JudyHoffman

I may misunderstand, so please be patient. Are you saying that you would breed a litter and keep all the puppies (not sell them) and then breed those puppies back to each other to improve your bloodlines? Wouldn't this be considered inbreeding or linebreeding and if so, wouldn't that cause severe genetic problems with any offspring eventually? I think over time you would be causing more harm to your bloodlines than good and not it's not very ethical IMVHO. I heard of a Belgian Sheepdog breeder who did this very same thing with 4 littermates. Her goal was to have a 10 generation pedigree just off of the original 4 dogs ...... I believe the results were so disastrous health wise, she never bred or had another dog again. [quote]9 times out of 10 a free dog/puppy is a mistreated dog/puppy.[/quote] If this is true then the breeder is somewhat responsible for what happens to the pup. It is up to the breeder to conduct a thorough screening and reference checking before placing a pup, whether free or not.

Possibly because of something lacking in his diet or the food he is eating contains so much junk that his body isn't digesting it properly. I would switch to a better quality food.

I second what Vertigo World asked, but in answer to your question, around day 51 after mating. There is nothing you can do in the meantime except wait.

Thank you Naomi, yes I know Etsuko, at least via the internet and I know the breeder of Cuan. He's very nice.

Kira, the mother and Matriarch of the Group. [img]http://images.snapfish.com/33%3B%3C28%3A723232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E2336%3D436%3D787%3DXROQDF%3E232365%3A4%3B%3A273ot1lsi[/img] The Happy Mom & Babies [img]http://images.snapfish.com/33%3B%3C28%3A723232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E2336%3D436%3D787%3DXROQDF%3E232365%3A4%3B9535ot1lsi[/img]

No, if I understand the question (I don't show, but attend and help show clubs). The Belgians are all classified as a herding breed. So in the Group Pull in AKC, you will have The Belgian Groenendael, The Belgian Tervuren and The Belgian Malinois. They compete against each other along with all the other classified herding breeds. To get to Group, they need to win their Breed. So you will have a group of Malinois competing for Best of Breed, a group of Groenendaels competing and Tervs doing the same. Then the winner of those breeds would go to the group. Clear as mud now? :P The Laekenois is not recognized by the AKC so they do not compete in AKC events. In Canada, they compete as one breed ........ Groenendals, Tervs, Mals and Laekens all competing for Best of Breed then that winner going to the group. The Laekens are recognized by the Canadian Kennel Club.

Not in the US that I am aware of, but then again the individual township you live in may have their own set of laws regarding dog breeding.

Malamum, I'm sorry! I've had these dogs for so long, their silly "nicknames" stick after awhile The sheepdog = Belgian Groenendael (Black Dog) Tervlettes = Belgian Tervuren Puppies :-? :D :o

Here is a picture of Kira's great great great great Grandsire. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/gsdbcstber/REMultiCHGrimmvandeHogeLaerB.jpg[/img] He is quite a handsome fellow. He is around 11 years old in this picture I believe.

In every country in the world, except for the US (or AKC) the breed variations are separated into 3 categories. The Belgian Groenendael (the long coated Black Variety or Sheepdog) The Belgian Tervuren (the long coated Red/Black, Fawn Black, Mahogany/Black) The Belgian Malinois (the short coated variety coming in either red, fawn or mahogany) The AKC does not recognize the Belgian Laekenois (the wire coated variety with the same markings). Worldwide, all varieties are known as the Belgian Shepherd Dog except here in the US. Kira is a Belgian Sheepdog bred in Finland, but in her 7th generation has a Belgian Tervuren in her pedigree. This dog is Grimm van de Hoge Laer. Jack is a UKC registered Belgian Shepherd dog, as his Father was a Belgian Tervuren and his mother is a Belgian Sheepdog. Therefore, he could not be registered with the AKC but only the UKC. Jack also has Grimm van de Hoge Laer in his pedigree, 5 generations back. Until 1958, all Belgian, irregardless of variety (coat & color) were all considered one breed until a group of very zealous Black Dog owners lobbied the AKC and had the variations included in the standard. They changed the standard for each dog (minimally to justify the separating of the coat variations). I hope to be able to post pictures tomorrow. All the pups are thriving and I think I have 2 red Terlettes and 3 Fawn Terlettes. I'll post a picture of Grimm, a great ancestor of these puppies. OK, so now is this as clear as mud :oops: :D :roll:

Yesterday, Kira delivered 7 healthy Belgian Shepherd puppies. 2 Belgian Groenendael and 5 Belgian Tervuren. 6 girls in all and 1 boy. The boy is a sheepdog and the girls are 1 sheepdog and 5 Tervlettes. All are healthy and thriving as of today.

I guess my big question here is why would you pay $$$ for a pure bred mix? You paid money for a mix breed? As a breeder of pure bred Belgian Sheepdogs, I charge for my puppies and very reasonable too. The money is receive pays for high quality food, xrays for the adult dogs, dog toys etc. Again, I have to ask ....... you paid money for a mix breed? What sort of guarantees did you get from this person about your pup?

I'll take a smart dog that is stubborn. It's always challenging to figure out what makes them tick, what makes them train. I have a female Belgian Sheepdog puppy that is like that. She is very stubborn and very smart. To add insult to injury, she is very confident which adds a 3rd problem to her training process. She actually won't work for you unless you are doing something she likes to do :P We are starting agility on Sunday to give her an outlet for all that intelligence.

Exactly how did he move her? Did he hurt her? Break the skin? Use his mouth? I think to get an honest opinion from folks you'll need to provide more details. My assumption only is that if you removed the dog to your mothers it's more serious than you are saying in this post.

....... and I had just the opposite happen. The GL worked wonders with my Belgian Sheepdog puppy (15 months) and the prong just made him hate going for walks and training. I guess it all depends on the dog and the trainer and the technique used.