplement the danes only vit C, If and only if a pups growth starts to go odd and i am talking growing problems not hereditary ones will i give them anything else. knuckling over is not always caused by hereditary problems, pinning in is, have you ever seen a huge boned pup whos owners have not noticed its feet going out then so down in pasterns that it has to be pinned? If owners keep an eye on the feet at the start things can be helped. I am not talking about the standards pictures in books, i am talking about the growth problems. I see danes on regular occasions, not only have i bred them, owned them, shown them, i also judge them, and i am the show secretary and show manager of a great dane breed club, we have a champ show coming up soon and should have at least 250 danes entered. hereditary problems are just that, different lines grow differently, but growth problems can be helped. Roo But that is just my opinion :lol:[/quote] The only down in the pasterns giant breed dog I have ever seen are these - puppymill/pet store pups that were being fed generic or really cheap brand dog food, dogs that were starved as pups or not fed at all except what they could scrounge from trash cans and gutters, and pups that were being over supplemented by owners who thought they were doing the right thing. I not only have bred danes and shown them (only judging I do is at matches and grading litters for people not into the required politics to become a judge here of any breed) I also have done years and years of dane rescue meaning I have seen dogs of all qualities not just show pups. Knuckling over and toeing in or out, shoulder placements and also some pastern tilting issues are pretty obviously inherited problems to anyone who watches ALL the breed not just the show dogs, as to my eyes are bloat and issues with overly long necks, wobblers, hip displasia, poor ear leather, lousy temperament (seen a bit too often to suit me) overly large or overly fine heads, low tail sets, steep croups etc. I can assure you one gets quite a complete skeletal view when one gets to observe Great Danes that are 36 inches at the shoulders and weigh only 65 pounds and one is unable to move the skin off the bones until after a couple of days of proper food and water have been supplied. :evil: Quite often the rescues would arrive like that from shelters that had a fixed food amount only available for any stray picked up or dumped off or from owners who ceased to care for their growing pups. :evil: I have had veterinarians tell me a dane pup had malformed growth plates and would need extensive operations when the pup was absolutely normal for the breed and grew up perfectly once on a proper diet and given proper exercise for its age. I've raised to full size a dane that came to me only 40 pounds at six months with a crippled leg the owners had left in a cast for 3 months and rehabbed the leg so it worked and the dog so it got to be 34" tall and proper weight for its size and structure. I've seen the worst and best of dane growth and followed the changes in both good and bad breeder's lines which I suspect gives me a rather rounded view on the breed. I can even guestimate height by growth plate size pretty well AND recognize top winner's relatives by their family resemblences. As for the dogs weight impacting the way the feet are placed I count that as an old breeders tale - or a nice excuse for why the line is not producing proper fronts. :wink: Elderly fat dogs with heart conditions certainly do throw their feet out to help them breath and as their chests expand to help handle the enlarged heart but that is a far cry from a pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 I also think exersice (too much) has an awful lot to do with it too :lol: I think people like you who are involved in rescue and rehoming all deserve a medal, the emotional upset, the hard work and time that you all spend often goes by without a tiny bit of notice from the idiot breeders and often stupid owners. I know you are not in this country but thanks for caring :lol: What sort of numbers do you get through your hands a year? Roo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Roo and Guest... I'm trying not to be a stupid owner... but it seems so hard and complicated. I'm feeding large breed puppy food (science diet) and cooked chicken and sometimes fish (canned mackerel or sardines). What should I be feeding this large breed puppy and in what amounts. I've had some people tell me not to feed large breed puppy and some people say that is what it is for so that is what I should be feeding him. I am going to take some pictures soon so you guys can analyze him as best you can. He is about 14 weeks and at least 35 lbs. I haven't weighed him in about 3 weeks... but will this week. I'm really worried. I took him to the park this weekend for a few hours. We walked around for a few hours... not running and sometimes standing. He was so exhausted that night through the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Adding more questions.....I'm wondering about my boy. While he's far from a large/xlarge breed, his front feet turn out at 10 and 2....he's 2yrs old and his legs angle in a smidge, and his feet turn out. He's 16.5 inches at the withers and 30 pounds.....any ideas????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 [quote name='abusser']Roo and Guest... I'm trying not to be a stupid owner... but it seems so hard and complicated. I'm feeding large breed puppy food (science diet) and cooked chicken and sometimes fish (canned mackerel or sardines). What should I be feeding this large breed puppy and in what amounts. I've had some people tell me not to feed large breed puppy and some people say that is what it is for so that is what I should be feeding him. I am going to take some pictures soon so you guys can analyze him as best you can. He is about 14 weeks and at least 35 lbs. I haven't weighed him in about 3 weeks... but will this week. I'm really worried. I took him to the park this weekend for a few hours. We walked around for a few hours... not running and sometimes standing. He was so exhausted that night through the next day.[/quote] Abbusser, I do not think you are a stupid owner at all, you care, when unsure you ask questions, there is nothing wrong or stupid about that. I know it can be very very confusing especially when you get differeing opinions. I was told years and years ago take in all opinions and throw away the ones that sound odd. If your pup is growing OK on the food you are feeding him on, keep feeding it, but i would soon think about changing it to junior and when you do, add the junior in with the puppy food gradually. The only thing i will say is try to cut down on the length of exercise pup is getting at the moment, he is still only a baby. Roo :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 [quote name='K']To Roo, puppy feet are fine first thing in the morning!!! :) Now to bowl elevation... whilst feeding the bowl is elevated to 16" the maximum height of the stand but he has out grown it and has started to sit down to eat again I was told that this is a no-no...what do I do now ?...shall I get Hubby to weld an extension on the feed elevator to make it higher?...never had this advice years ago and Tara's bowls were always on the floor and she used to lay down to eat (lazy dog!)