Canis erectus

*Having trouble submitting posts, I may have to post the rest of this at a later time*

So I humped it back home after a brief stop at the new house so that my stray could get a drink of water from the toilet. it was sometime after 3:30 when I got back to the house. I called Hannah's cell phone to have her pick me upand we'd go scour the other neighborhood, but she said she already had them and was driving around looking for me. Now hang on with me here because things are getting stranger. Here's the story Hannah told me: After dropping off the sander she came home to pick up the spare leash and then went to all of the immediate neighbors' to ask if they saw or heard anything. She then drove around for awhile (nobody she talked to saw them either) and then came back to the house to call the police. Cops said they had a report from someone who picked up two dogs and told her to check the pound because that's where the woman said she was taking them. Hannah got to the pound at about 3:00, just as the woman was trying to coax China out of her car so she could put her in a holding pen. This woman (who it turns out happens to be a frequent client at the clinic I work at) says that she came home at 1:00 and saw her next door neighbors trying to round up China (who would have none of that) while they had Zoey tied up in their yard. The woman knew something was wrong with that situation, and being her blessedly nosey self, sje atarted in on her neighbors trying to find out what was really going on. At one point they said that they found the girls running stray and tried to take them to the vet but they were closed. The woman asked if they were going to call animal control, to which they replied that they wouldn't and the dogs would find their own way home. Yet they had Zoey tied up in their yard while at the same time trying to catch China. :-?

For starters, I've not been around for a few weeks now, I've been busy and things have not been going smoothly. Hannah and I had to go to Maryland for a week and a half to sort through her mother's house (she died a year ago). That was 11 days of long-ass car rides, crazy baby-sitting duties, digging through dust and mouse poo, and getting chock full of ticks fleas and chiggers. All of this was in the middle of trying to close on our new house. Which we finally did 3 days ago, but not whithout some hellacious snags (which probably happens to every first time buyer, but that comforts me little). I still have a whole lot of work to do in the next couple weeks as far as working on the house and getting moved so I probably won't be regular here again for a little longer. So, to the point... My girls ended up missing today, and let me give you the details because I think something is fishy about the whole deal. My plan was to go over to the new house today to finish up sanding the floors. Hannah worked last night so she's be sleeping for the first part of the day and we had to have the rental sander back to Lowe's at 2:30. So the idea was for me to put Alina down for a nap at noon and then head to the new house to do what I needed to do there while Hannah and Alina were sleeping. I left at 12:30 after packing the car with some closet stuff to take to the new house. When Hannah finally showed up at the house at about 2:30 (late as usual) she asked me where the dogs were, thinking that I took them with me because she didn't see them when she got up. The girls are sometimes really good at blending into the background so I wasn't too concerned at first, all the same we loaded up the sander and swung by the old house just to double check. And sure enough, they weren't there. Now I was upset, and puzzled at the same time, I can't figure out how they got out and I know they were both there when I left. As usual Zoey asked to be let into the bedroom about mid-morning to take a nap (I keep the door shut while Hannah sleeps). And I had let China outside for a bit while Alina ate her lunch. When I went into the bedroom to get my boots and go I didn't take any notive as to whether or not Zoey was there, but I sure she was sleeping hidden away in the corner at the foot of the bed where she always does. I distinctly remember calling China into the house when I closed and locked the back door because I scowled at her when she looked at me as if she expected something to eat when I went into the fridge to grab a soda to take to the house with me. And then I left, I closed the front door, I always lock it without thinking about it so I can't say for certain whether I actually did or not. So then the dogs went missing sometime between 12:30 and 1:15 (when Hannah got up). Lacking anything better to do at the time, I sent Hannah to return the sander and then cruise the neighborhoods in the car while I grabbed the leashes and went out on foot. I left the backyard gate open and went down every street in a two block radius and no one that I talked to had seen them (which was strange because Zoey will always find people). After that I humped it over to the dog park to see if they may have decided to take themselves. Didn't find them there, but I did find someone else's dog just outside the park. He looked like he could be a Basset Hound/Husky-type mix and I couldn't find an owner for him so I snapped a leash on him and decided that I could leave him in my backyard and take him to the address on his tag later. On the way back to my house we came past a house whose family was picknicking on their front lawn, and so where their dogs. the dogs were unleashed and came over to cause a ruckus (yeesh, it never ends), and after the owner got them under control I ended up talking to the people. I told them I was looking for my dogs, a husky mix and a Borzoi mix, and of course they hadn't seem them. And then the grandma pipes up and just in passing says that she did see a shepherd and an afghan a little earlier in the afternoon. Close enough for me, and after giving a detailed description I was able to determin that those were my dogs, sighted somewhere around 1:00 and in a whole other part of town about 3 miles straight line from our house (and across a VERY busy 4 lane road).

I'm watching it too incidently. Not a very good looking Cat' in my opinion, seems a real shame that they're flashing a relatively pristine and not urban-friendly breed on a TV show. Wonder how many people are going to watch this and think "Wow, what a cool-looking dog. I should get one". BTW, there is a damn good looking Bulldog that's on this show.

Thanks for the info Irena. I too am not so terribely impressed with the males, I think when the time comes my descision will be based on what dogs are will be used to produce the litter. As far as breed recreations go, I have to keep in mind that some of our established breeds today are recreations. The two that come to mind right away are the irish Wolfhound and the Field Spaniel. It seems like the trend for many breeders today is to recreate the origional English Bulldog. Some of these dogs I've seen pictures of are nice looking (some are just damn ugly) but how can one expect to recreate a breed that wouldn't have had any sort of standard to begin with? I guess I should read more in depth on the Banter website but my guess would be that Banters didn't have a set breed standard either. Maybe I just don't care for these guys because it seems like everyone seems to be out to recreate one version of the Bulldog or another.

i don't feel sorry for the Lab owner a bit, sorry but that dumb turd-sucker deserves every lick of trouble and inconvienience those dogs cause him. Because it's his own damn fault any way you want to put it. He could have made sure he aquired dogs with parents who had sound temperments and conformation, and failing that he obviously didn't recognize a serious temperment issue and implement the proper training. Maybe the dogs were of sound parenting, but this guy failed horribly in basic training and socialization. Or he could have adopted the dogs who may have come from a bad environment and their aggresion isn't his fault, he still could have bought a couple of muzzles. Now, I'm not saying that it's unacceptable to have dog-aggressive dogs (nevermind the fact that these were Labs), these things happen sometimes, even to the best of dogs. But you do definately have to be in control of them, which this guy sounds like he doesn't have.

[quote name='FearedDogFan']That Pit Bull and that cropped Cane Corso look so similiar, it's totally amazing. :o I didn't realize they had that much in common. I like AmBulls. And Bull Boxers. Do Bull Boxers have much in common with these other breeds? Love the pics so much! Thanks for sharing. :wink:[/quote] Actually they don't have all that much in common except for some distant shared mastiff ancestor. Corso are of a definate mastiff conformation, if you look at Mei-Mei's pic and compare it to a Neopolitain or English Mastiff you'll see alot of similarities. Except for the ears, which on the cropped Corso are really the only similarity to the Pitbull pic, of course that's just my opinion and I have a trained eye for distinguishing animal morphology. Some Am. Bulldogs look obviously different from Pits, but those big mastiffy looking dogs are of the Johnson type. There's alot of variance in AB conformation mostly because there is no standard for conformation and there are severeal different breeding lines all with a different goal as to what the ideal Bulldog is, but even whithin the 'types' there's a good deal of conformation variance. Here's some more Bulldogs that kind of show the spectrum, the middle two pics are definately Johnson dogs, and probably the top one too though it's hard to tell. The bottom dog is definately a Scott's or some other type: [img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:YZiypxakQgIJ:americanbulldogsmn.tripod.com/sugar2001.jpg[/img] [img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:XbRyEQpVcuIJ:www.american-bulldog.ee/dutch4.jpg[/img] [img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:UbVw1xvhhi4J:www.americanbulldogkennels.com/images/Angus-at-10-months-pic-1.jpg[/img] [img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:EwepwHfA670J:www.newunderwood.k12.sd.us/images/american_bulldog.jpg[/img]