[/quote] it may shock you to learn the latest evidence shows that dogs fed from standing feeders have a higher incidence of bloat than ones fed on the floor IMO having the dog lie down to eat is the best bet - covers the elderly dog's neck issues and the bloat scenarios too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 [quote name='roo']I also think exersice (too much) has an awful lot to do with it too :lol: I think people like you who are involved in rescue and rehoming all deserve a medal, the emotional upset, the hard work and time that you all spend often goes by without a tiny bit of notice from the idiot breeders and often stupid owners. I know you are not in this country but thanks for caring :lol: What sort of numbers do you get through your hands a year? Roo[/quote] In a normal month I'd be fostering three new dogs a month - get near holidays or summer vacations it would go up. Often I just screen people and dogs and connect them directly (if already neutered or spayed) so there is no transition through my home. There are LOTS more danes than that needing help now and the club has picked up the slack finally - I've moved on to doing rescue with a smaller breed. Last two danes - well one took 1/3 of my husbands upper lip and left other facial scars and the other left a nice set of teeth marks in my arm - first dog had a skull fracture, cigarette burns and what looked like knife marks when he came in - second had been terrorizing a town for years before the owner dumped him at a shelter. Some dogs you win with and some you do not :-( Mostly I had wins though as its a rare dog I can't make come round eventually. But those rare ones DO exist and one should be aware of this when doing rescue. I always had expected to get bitten but never suspected my husband would be. Dog had a flashback near as we could figure as my husband did nothing incorrectly the dog just blew up from all the evidence. IMO ANYONE who is breeding and showing should be also doing rescue or contributing to the effort - helps keep you honest as a breeder I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 [quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='K']To Roo, puppy feet are fine first thing in the morning!!! :) Now to bowl elevation... whilst feeding the bowl is elevated to 16" the maximum height of the stand but he has out grown it and has started to sit down to eat again I was told that this is a no-no...what do I do now ?...shall I get Hubby to weld an extension on the feed elevator to make it higher?...never had this advice years ago and Tara's bowls were always on the floor and she used to lay down to eat (lazy dog!)[/quote] it may shock you to learn the latest evidence shows that dogs fed from standing feeders have a higher incidence of bloat than ones fed on the floor IMO having the dog lie down to eat is the best bet - covers the elderly dog's neck issues and the bloat scenarios too.[/quote] K I agree with guest here, i don't feed from a height, i feed from the floor. Years ago i always used to feed from a stand or a chair etc. But after reading the pros and cons i decided to feed from the floor, i have friends who still feed from stands, but again at the end of the day it is up to the individual. Roo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roo Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 [quote name='Anonymous'][quote name='roo']I also think exersice (too much) has an awful lot to do with it too :lol: I think people like you who are involved in rescue and rehoming all deserve a medal, the emotional upset, the hard work and time that you all spend often goes by without a tiny bit of notice from the idiot breeders and often stupid owners. I know you are not in this country but thanks for caring :lol: What sort of numbers do you get through your hands a year? Roo[/quote] In a normal month I'd be fostering three new dogs a month - get near holidays or summer vacations it would go up. Often I just screen people and dogs and connect them directly (if already neutered or spayed) so there is no transition through my home. There are LOTS more danes than that needing help now and the club has picked up the slack finally - I've moved on to doing rescue with a smaller breed. Last two danes - well one took 1/3 of my husbands upper lip and left other facial scars and the other left a nice set of teeth marks in my arm - first dog had a skull fracture, cigarette burns and what looked like knife marks when he came in - second had been terrorizing a town for years before the owner dumped him at a shelter. Some dogs you win with and some you do not :-( Mostly I had wins though as its a rare dog I can't make come round eventually. But those rare ones DO exist and one should be aware of this when doing rescue. I always had expected to get bitten but never suspected my husband would be. Dog had a flashback near as we could figure as my husband did nothing incorrectly the dog just blew up from all the evidence. IMO ANYONE who is breeding and showing should be also doing rescue or contributing to the effort - helps keep you honest as a breeder I think.[/quote] It is sad that some dogs just can't be helped, the trauma that they must have gone thru in their pathetic lives is often unthinkable. I agree that breeders should contribute in some way, If ever there is a problem with any of the dogs i have bred, they come home, they are evaluated and rehomed, i have only ever had 3 back, 2 of which i took back myself, the other one stayed with us untill we lost her last year, not that there was anything wrong with her, she just came home and stayed. in theUK some breed rescues have got it right, they have lists of people waiting already home checked etc for the dogs to come in. Others, on a few occasions i have tried to contact rescues for certain breeds for people i have either come into contact with or have been passed onto me, some just do not want to know and it takes about 20+ telephone calls to try to get someone in the breed to help, eventually you get someone, but that really is not good enough, ok i will continue trying for the person and the dog, but some people will make one call get the uninterested response and give up. My concern is what then happens to the poor dog. :( Roo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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