[quote name='AllAmericanPUP'] a cane corso looks much more like a pit bull than a bulldog does. either way you're going to have people calling your dog a pit bull because the JQ public is a bunch of morons :D and OMG look at this cutie..a bit far from you :lol: but he's gorgeous! [url]http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=3779014&adTarget=&SessionID=42f7757f05126bca-app1&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url][/quote] You think so? I guess that just shows how opinions differ. i think they look basically mastiff-ish, especially with uncropped ears. You're right though, that most uneducated people wouldn't be able able to tell the difference with either breed, I figured that someone who is a little less undeucated would be able to differentiate Corso from Pits.

[quote name='K'][b]Sorry I have to do it[/b] [url]http://www.petfinder.org/pet.cgi?action=2&pet=4851851&adTarget=&SessionID=42f74543315d8b46-app5&display=&preview=1&row=0&tmpl=&stat=[/url] You must at least agree to try Petfinder when the time comes![/quote] LOL, somehow I knew you would, and wouldn't have expected any less. I have actually been keeping an eye on adoptions, but that probably won't be a viable option for me. As much as I dislike puppy care, I feel that I definately need to get a male puppy. With my girls, especially China, I don't think I'd have much luck with bringing and adult dog home of a basically dominant breed. My girls also have their own 'unenforced' heirarchy dynamic that I want the new dog to pick up if possible. And then I also want it to form the strongest bond possible with my daughter, something alot more easily accomplished with a puppy. Trust me though, if an appropriate pup shows up on an adoption list I'd be all over it. Mei-Mei, I went with Corsos for a few reasons, one of them being the shedding factor. We had our list of possiblities down to Corsos, American Bulldogs, and Rotties. I eventually ruled out Rotts due to the commonality factor and the problems associated with a popular breed. We finally ruled out Bulldogs because (and I hate to admit this) I don't won't to deal with any of the stigmas associated with a Pitbull look-alike.

[quote name='Lucky Chaos']I don't see any titles on the dogs, maybe they're just not listed. They say they do health testing, though checking the OFA database only one of their females is listed. None of the others have OFA scores on their pages either, whihc I would then assume means they arn't checked. I don't know, send them an email and ask why they don't have titles (aside from GCG's) or OFA scores?[/quote] Good point LC, I'll have to look further into that. Good thing I have plenty of time for research. I'm pretty sure hips and elbows are the only common problem with this breed (also cherry eye I think). I didn't note where they only give a year on OFA's, which would be pointless. Does OFA even accept a registry on dogs less than 2? I guess the answere is yes, but that would seem foolish on their part. Mayhaps why they don't have OFA scores posted.

We've decided on our next dog. I found this Corso breeder, and they seem to look pretty ethical to me, of course I realize that what's on the web site may not reflect real life, but it all appears to look good so far. [url]http://crestwoodscorsos.com/[/url] Seems like everything is in order with these guys, and they're only a couple hours away from us, so we'll be able to pay them a visit and check them out in person. It's still going to be awhile before we get a new dog, I want Alina to be at least three and a half or four before bringing a puppy into the house. I kinda feel like I'm jumping the gun with the news, but I was pretty stoked at finding this breeder and felt like sharing. So I'm hoping to contact these folks and pay them a visit before the winter arrives, but we have some buisiness to take care of in Maryland pretty soon and right after that we'll be (hopefully) moving into a new house, so it I may not get out there until next spring. Anyhow, if anyone sees anything that doesn't seem quite right, let me know as this will be my first time dealing with a breeder for a dog.

Good luck with Fritz when you hit the vet tomorrow, I just hope it's not a cruciate tear.

Phew, I would have immediately assumed the worse myself!

Zoey's the smart one at my house, and sneaky to boot. Last week while I was at work Hannah said that she went out to do some yard work when at one point she went out through the gate to get the hose from the front of the house. When she came back through for some reason she swung the gate into place but didn't swing the latch down. Apparantly Zoey (who is always on the lookout to escape and run free) had noted that the gate latch didn't close and when Hannah let the dogs out Zoet charged strait for the gate instead of running to the back of the yard like they both always do. So yeah, Zoey got out, but luckily enough Hannah spotted a bunch of kids down the street and true to nature Zoey had found them and packed up with them.

I don't do tennis balls anymore. It takes China all of 30 seconds to pop one and start manicly peeling and eating the fuzz off of them. Zoey tends to be more gentle with them and won't destroy an intact ball, but she does get ahold of China's broken tennis balls and proceeds to eat the rubber pieces. :-?

An ear notch is great way to identify at a glance the spay/neuter status of stray and feral cats which in my opinion are by far the greatest contributers to the cat over-population problem. Only problem is that alot of those guys might have incidental notches cause by some injury. I can't say that if I were a cat owner that I'd want a nick out of my pet's ear either. Tattoos sound good for indoor pets (IMO where all cats belong), maybe with ear notches or tags for the strays. All in all sounds like a good plan, and as bad as the dog over-population problem is, it's ten times worse with cats.

China's not so touchy feely, she loves to have her neck rubbed or behind her ears scratched though. She'll put up with having her back, stomache, rump, etc. scratched but it obviously makes her uncomfortable, strangers are not allowed to pet her anywhere but her head but we're starting to slowly get better about that. Oddly enough China does love being brushed out, doesn't matter where. Zoey loves to be scratched anywhere and any time. Her all time favorite is to have her thighs scratched, all the better if it's a really good friction scratch, fingernails also make it better. If you scratch her thighs while she's lying down, she'll turn over on her back, tuck her front legs in and throw her head straight outward, and then she stretches her rear legs straight out as far as she can stretch them.

[quote name='JackieMaya']I'm with Lucky Chaos. Since you brought the coon in, shouldn't they be able to test it for rabies so that Free can go home?[/quote] I believe that rabies testing is too expensive for most animal control departments to do on a whim. They'd do it if there were a human involved, but for a dog quarantine is the simplest and most economical option. Courtnek, that's a bummer but I'm sure Free will be OK, aside from some temporary home-sickness. Racoons are nasty, they'll sometimes kill a dog much larger than themselves, if I had a gun I'd probably do the same. Seeing as how I don't have a gun, I would've sent the other dog out on it, which may not be popular with some of you, but my policy is that if one dog gets into a tangle it's chances are better if there are one or more dogs backing it up.

I've only had one real b*tch fight with my girls. That was a couple years ago and I'm still not really sure what started it. I was sitting on the couch with China lying down nearby, and I guess Zoey got too big for her britches because she came along standing real tall, and that's when they had at it. I scooped my boot off the floor and threw it at them, couldn't have planned it any better because it bounced off the top of both their heads. The funny part was after that neither one of them would be caught dead in the same room with the other for about a week. Haven't had any more fights since then.

Ravyn, I was able to find this with a quick search ---> [url]http://www.ou.edu/wanglab/FreemanWangEER.pdf[/url] I wasn't in the mood to do much more than skim through it, but does have some interesting information about plant hybridization.

First I'm going to appologize for taking the thread off the original subject. Also, I'll see if I can dig up some info sources for you Ravyn, but to be frank, I'm a learned man and I've read more books, articles, essays, etc. than I'll ever remember. Now as far as dogs' relative zoolocial placement is concerned I should have stated that this is my theory, though I'm sure there are others who have come up with the same conclusion. Basically just because there isn't a zoologist in the world inane enough to tackle and debate the species relativity of various dog breeds doesn't mean that they aren't genetically different enough to at least be sub-specific to eachother. We already know that each breed has a distinct genetic mapping, but from what I know about zoology there isn't reason enough for anyone to devote the proper time for proper species classification. The major reason for that being that dogs (Canis familiaris) being a domesticated animal have no "natural" relation or impact on "natural" species or habitats. There are some zoologists/archeologists who are attemping to uncover the ancient evolutionary history of dogs in general but that isn't very pertinent to the relationship between modern dogs and other canids. I also believe humans belong in seperate sub-specific classifications, but I have yet to hear anyone crazy enough to want to tackle that sordid mess, the implications of which I'm not even going to get into. Here's something else to think about. It's generally well though of as modern domestic dogs being primarily decended from European and Asian wolves. A selctive breeding process began (both naturally and man-made) and dogs began to vary from the origional type, eventually becoming Canis familiaris. At what point exactly did that occur? Who can say but if by those guidelines dogs can be considered a different species than wolves, why isn't one breed of dog considered zoologically different from another given that same selective breeding process? What happens when you hybridize a wolf with a GSD and conform it into a breed standard (e.g. Saarloos Wolfdog)? Is it a wolf (Canis lupus)? No. Is it a dog? It's generally considered so, but how can an animal bred from two converging species still be classified as Canis familiaris? OK, wow this has already become way more involving than I wanted it to be. :D With regard to hybrids, yes they are typically sterile. However most of those are man made hybrids and are of animals with a resonably wide genetic divergence. In a natural ecology hybridization usually occurs within the sub-specific level or with species that have a narrow genetic gap. In my opinion, too big of a species gap just causes some 'crossed wiring' and genetically weaker offspring (there's probably some studies done on this theory but I don't know). Just because two animals are equines doesn't mean that they share a close enough branch on the evolutionary tree to produce genetically sound offspring. If you want to find some research on the effects of natural hybridization look for Speckled Kingsnakes (Lampropeltis getula (hollbrookii?)) and Florida Kingsnakes (Lampropeltis getula floridana). Those are the two that come off the top of my head that there have been at least some research on. Also a good place to look would in flora, which is probably where hybridization occurs most commonly, both naturally and in man-made situations.

On the subject of mixed vs. purebred dogs my feeling is that mixed breeds have a lesser tendancy to develop congenital health problems than pure breds. They can certainly still get all the same problems a pure bred can but I do believe they are less prone to it, due primarily to the hybrid vigor theory. While mixed breeds are nor technically hybrids, they do differ morphologically and genetically enough that they should be classified as seperate sub species at the least, so hybrid vigor still applies. Basically a hybrid tends to be greater then the sum of the parents, nature just seems to have a way of making the best of what genetic material it has to work with and is partially why a hybrid often displaces both parent species in the wild. Though it is worth noting that you can still sometimes get the worst of both parents depending what reccessive genetic and behavioral traits are in the parents. The reason for the modern purebred dogs having so many health problems is do to irresponsible breeding. Breeders who fail fail to recognize and cull dogs with health or behavioral problems only add to the groeing list of problems for a breed. Over the centuries (primarily over the last 30 or 50 years or so probably) maligned inheritable traits have accumulated in many different breeds, so much so that for some breeds (GSD's for example) it's difficult for even the most responsible breeder to produce sound dogs. With all that said (I'm sure most of you already know all of that anyway) I think that it's a common misconception that if you get a mixed breed dog that it won't have the health problems a pure bred does. I've seen many people disappointed with that misconception, because while a mix may be less prone to problems you can't rely on that.

Zoey's a leaner too, as well as a lap dog. When I'm sitting on the couch or floor she'll start out inoccently enough and just stand next to me to be pet. Then she starting leaning against me heavier and heavier until she finally ends up laying across me. Zoey also likes to do somersaults into my lap. She starts by planting her head into my stomach, and then lets herself slide downward until she's done a slow motion front flip into my lap.

[quote name='courtnek']ok now this is BAD, but I may have resolved the issue. the guy showed up at the door, demanding to see Kyle...on a hunch I said "he's cleaning up your mess, get off my property..." and he said the ONE thing that will always tick me off...."MAKE ME...." OK, you asked for it....went and got my pistol, (unloaded) showed up at the door and asked, very politely, "Which knee you willing to lose?" He freaked out, jumped in his car, and left. Kyle is still laughing... :oops: :oops:[/quote] Heheh... I would've given a year's salary to see that. :D

Well, if it were my grandpa, I'd just sell him to some overseas electronics sweatshop... :roll: